how can i get "FREE AS A BIRD-BEATLES" mix?

[Taj]

Hi there

im songwriter and at present im recording my songs in my home studio.Personally i love the Beatles and especially the mix on FREE AS A BIRD from their Anthology album.Im trying to chase that sound and i know its a far fetch thing to acheive in a small setup like mine but nevertheless I'd be very glad if you all could give me an sight about some of these queries:


My setup includes a 2 channel M AUDIO AUDIOPHILE 24 BIT/96 HZ soundcard and i run my instruments + mic(SM57,CAD gxl 2400)through a 2 channel M AUDIO AUDIOBUDDY PREAMP.I use Acid pro4.0 and cubase to record and mix with plug-ins like PSP compressor,Wintage Warmer and Sony EQ.I know that these are very basic things to start off with and i cant really expect to get a Hi-end mix with these.Heres a link to a clip to my 1st foray into recording( its a 25 sec sample,i recorded this using a cheap JVC mic):

http://rapidshare.de/files/4081337/2...ample.wav.html


Queries:
1)how would it differ if 3 backing vocalists stand around 1 mic and get recorded together than to record them on different tracks?

2)to get that "free as a bird sound",is it feasible to record on 96hz/24 bit or something lower like 44.1 hz/16 bit since ive noticed that there are too many highs in 96hz than 44.1 hz.

3)if i do record all the tracks(Vocals,Guitars,Drums,keys)in 96/24 bit-whats a good way to eq the highs out?

4)what is the a time tested chain?-compression and then eq or the other way around?

5)how do i let different parts from not letting them get into each others way?(eq,reverb,compress)?

6)one final query-if anyone knows how did Daniel Lanois get THAT sound in Dylans-Time out of my mind?i just love the room sound in the recording.


Id very grateful to anyone out there if you could help me out with some tips on mixing and tracking since im totally new into recording.

thanks a ton

TAJ

[doorknocker]

Here's a few suggestions for getting the 'Free as a bird' sound:

1. Contact Mrs. Ono-Lennon and ask her if she has any old tapes of John playing around at home and trying out new tunes. Preferably warbled cassettes, the more hiss the better, it should be a challenge after all.
Be sure to clear the copyright/publishing situation first but that should be peanuts. Bring along a lawyer just in case, though.

2. Contact Jeff Lynne, hint: Richard Dodd was a guest moderator here a while ago and I'm sure that he has his phone number. Ask for a 'special unsigned artist rate' (supposing that's what you are)
Ask him to 'go for that Beatles sound'. He CAN do it. I'm sure he'll help with the backing vocals too. Don't settle for the obvious though, he needs to be challenged so don't be shy!

3. Contact Paul Mc Cartney and ask him about lending out his Bill Black upright bass, it's the one used for 'Heartbreak Hotel', Paul got it for his birthday and used it on FAAB. Well, I'm sure Paul won't mind lending you his Höfner too, just be sure not to mess up the setlist from Candlestick park that I believe is still attached to the side of the bass.
Work thru a few Beatles tunes and pay special attention to the bass. That should give you some clues.

4. Contact Geoff Emerick, again ask for a 'unsigned artist deal'. Well, it COULD be a bit of a Catch-22, but casual mention of your dealings with Mc Cartney might build up some trust.
Well, I don't know about Geoff's availability but I'm sure he'd give you some pointers. When you call him, don't mess around and get straight to the point though.
Now you're on the way. Dunno what Ringo's up to these days but finding some loops should be a piece of cake.

That leaves singing and guitar work. Not much can be done about George Harrison I'm afraid but maybe taking up sitar for 15 years or so and experimenting with differnt slides might get you or your fellow guitar player there.

Don't know much about '96hz/24 bit or something lower like 44.1 hz/16 bits' but I'm sure a fellow Gearslutz will chime in.

But following my suggestions, you should have the basics covered. And like they say, it's all about the source. So don't worry!

Andi

www.doorknocker.ch

[Kestral]

http://www.face-the-music.de/beatle_e.html

http://www.musicplayer.com/cgi-bin/u...3;t=006840;p=0

Short "what gear to get" answer (talent not included):

- Chandler TG2 preamp
http://www.mercenary.com/chtg2preamp.html

- Chandler TG1 compresssor
http://www.mercenary.com/chtg1li.html

- Neumann U47 (vintage long body chrome top)

[Jay Kahrs]

Originally Posted by doorknocker

Here's a few suggestions for getting the 'Free as a bird' sound:

1. Contact Mrs. Ono-Lennon and ask her if she has any old tapes of John playing around at home and trying out new tunes. Preferably warbled cassettes, the more hiss the better, it should be a challenge after all.
Be sure to clear the copyright/publishing situation first but that should be peanuts. Bring along a lawyer just in case, though.

2. Contact Jeff Lynne, hint: Richard Dodd was a guest moderator here a while ago and I'm sure that he has his phone number. Ask for a 'special unsigned artist rate' (supposing that's what you are)
Ask him to 'go for that Beatles sound'. He CAN do it. I'm sure he'll help with the backing vocals too. Don't settle for the obvious though, he needs to be challenged so don't be shy!

3. Contact Paul Mc Cartney and ask him about lending out his Bill Black upright bass, it's the one used for 'Heartbreak Hotel', Paul got it for his birthday and used it on FAAB. Well, I'm sure Paul won't mind lending you his Höfner too, just be sure not to mess up the setlist from Candlestick park that I believe is still attached to the side of the bass.
Work thru a few Beatles tunes and pay special attention to the bass. That should give you some clues.

4. Contact Geoff Emerick, again ask for a 'unsigned artist deal'. Well, it COULD be a bit of a Catch-22, but casual mention of your dealings with Mc Cartney might build up some trust.
Well, I don't know about Geoff's availability but I'm sure he'd give you some pointers. When you call him, don't mess around and get straight to the point though.
Now you're on the way. Dunno what Ringo's up to these days but finding some loops should be a piece of cake.

That leaves singing and guitar work. Not much can be done about George Harrison I'm afraid but maybe taking up sitar for 15 years or so and experimenting with differnt slides might get you or your fellow guitar player there.

Don't know much about '96hz/24 bit or something lower like 44.1 hz/16 bits' but I'm sure a fellow Gearslutz will chime in.

But following my suggestions, you should have the basics covered. And like the say, it's all about the source. So don't worry!

Andi

www.doorknocker.ch

HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!

You SUCK!!!

I gotta wipe the orange juice off the monitor and keyboard now.

It's sooooooo true.

I have a bootleg of that Lennon recording around here and yeah...they pulled the vocal and piano off a really hissy warbly cassette demo.

Quite amazing when you compare that to the end result.

[doorknocker]

ALL CLEAR!

READING OF THE FOLLOWING POST WILL MOST LIKELY NOT RESULT IN ACTIONS THAT WILL DO HARM TO YOUR COMPUTER SCREEN OR KEYBOARD!


Yip, I DO love what they've achieved there. The George Harrison guitar break is insane, the man was a master!

Andi

www.doorknocker.ch

[wallace]

Yeah, see if someone can elaborate on the Richard Dodd information about recording drums. It sounded like those songs were recorded on a Neve desk, but maybe I'm wrong. Does anybody know?

If you record all the voices on one track as opposed to mulitracking them, you might get a more coheisive sound, at least with the performance. You can double that track and with another 3 voices (tracks 6 voices total) and then pan it a bit.

[warhead]

Originally Posted by Taj

Queries:
1)how would it differ if 3 backing vocalists stand around 1 mic and get recorded together than to record them on different tracks?

Well you can do this, but if their levels aren't perfect during the mix you can't bring the one guy down who's too loud.

War

[largeunit]

Welcome back Walters!

[daede]

Well you can do this, but if their levels aren't perfect during the mix you can't bring the one guy down who's too loud.

Dear god... you mean... they might have to... blend?!

If you want to stick to the Beatles method, you may just have to do just that.

[echorec]

Originally Posted by largeunit

Welcome back Walters!

I don´t think it´s Walters. Just a newbie with some innocent questions.

[Jay Kahrs]

Originally Posted by warhead

Well you can do this, but if their levels aren't perfect during the mix you can't bring the one guy down who's too loud.

And the problem with that is?

If it's that bad you can always retrack it...or spend a bit more time getting them to blend BEFORE you record it.

[Taj]

Originally Posted by Kestral

http://www.face-the-music.de/beatle_e.html

http://www.musicplayer.com/cgi-bin/u...3;t=006840;p=0

Short "what gear to get" answer (talent not included):

- Chandler TG2 preamp
http://www.mercenary.com/chtg2preamp.html

- Chandler TG1 compresssor
http://www.mercenary.com/chtg1li.html

- Neumann U47 (vintage long body chrome top)

Hey Kestral

thx a lot for the articles on beatles.very informative.i wish that sound could be attainable without spending a fortune on those gear.
i only wonder what they would sound like if they were around now.they were always ahead of their times man.

if u guys have the time,plz chk this 25 sec sample which i rec. using a cheap jvc mic.
http://rapidshare.de/files/4081337/2...ample.wav.html


do you also know about any links on tips on mixing ....
and thx to all those tips on the bk vox.



cheers

Taj

[jackinthebox]

Originally Posted by Taj

Hey Kestral

thx a lot for the articles on beatles.very informative.i wish that sound could be attainable without spending a fortune on those gear.
i only wonder what they would sound like if they were around now.they were always ahead of their times man.

if u guys have the time,plz chk this 25 sec sample which i rec. using a cheap jvc mic.
http://rapidshare.de/files/4081337/2...ample.wav.html


do you also know about any links on tips on mixing ....
and thx to all those tips on the bk vox.



cheers

Taj

Use the fairchild settings on your psp compressor, experiment the different settings and use the tape track normal setting on your vintage warmer. i find this gives you a bit vintage vibe and you get a bit of tonal eq control on the warmer. if you can get a decent emt 150 plate reverb emulation it will probably help too. It's a lot more complicated than this but it will get you in that direction.
hope things helps.
J

[Jack P]

Originally Posted by wallace

Yeah, see if someone can elaborate on the Richard Dodd information about recording drums. It sounded like those songs were recorded on a Neve desk, but maybe I'm wrong. Does anybody know?

If you record all the voices on one track as opposed to mulitracking them, you might get a more coheisive sound, at least with the performance. You can double that track and with another 3 voices (tracks 6 voices total) and then pan it a bit.

There is an extras section on the Beatles Anthology DVD which has film & commentry of the making of Free as a Bird with a Neve 8078 console in the studio & a few pultecs & a Fairchild.

[tomdarude]

a TG2 pre, TG1comp, U47; a DAW+m-audio cards won´t give you anything of that sound !!!

no f**king way, you´re even coming near the beatles sound....it´ll take alot more....of experience, engineering, arrangment,playing AND much more gear (instruments!!, room) to even get into the ballpark....


sorry but this might be the only true answer.....


modern technique has come a long way...and it´s wonderful times to be an artist/producer/engineer today with all that´s available.......but there´s still no magic box invented, whatever all those adds are telling you.

btw. okay.....a TG1 Comp might just help a little on the way.....great box

[peeceebee]

On "free as a bird", it sounds as if the drums were slowed down...

[Taj]

Originally Posted by owl

Use the fairchild settings on your psp compressor, experiment the different settings and use the tape track normal setting on your vintage warmer. i find this gives you a bit vintage vibe and you get a bit of tonal eq control on the warmer. if you can get a decent emt 150 plate reverb emulation it will probably help too. It's a lot more complicated than this but it will get you in that direction.
hope things helps.
J

Hey there

its quite a surprise that this post has been restarted after a year.Thanks a ton for the info.Il definitely look into it and hey tom-i know what u mean that nothing can replace talent and songwriting skills with an m-audio card and a mere computer but dude -we are all trying ....
ill be putting up my songs on myspace soon and would love you all to hear them

untill then
peace and trees

[John The Cut]

Originally Posted by tomdarude

a TG2 pre, TG1comp, U47; a DAW+m-audio cards won´t give you anything of that sound !!!

no f**king way, you´re even coming near the beatles sound....it´ll take alot more....of experience, engineering, arrangment,playing AND much more gear (instruments!!, room) to even get into the ballpark....


sorry but this might be the only true answer.....


modern technique has come a long way...and it´s wonderful times to be an artist/producer/engineer today with all that´s available.......but there´s still no magic box invented, whatever all those adds are telling you.

btw. okay.....a TG1 Comp might just help a little on the way.....great box

I dont know.. there's nothing that amazing on 'Free As A Bird' - like someone has said - vocals recorded on cassette, piano on cassette, drums very basic and could definately be achieved with samples and a compressor.

Its not going to be THE Beatles, but the dude can get close.

My advice would be to dirty everything up, and compress heavily.

If you sound like John Lennon, thast a bonus

[uk03878]

Mono cassette -> PC -> Noise Reduction Software -> DAT

McCartney - Oberheim OBX8 for pad
McCartney - Wal 5 string bass - DI and Mesa Boogie
McCartney - Gibson Jumbo Acoustic
Harrison - Martin Acoustic
Harrison - 60s Strat for slide
Harrisom - Early 90s Clapton Lace Sensor Strat
Harrison - McLaren Amp (yes the car people - it came free with the car - possibly Fender inside)
Ringo - Ludwig Drums

Desk - Neve
Mics - U47

Mark Cunningham did all the hard work for the digging - in his book History of Record Production and the Sound on Sound article here
http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/1995...hebeatles.html