Sending a mix to master,not even a compressor on the master bus?

[meymia]

Hi.
some one told me not to put ANY dynamic processors on the master bus...does that in your opinion uncluse asimple sonnox compressor to glue things up a bit?

[raindog]

I don't have any experience with any Sonox compressors, but it may not be a bad idea to leave it off...unless it's providing you with a special sound or effect that you want. If you're just looking to just knock off a dB or two for some glue, chances are, if you're having someone decent master it, he/she will have a better choice of compressor. That being said, all the ITB mixes I've done have left with some compression on the master. Very small amounts though, and with something like the Waves SSL or a Fairchild if I want some flavor/the sound of the compressor working a bit. But if I really think about it, it seems like a good idea to send it sans-mix bus compressor. It just makes me feel better with it on so I end up leaving it on...

[b0b]

+1 for that

Very good advise. Leave it on if it's actually doing something to the sound, something that's missing if it's not there. If it's there just to compress and make the mix louder, leave it off.

[Jamzone]

Depends on if your compressor is part of the your sound. For example mixing with an ssl-buscomp, you would definitly wanna keep it on when sending to mastering. Your mix could fall apart without it...

[RTR]

Originally Posted by Jamzone

Depends on if your compressor is part of the your sound. For example mixing with an ssl-buscomp, you would definitly wanna keep it on when sending to mastering. Your mix could fall apart without it...

Depends on if your compressor is part of your sound...oops, this was pretty much said already

[Crash]

With the latest stuff we are working on, we decided to do a test mastering session on the firt tune we completed mix wise. I took three versions of the tune to Jerry Tubb at TerraNova in Austin, one mix flat, one EQ'd and one EQ'd and limited. Jerry, listened to all three and went with the flat mix and did his thing. He seemed genuinely pleased that there were actual dynamics in the mixes. A good mastering guy is going to be able to "glue" things together and Jerry was able to make my master loud enough for me and still keep the VU's moving and tighten up my work. His tools are superior to what I have for that purpose. You may want to consider taking both a compressed version and a compressor free version and see what your mastering guy thinks. You are covered either way with this route.

[dhiltonlittle]

if you didn't mix INTO the compressor take it off. there is no point in putting it on at the end of your finished mix if it is going to be mastered. if you have been mixing into the compressor then it more than likely influenced a lot of your decisions and mix moves in which case i'd suggest leaving it on.

[meymia]

Originally Posted by dhiltonlittle

if you didn't mix INTO the compressor take it off. there is no point in putting it on at the end of your finished mix if it is going to be mastered. if you have been mixing into the compressor then it more than likely influenced a lot of your decisions and mix moves in which case i'd suggest leaving it on.

Yup A good advice...thanks...i didnt.

[Snatchman]

As mentioned, I'll print two takes. One with, one without and let the ME decide whether it decreases his/her work flow/results..Good luck

[doorknocker]

Originally Posted by Crash

A good mastering guy is going to be able to "glue" things together and Jerry was able to make my master loud enough for me and still keep the VU's moving and tighten up my work. His tools are superior to what I have for that purpose.

While I have no doubt that Jerry Tubb did a great job I just don't think that you should rely on the ME to 'glue' things.

IMO, mastering is all about making a record out of a bunch of seperate songs and fine-tuning the sonics when necessary.

[warhead]

Originally Posted by Snatchman

As mentioned, I'll print two takes. One with, one without and let the ME decide whether it decreases his/her work flow/results..Good luck

If you mix into a compressor though, it's going to change somewhat by taking it away after the fact. Adding it after the fact, which I do on a semi-regular basis, definitely qualifies as an easy two version option.

War

[Snatchman]

Originally Posted by warhead

If you mix into a compressor though, it's going to change somewhat by taking it away after the fact. Adding it after the fact, which I do on a semi-regular basis, definitely qualifies as an easy two version option.

War

[Crash]

Originally Posted by doorknocker

While I have no doubt that Jerry Tubb did a great job I just don't think that you should rely on the ME to 'glue' things.

IMO, mastering is all about making a record out of a bunch of seperate songs and fine-tuning the sonics when necessary.

Maybe "glue" is the wrong word on my part, maybe "polish" is a better word. Whatever the descibing word, the mixes were taken to the next level in my opinion. Good points on mixing into a compressor by all, it is just not something I do.

[popruff]

For anyone needing some mastering guidance.


Your welcome.
PopRuff Mastering

[HOTC]

i never put on compressor on the master..and never if its getting mastered

[psycho_monkey]

most of the time, I'd mix into an EQ then compressor - the vast majority of engineers I've assisted in the past do this, and if I removed the compressor the mix changes drastically.

and if the compressor stays, so does the EQ.

This is a very different thing to limiting the mix though. There's little point putting a (brickwall) limiter on and then sending it to the mastering engineer.

[teo]

A good part of the good mixes out there were mixed through an SSL quad bus compressor.
If you like how your master bus compressor sounds, just leave it in. Just do not overdo it, an definitely mix through it, don't turn it on after the mix is done.

YMMV

[Jim Williams]

Shhhsss! That's a trade secret!

The rest of you keep squashing your masters.

Jim Williams
Audio Upgrades

[RCM - Ronan]

My answer to this question is simple and always the same:

If there is any doubt in your mind, do not do anything to the master buss. when you feel 100% confident about your 2buss decisions, go for it.

[shaneoconnor]

with all of my bus compressors working well, i am often not very interested in master bus compression or eq, although i find on more subtle "natural" sounding mixes i often use a master bus comp.

example (myspace ugh...)

master comp
Birds in the Woods on MySpace Music - Free Streaming MP3s, Pictures & Music Videos

no master comp

Blackbutton on MySpace Music - Free Streaming MP3s, Pictures & Music Videos

[BLUElightCory]

Originally Posted by dhiltonlittle

if you didn't mix INTO the compressor take it off. there is no point in putting it on at the end of your finished mix if it is going to be mastered. if you have been mixing into the compressor then it more than likely influenced a lot of your decisions and mix moves in which case i'd suggest leaving it on.

Here is your answer.

[nbenford]

I agree with Ronan: if it sounds good (not just louder), do it.

I've had my mixes mastered my an assortment of people, and what I've found is that the very low-level, low-budget mastering houses that some clients I've worked with have chosen (despite my disapprobation) squash and mangle the mixes anyway, so why not give them a more even-sounding mix with better character. It might prevent them from over-squashing and over-EQing if it already sounds glued together, but probably not...

The other mastering experience I've had was with a very famous mastering engineer that (clearly) pumps out low-budget projects like crazy, not giving two shits as to how things end up sounding as long as it's loud (client's request, however). I'm sure he gives much more attention to large-budget projects. So, unless you have a good track record with a mastering engineer, get it sounding as good as you can before you send it, even if that includes buss compression. But always give them the choice to use the non buss compressed mix as well, ya know, just in case they actually are going to spend the time to get a better compression sound on the project you worked so damn hard on for so little cash. Who knows, maybe they give a crap!

Caveat: perhaps I've had worse mastering experiences than most. I often listen to my test-master of projects I've done instead of listening to the final master, which is often too squashed and too trebly for my taste.

-Noel

[Mr.HOLMES]

Originally Posted by Crash

With the latest stuff we are working on, we decided to do a test mastering session on the firt tune we completed mix wise. I took three versions of the tune to Jerry Tubb at TerraNova in Austin, one mix flat, one EQ'd and one EQ'd and limited. Jerry, listened to all three and went with the flat mix and did his thing. He seemed genuinely pleased that there were actual dynamics in the mixes. A good mastering guy is going to be able to "glue" things together and Jerry was able to make my master loud enough for me and still keep the VU's moving and tighten up my work. His tools are superior to what I have for that purpose. You may want to consider taking both a compressed version and a compressor free version and see what your mastering guy thinks. You are covered either way with this route.

thats a good idea to deliver the mastering house a version with the mix comp and one without it and telling them glue it together again with better tools.

even if you only have mix bus comp plug ins this is clever the ME knows what you want 1-2 db compression nothing heavily and he can do it better....

next time I mix a rock tune I will deliver the ME two tracks ......
Easy but it did not came to my mind yet even the ME never asked.

THANKS!!!!

[FireMoon]

Mastering to CD is a bit of a mystery to me... I'm trying to get my head round why, anyone, who really does know their stuff when making a mix actually needs someone else to take their work and, in effect, change it...

Why not just get someone else, who's ears you trust, to pop in give it the once over and then settle on that?

Mastering vinyl was a black art that a good practitioner of, was/is worth their weight in gold. That's because, there were and are, a whole rake of issues that go with mastering for vinyl...

But for CD, you add the correct info to a disc and that is, pretty much it.

Over the alst few years, to my ears, mastering has come to mean nothing more than...Make it as loud as possible and **** with the EQ to make still listenable whislt complwetely ignoring the feel of the originals. Yeah this might be great for those who are unable to achieve the level they wish on their recordings, but I'm jiggered if i can see why people with decades or experience allow others to, frankly, squeeze the bollox out of everything they have spent many long hours carefully crafting..


The point the poster made about the *name* operator is a good one. The law of human nature is that they will be happy to spend hours titting about and carefully tweaking some big money project, whilst just banging out other stuff for a buck..

As such, it is very much a lottlery. By all means if you just want your mixes * turned up till they squeak* go ahead send them to XYZ. Or alternatively, get it sounding right yourself and settle for that? Just get someone, who's ears you trust to give it a proper listen and make suggestions on paper as to what, they feel could be improved?

I can understand how someone, who has a relationship with a mastering engineer, will mix with them in mind. But the vast majority of us don't have that facility...

[illacov]

Mixing without compression is a great way to discover how to glue a mix with your ears.

My buddies and I, debate about this alot but I'd much rather mix quiet, monitor loud without 2 buss compression or EQ (warts and all), dump to tape @ 15 ips to get some level and let the ME do whatever EQ and possible limiting necessary to get it sounding just right to them and me.

Versus slapping some compression on it and mixing into it.

My philosophy is to get the mix working without ANY compression on it, use some good parallel busses for vox and drums, maybe bass etc.. and if you nail it without 2 buss processing then when you send it out to mastering it should be a cakewalk for you, because you can just veer towards the unmixed punchy sound as a final result.

Peace
Illumination

[Ciozzi]

Originally Posted by Crash

A good mastering guy is going to be able to "glue" things together

...I thought that was the mixer's job...

[John Eppstein]

Let the mastering engineer do it. If you do it and screw it up there's nothing he can do about it.


If you want to add some "glue", mix down to tape.....

[John Eppstein]

Originally Posted by Ciozzi

...I thought that was the mixer's job...

If the mixer is good the compression is unnecessary. If he isn't, then he'll just make things worse by adding it.

[John Eppstein]

Originally Posted by FireMoon

Mastering to CD is a bit of a mystery to me... I'm trying to get my head round why, anyone, who really does know their stuff when making a mix actually needs someone else to take their work and, in effect, change it...

Why not just get someone else, who's ears you trust, to pop in give it the once over and then settle on that?

Mastering vinyl was a black art that a good practitioner of, was/is worth their weight in gold. That's because, there were and are, a whole rake of issues that go with mastering for vinyl...

But for CD, you add the correct info to a disc and that is, pretty much it.

Over the alst few years, to my ears, mastering has come to mean nothing more than...Make it as loud as possible and **** with the EQ to make still listenable whislt complwetely ignoring the feel of the originals. Yeah this might be great for those who are unable to achieve the level they wish on their recordings, but I'm jiggered if i can see why people with decades or experience allow others to, frankly, squeeze the bollox out of everything they have spent many long hours carefully crafting..


The point the poster made about the *name* operator is a good one. The law of human nature is that they will be happy to spend hours titting about and carefully tweaking some big money project, whilst just banging out other stuff for a buck..

As such, it is very much a lottlery. By all means if you just want your mixes * turned up till they squeak* go ahead send them to XYZ. Or alternatively, get it sounding right yourself and settle for that? Just get someone, who's ears you trust to give it a proper listen and make suggestions on paper as to what, they feel could be improved?

I can understand how someone, who has a relationship with a mastering engineer, will mix with them in mind. But the vast majority of us don't have that facility...

In digital, if the music is well mixed the mastering engineer's job consists of:

Sequencing and adding the proper space between tunes

Adjusting the level of the various tunes so the album is consistent and doesn't jump up and down in apparent volume

making minuscule adjustments to EQ and dynamics to make the album hang together, rather than sounding like a bunch of disjointed singles

Inserting the metadata required for commercial release.


All this is also done in vinyl mastering, except that instead of metadata a code is inscribed on the inside of the master disk, and there is the additional process of actually cutting the master.

Notice that at no point did I saqy anything about squashing the crap out of it. A good mastering engineer doesn't do that - unless forced to by some idiot company rep or ignorant "artist".

[Ciozzi]

Originally Posted by John Eppstein

If the mixer is good the compression is unnecessary. If he isn't, then he'll just make things worse by adding it.

From an interview with CLA...

Chris Lord-Alge: Mixing on an SSL 4056 E console modified to G+ from a Sony 3348 as our 48 digital medium. Some people might wonder why I’m still using this; the reason is that it still sounds good to me. It’s all edited on Pro Tools HD and transferred mostly flat to the 48 digital medium, and then we mix back to 1/2-inch 96K, 2-bit two-track. Basically that’s what they are going to master from, with an Apogee front end on it. It’s a pretty simple chain if you think about it, but my chain has a pair of Pultecks EQing the whole bus with three compressors

Should I deduce that CLA is not good enough ? He uses three compressors on his master bus (he must be three times bad then...lol) ! Many great mixers use compression on their master bus while others don't, it's a matter of taste, technique, experience and workflow. It's been said a million time here but I'll keep repeting it: there's only one thing that really matters, the final result.

I believe a good mixer should keep a couple of things in mind. Good mixes will need little to no eq/compression during mastering and, most importantly, eq and compression always call for adjustments that can't easly be done without damaging something else...sort of a trade off.

BTW, In this partiular case I'd tell the OP not to do anything, since he's done mixing and from that point on, it's the ME's task the get the job done.