Tell any great Rock Records where the drums were recorded straight to a DAW (No Tape)

[BLUElightCory]

Off the top of my head:

The Mars Volta "De-Loused In The Comatorium"
Muse "Absolution"
Foo Fighters "Echoes, Silence, Patience, and Grace"
Nine Inch Nails "With Teeth"
A Perfect Circle "Mer De Noms"

I'll stop there because it's been a long day and my brain is fried, but I expect people will start charming in with an army of digitally recorded albums.

[AMIEL]

Originally Posted by BLUElightCory

Off the top of my head:

The Mars Volta "De-Loused In The Comatorium"
Muse "Absolution"
Foo Fighters "Echoes, Silence, Patience, and Grace"
Nine Inch Nails "With Teeth"
A Perfect Circle "Mer De Noms"

I'll stop there because it's been a long day and my brain is fried, but I expect people will start charming in with an army of digitally recorded albums.

Thanks! I am very intrigued for more info about Drums captured digitally!

[Brad McGowan]

What I would be curious to know (not that we'll ever find out in most cases) is how much outboard was used during tracking and mixing to get the digitally recorded drums to behave in the mix.

Brad

[hazelmossobrien]

probably everything top 100 over the last decade, in the music "business" world they dont bother with tape anymore. the only high end commercial studio ive worked at had two studer 2 inch tape decks collecting dust in the machine room, they were literally dusty! in the main stream recording biz getting tape vibes doesn't matter.

[Fuel]

Originally Posted by hazelmossobrien

probably everything top 100 over the last decade.

I am not so sure about that in "Big Rock Records"...or I am wrong??
What about Paramore Riot?
Linkin Park"minutes to Midnite" Jet "Get Born", FOB 'Infinity on High", White Lies"White Lies", Placebo"Meds", Finger Eleven " Them vs You vs Me"

[15ips]

You know drums sound great on tape. Why the question?

[mbradzick]

Originally Posted by BLUElightCory

Off the top of my head:

The Mars Volta "De-Loused In The Comatorium"
Muse "Absolution"
Foo Fighters "Echoes, Silence, Patience, and Grace"
Nine Inch Nails "With Teeth"
A Perfect Circle "Mer De Noms"

I'll stop there because it's been a long day and my brain is fried, but I expect people will start charming in with an army of digitally recorded albums.

How do you know Mer De Noms was recorded straight to DAW? Was 13th Step recorded sans tape?

Not doubting you, just curious. I heard Mer was done on ADATS.

[Dr Roundmenge]

I believe the first Arctic Monkeys Album was done direct to 'tools.

[RTR]

Originally Posted by 15ips

You know drums sound great on tape. Why the question?

Cuz they sound better digital!!! OH OH...He did not just say that!!!

[domokunrox]

Originally Posted by Brad McGowan

What I would be curious to know (not that we'll ever find out in most cases) is how much outboard was used during tracking and mixing to get the digitally recorded drums to behave in the mix.

Brad

Brad, I can't help but find that you're trying so very hard to take a shit on the possibility that an incredible sounding straight to DAW album can harmonically trump an analog tape tracked album when done right.

I know you make a living on telling people that their recordings sound better on tape and thats great, but would you seriously please give it a rest?

Brad, do you seriously think that there isn't engineers/producers out there that have vision, excellent production skills, and use EQ, compression and gain staging properly and tastefully?

[CapnMarvel]

Originally Posted by Brad McGowan

What I would be curious to know (not that we'll ever find out in most cases) is how much outboard was used during tracking and mixing to get the digitally recorded drums to behave in the mix.

Brad

[Steffmo]

I'll be happy to be todays flame bait.

I'm an ex full time session drummer who has been recording 30 plus years, who owns the aforementioned Studer.

I'm cool ether ways these days. I know what I want to hear, and can get it either way. If the client wants to go to 2" I'm more than happy to,if not, I'm fine as well. And yes.....there are some things about drums that are better about digital.

Maybe its because I'm a drummer, but at this point I find there is more to gain from guitars on tape than drums.

Lets not forget that a bazilion CDs from the later 80's and 90's were recorded to Sony digial multitrack. Like any Bob Crearmountain CD.

And Digital is digital.

[Tone Monster]

Metallica recorded St. Anger directly to Pro Tools. That snare is amazing!

[BLUElightCory]

Originally Posted by Michael Zick

How do you know Mer De Noms was recorded straight to DAW? Was 13th Step recorded sans tape?

Not doubting you, just curious. I heard Mer was done on ADATS.

Mer De Noms could have been to ADAT, I was just listing digitally recorded albums in general. It'd still be digital drums though.

While we're on the subject of ADAT, how about "Fantastic Planet" by Failure? Amazing sounding record.

[TheArchitect]

Originally Posted by Brad McGowan

What I would be curious to know (not that we'll ever find out in most cases) is how much outboard was used during tracking and mixing to get the digitally recorded drums to behave in the mix.

Brad

All you really need is a good player.

[TheArchitect]

Originally Posted by 15ips

You know drums sound great on tape. Why the question?

True, but that doesn't mean they therefore sound bad on another medium.

[Brad McGowan]

Originally Posted by domokunrox

Brad, I can't help but find that you're trying so very hard to take a shit on the possibility that an incredible sounding straight to DAW album can harmonically trump an analog tape tracked album when done right.

I know you make a living on telling people that their recordings sound better on tape and thats great, but would you seriously please give it a rest?

Brad, do you seriously think that there isn't engineers/producers out there that have vision, excellent production skills, and use EQ, compression and gain staging properly and tastefully?

Good morning sir,

I’m not trying to crap on anything. I’m just making an observation based on years of participation on this forum that the signal paths used to create sounds for ITB-produced albums in many cases seem to be very long. And based on my personal experiences using both mediums I have found that I too tend to put longer chains of gear together to achieve the sounds I want to hear when recording and mixing digitally. I know I’m not alone in that sentiment. I was merely stating my curiosity about the work of the those “great rock records” that Amiel was asking about. I am curious whether or not my experience and the experiences of others on this forum represent some kind of general trend. I think those are legitimate things to be curious about as a student of record-making.

I would never say that there aren’t great sounding albums made straight to DAW. I probably own a bunch of them and love them on their own merits. All I can say is that I think I personally can get more rockin’ drum sounds recording to tape than I can recording straight to digital. If you are curious what drums sounds result when one records to both analog and digital simultaneously then feel free to download the tracks I posted here (about 300MB per file):

record straight to tape vs protools, then tape

Just so you have the correct story for next time…I make a living as a mechanical engineer designing structural things. I don’t believe that I’ve ever told anyone specifically that their recordings sound better on tape. I can only comment on my own recordings that I have first hand experience with. I have suggested that some people give tape a try because they might find a new approach to recording that they enjoy. It’s doesn’t make sense to me to bash something or make assumptions about something unless you have tried it for yourself.

Regarding your last question.... I spent the last year recording and mixing an album for my band mostly straight to digital. I'm proud of the way it came out. If you'd like to hear it go here: Plot Against Rachel on MySpace Music - Free Streaming MP3s, Pictures & Music Videos

Thanks for contributing,
Brad

[dkelley]

Originally Posted by AMIEL

Anybody can mention some great Rock Records or Rock Songs that the drums were not Recorded straight to Tape and that sounds great?

Just Curious!

you're serious? You really think that most great rock drums were recorded to tape? I mean, obviously 20 years ago they were, but I guarantee that MOST (yes I know not ALL) records made in the past decade or two were done entirely to digital (whether daw or standalone digital recorder) without analog tape in there.

There are certainly people who use analog tape still, some great engineers and some hacks (just like with digital), but digital recording is likely 90 or even 95% of what you're hearing on drums and everything in a mix.

EDIT: and I'm not saying that tracking drums to tape isn't amazing, it works great. but I get a similar (not identical) result with good compression used tastefully and good eq and miking used well. As do most other engineers who track everything (including drums) to digital.

If you NEED tape to make drums sound amazing then you're not doing something right. Not that it isn't a great sound, but it is one of many different ways to get great sound, certainly not the only way, and in many people's opinion, not the best way.

Cheers,
Don

[AMIEL]

Dear Don,
first of all I never said that is not possible to get a great sounding Rock Record recording all straight to a DAW.

But I think many of the great Rock records of Today, the drums were recorded to Tape.
Maybe I am wrong, maybe not...but to have it more clear this is why I am asking.

The point is that nobody besides a couple of guys here named some great modern Rock Records that were 100 % recorded to digital.

So instead to talk about the wonders of tape or the equal success of recording drums to digital i want name of great modern Rock Records that all was recorded 100% straight to a DAW.

I really do not want assumptions, just facts.

in the last years 90% of the records I produced were recorded straight to a DAW...and the ones that were done on Tape all were done in L.A few years ago ....I live in Miami.

I am not closed minded to believe a great sounding Rock Record can not be recorded straight to a DAW..for me a great song, arrangement and performance is more important that the medium.

So can I ask again which modern Rock Records were recorded 100% straight to a DAW?

[Brad McGowan]

Does anyone know if there is a definitive way to find out what medium was used short of knowing someone on the production team?

I've been listening to the new Metric album, Fantasies, and I've been assuming that it was all done with ProTools. It sounds really awesome, and would love to confirm.

Brad

[N. Michael]

Originally Posted by BLUElightCory

Off the top of my head:

The Mars Volta "De-Loused In The Comatorium"
Muse "Absolution"
Foo Fighters "Echoes, Silence, Patience, and Grace"
Nine Inch Nails "With Teeth"
A Perfect Circle "Mer De Noms"

I'll stop there because it's been a long day and my brain is fried, but I expect people will start charming in with an army of digitally recorded albums.

With the Foo Fighters ESPG, I think there are great songs on this CD but IMO it is absolutely UNLISTENABLE. There is no depth - front to back on this recording. It is difficult to listen to for any length of time at loud volumes due the harsh factor and IMO does a great injustice to a stellar band. I don't think this release qualifies as a great example. I'm not sure how they recorded it and don't care whether it was digital only or not. It could have been pilot error during mastering. Wish I could get past the production and just enjoy the songs with a some nice lush sonic character. I have listened to it on a variety of sources... car, headphones, studio, home stereo and get the same results. Maybe it only sounds good on an Ipod but I can't get myself prepared for more torture.

Sorry to jump on you BLUElightcory. Not meaning to bash you.
Just my opinion, and a strong one 'cause I think this band deserves better. They did sell a gazillion of this album, so I guess I am in the minority.

N. Michael

[vonrichter]

I'm fairly sure XTC's Nonsuch did not use tape... the drums sound killer and huge on that album. The whole album in general is phat sounding as hell, lots of beef but also clarity.

[dbbubba]

I have been working on two projects that were both recorded to digital.
I tracked one using a combination of APIs and Spheres on the drums straight into DP5.
The other was very good mic pres (which I am not 100% sure) into Pro Tools via an Apogee converter.
I didn't track the drums on the second project.
Both drummers are strong players.

Last weekend I needed to do a re-sing of a radio spot I recorded at my studio circa 1992.
The spot is on 2", so I loaded up the tape onto my MCI JH-24 and transferred it to DAW.
It was a good solid session player playing our studio kit (Sonor Phonic Series) thru our Soundtracs and onto a MCI JH-24 24 track running 30 IPS onto 456 @ +8db over 185 nwbr (yes, I know 456 was intended to be a +6 tape.)

The sound of those drums without any processing SMOKES the sound of the drums recorded on digital.
There is no question.

Digitally recorded drums have become an accepted thing, but it takes additional processing like compression and other tricks to get them to sound as nice as analog.

The drums on the projects I am working on now sound "OK" 95% of the time, but there are times when analog tape compression would have kept some of the "in your face" moments in check.
This kinda' explains why people are so enamored with compressors.
I have been thinking for weeks about how I will treat the drums to get them to sound nice an even where they don't pop out front in places.
Analog tape would have done this for me.
Specifically, there are places where snare hits get a bit loud and pop out.
The toms sound a bit bright (this has always been a problem on digital for me.)

We actually discussed transferring the drum to 2" today.
I might still do it.
I have the technology.

To preface this... I have not tracked drums straight to analog since 1993.
I have cut close to four hundred pieces to digital in one form or the other in that time, too.
I have tracked to digital and then transferred to and from analog a few times.

[TheArchitect]

While I understand where the OP is coming from, in the big picture its a moot point. The sonics of an album are determined by the musicians and the engineers making about a million decisions in the recording and mixing process.

The medium is irrelevant. IF it sounds like ass in the DAW it would sound like ass on tape. The reason is poor decisions by the people involved, not the medium they used. Contrary to popular opinion tape is no magic elixir.

[AMIEL]

Originally Posted by Brad McGowan

Does anyone know if there is a definitive way to find out what medium was used short of knowing someone on the production team?

I've been listening to the new Metric album, Fantasies, and I've been assuming that it was all done with ProTools. It sounds really awesome, and would love to confirm.

Brad

Hi Brad!
Yeah , the new Metric Album Rocks,,a bit harsh if I want to be picky, but the songs and the vibe are great!

[Jamzone]

Originally Posted by Tone Monster

Metallica recorded St. Anger directly to Pro Tools. That snare is amazing!

Whooooooaaaaa!!!!!

[AMIEL]

Originally Posted by TheArchitect

While I understand where the OP is coming from, in the big picture its a moot point. The sonics of an album are determined by the musicians and the engineers making about a million decisions in the recording and mixing process.

The medium is irrelevant. IF it sounds like ass in the DAW it would sound like ass on tape. The reason is poor decisions by the people involved, not the medium they used. Contrary to popular opinion tape is no magic elixir.

This is one of the things i I really do not get it on Gearslutz.

Man. everything in recording is dependent of different factors.
The Medium determine sonics too.

Your comment is pretty much like somebody is asking for a preamp for electric guitar and then somebody else come and say: " Hey, this is pointless, play good and all will be Ok"

Man , we know how important is performace!! you did not discover America!! but we are not talking about that,,,we are talking about sonics!!

Here in GS we talk about sonics and gear. and as you said:
"The sonics of an album are determined by the musicians and the engineers making about a million decisions in the recording and mixing process.

and one of the decisions of a producer and the engineer is the Medium.
Is a fact that Tape does not sound the same as digital.

I never said that tape is better or the only way to achieve a great sound...read the thread!!!!

and as you said. if sounds as Ass with API and Neumann mics, let's go and record with a Radio Shack Mics. a Soundblaster Card and 100 bucks mic pres!

Nobody wants players that play and sound like ass, but if you have great players then personal sonic preferences or specific gear is not important ??
If that is your vision just record everything with an MBox and mix it only ITB!

Why people can not understand that if you want tape is only about the sonics!
You have to be an idiot to believe anything in audio is the magic Elixir.. I think nobody here is contrary to that statement.,,and that includes Tape...so what is your point?

[TheArchitect]

Originally Posted by AMIEL

This is one of the things i I really do not get it on Gearslutz.

Man. everything in recording is dependent of different factors.
The Medium determine sonics too.

Your comment is pretty much like somebody is asking for a preamp for electric guitar and then somebody else come and say: " Hey, this is pointless, play good and all will be Ok"

Man , we know how important is performace!! you did not discover America!! but we are not talking about that,,,we are talking about sonics!!

Here in GS we talk about sonics and gear. and as you said:
"The sonics of an album are determined by the musicians and the engineers making about a million decisions in the recording and mixing process.

and one of the decisions of a producer and the engineer is the Medium.
Is a fact that Tape does not sound the same as digital.

I never said that tape is better or the only way to achieve a great sound...read the thread!!!!

and as you said. if sounds as Ass with API and Neumann mics, let's go and record with a Radio Shack Mics. a Soundblaster Card and 100 bucks mic pres!

Nobody wants players that play and sound like ass, but if you have great players then personal sonic preferences or specific gear is not important ??
If that is your vision just record everything with an MBox and mix it only ITB!

Why people can not understand that if you want tape is only about the sonics!
You have to be an idiot to believe anything in audio is the magic Elixir.. I think nobody here is contrary to that statement.,,and that includes Tape...so what is your point?

I read the thread smart ass

That you even ask the question suggests you think analog is superior or at the very least you think others do.

What forum its said on is irrelevant. Putting the gear as the first priority is flat out missing the point .

and yes,

My point is IT DOESN'T MATTER. If you can't get it done you can't get it done. using a studer instead of protools isn't going to change that

[AMIEL]

Originally Posted by TheArchitect

I read the thread smart ass

That you even ask the question suggests you think analog is superior or at the very least you think others do.

What forum its said on is irrelevant. Putting the gear as the first priority is flat out missing the point .

and yes,

My point is IT DOESN'T MATTER. If you can't get it done you can't get it done. using a studer instead of protools isn't going to change that

Well, you are funny.

So because I ask which great sounding records were recorded on Digital , so then I am saying Tape is Superior???

Ok man. when I gonna travel to a new City, I will not ask where is a good italian Restaurant because with my question I am suggesting that in that City is not possible to find good Pasta! ...

At least you made me laugh! thanks!