Beta 57, 58 - bad vox mics or worst vox mics

[steelyfan]

Originally Posted by vernier

Yea, some people hear with their ears, others with their eyes.

[brrecording]

i quite like the beta 57 on vocals, they really suit the singer of the band i tour with and give his voice alot more clarity than the sm. Never have many problems with feedback with them at all tbh. As long as i ring out the system before soundcheck there is very rarely any hassle with anything.
I dont like the beta 58 tho, it sounds too "fizzy" to my ears, there's just something going on in the high end i dont like but the beta 57 is all cool. not on snare's tho, the sm57 kicks its ass on snate drums

Pete

[CAMGRec]

Originally Posted by mexicola

I have to laugh when touring bands come through with Beta 57's and 58's for vocals and end up hacking the graphs to bits and fighting feedback all night long. We had a very well known indie rock band last night, and their monitor engineer had the graphs hacked up so much that they looked like pics of the Swiss Alps.

I agree with all of that except I don't end up laughing much. Feedback makes me cranky

I have come to loathe the B58 - especially in monitor world.

Wedge placement does seem to be a big factor - I've gotten a B58 to quiet down by moving wedges a few inches or so.

B57s don't seem as bad.

[mexicola]

Originally Posted by xmostynx

what would you do instead lower your high end on a pa?

How big of a PA are we talking about? If it's a couple speakers on sticks, then do whatever you gotta do. If it's a real PA for a venue, then the goal is to be able to run everything flat.
You'll need to run white noise through the system and reference the sound in the room with an RTA mic and some kind of RTA software. You're looking for any large dips or spikes in frequency.
Having too much high end is the same as having not enough low end. Get some more powerful amps for your lows and maybe some more sub drivers. We did that a few years back at my venue, and it not only calmed the room down in terms of high frequencies, but it also created quite a bit more headroom, since sub amps have to work harder than any of the other amps (mids or highs).

[rogerbrain]

Originally Posted by Aaron Miller

Wait a minute. Your reasoning goes something like this: some band brings in their own monitor engineer and the graphic EQ ends up all over the place and there is lots of feedback therefore the Betas suck. I don't follow. Feedback and hacked up graphic EQs happen with regular 57s and 58s all the time. The problem is placement, the overall setup, the singer, or the guy running the mix.

have to agree on this one.. the beta requires monitors to be off rear axis 60 dgrees. so if a stage is set up for SM58 there WILL be problems at higher SPL.

I have and use both. personally I got used to the pattern on an SM58 YEARS ago and do not have to think when i use one. the Beta 58, being hypercardiod, is hard for me to stay in the right spot and the proximity effect is toooo much for me

.. if I had started using a Beta 40 years ago I would be saying the same thing about it.

I will also say that, in general, I don't prefer the sound of a hyper or super cardioid mic, I think most of them sound a bit boxey, BUT, they were developed to address specific problems/issues ... as were cardioid mics. Truth be told I really prefer the sound of an omni... but they don't seem to work for me live.

[digitrax]

Hey man, U2's Pride (In The Name of Love) was recorded with an SM57 and it's --- oh wait... you said Beta 57? Never mind. They suck.

[philw44]

I don't think there is a specific vocal microphone that is in anyway 'better' than another.

Some suit certain voices, some don't!

This is my opinion of all the vocal mics we have at our venue:

Beta 57: Great for deep or flat sounding vocals. Falls apart on anything that is nasal or more trebly.

SM58: A good all rounder and usually the best starting point.

Sennheiser E845: Totally the opposite to the Beta 57. < Alto voices sound muddy and dull. But thin or harsh vocals are nicely rouned.

[digitrax]

Originally Posted by philw44

I don't think there is a specific vocal microphone that is in anyway 'better' than another.

Some suit certain voices, some don't!

This is my opinion of all the vocal mics we have at our venue:

Beta 57: Great for deep or flat sounding vocals. Falls apart on anything that is nasal or more trebly.

SM58: A good all rounder and usually the best starting point.

Sennheiser E845: Totally the opposite to the Beta 57. < Alto voices sound muddy and dull. But thin or harsh vocals are nicely rouned.

I totally agree with you where feedback is not an issue. Live on stage with wedges, however, some are easier to work with than ohters. Not talking sonics here, just what works well w/minimal time and effort. I find that Betas don't.

[mexicola]

Originally Posted by rogerbrain

have to agree on this one.. the beta requires monitors to be off rear axis 60 dgrees. so if a stage is set up for SM58 there WILL be problems at higher SPL.

I run biamped mixes with dual wedges that are angled in at roughly 60 degrees on each side. I try to aim the horns of the wedges in the spot between the front and rear lobes of the beta's hypercardioid pattern, where it should be rejecting sound. Even with this setup, the beta's are more susceptible to feedback than a SM58.
And you can move the wedges around all day long and fine tune their placement as much as you like, you can even aim them so they're not pointing at the mic/singer at all, but at the end of the day a standard 58 is gonna be easier to work with.

[88fingerz]

Absolutely fantasticaly surprising male vocal chain:

Beta58 into Apogee Mini Me!

Last night I had a singer/songwriter in and he wanted to play the piano & sing a few tunes into my DAW for future work we'll do. I set him up fast with this combo (the U87 is in the booth, where the piano wont fit)....he insisted on not using it (the 87) for this...just wanted a cheapo dynamic for his vox....we were Both floored at the reults!

Try & Die!!!

[mexicola]

Originally Posted by 88fingerz

Absolutely fantasticaly surprising male vocal chain:

Beta58 into Apogee Mini Me!

Last night I had a singer/songwriter in and he wanted to play the piano & sing a few tunes into my DAW for future work we'll do. I set him up fast with this combo (the U87 is in the booth, where the piano wont fit)....he insisted on not using it (the 87) for this...just wanted a cheapo dynamic for his vox....we were Both floored at the reults!

Try & Die!!!

Glad you got a good sound while recording, but the whole point of this thread was the horrible feedback issues when using beta mics for live sound.

[fallforward]

Personally, I use a Beta57 as my first choice for live vocal mic, or I have a sm57 that I will use if I am having feedback issues. I love the way my beta57 sounds on my voice, and the sm57 sounds pretty good too. I have 4 of them in my studio and I have a favorite. I would implore anyone that own multiples of mics to do some double blind testing with them to find your favorite one. I also like the low profile of the 57's compared to any other hand held mic.

On other people I love the Audix 0M5, especially when there are feedback issues.

Use what you like!
Robby

[Geese]

Originally Posted by steelyfan

Bad sounds coming from a Beta 58 is usually due to user error. Most underated mic in history due to gear snobbery and non ellitist affordable price.(only the pricey stuff sounds good syndrome).

Agreed. I have to wonder how many here have toured extensively or owned and operated pro quality systems for extended lengths of time.

[cdrumeller]

the senn. e835 is really worth a try in replacing the beta. clear and durable sound. cheep too.

[Eskimo Brain]

fwiw, I just saw Annie Clark (aka St Vincent) play a mid-sized sold-out venue in Brooklyn. I'd seen her a bunch of times before, but her voice sounded unbelievably good last night -- clear, airy, and lush. I went to check and lo - she was using a beta 58. Own engineer, in-ear monitors and no problems whatsoever - with a loud band behind her. A fantastic show, btw - and the sound was nearly perfect.