Lots of COMP=lots of HISS what do you do to avoid the noise floor working it's way up

[gurubuzz]

I have been noticeing more and more hiss in my mics and pres...

I am now thinking that maybe I am, just as a matter of habit, slapping way too much compression------ on especially VOCALS.

Is anyone else noticing this??

When I parallel comp a vocal I am smashing it like 6:1 - 25db and then gain like +12 or 18 db

Then a limiter like -6 to -10 db so that's now up to 26 db of gain. With some singers who don't sing so close to the mics the noise compared to their vocals is only say -40db so this is dragging the self noise of the vocal chain up to around the -14db mark with all the make up gain and when the release lets go it climbs up much louder.....

So how can I avoid this, is it that I am just too trigger happy with my compression???

[filin]

That is a reasonably large amount of compression, but not uheard of.

Try putting a gate before the compressor.

Or use less compression and more volume automation: Ride the vocal.

[gurubuzz]

Yes I use gates...

I will try over he next few days to back off my compression of the vocals. I'm sure I can get the same sound with less I've just been going more and more with no respect....

[river]

Take a look at the front end sources of noise too, like mic self noise, preamp gain settings, cables. Also try to nudge the threshold up a bit on the comp and limiter. I've been using setting like -22 to -26 on the comp with a ratio of roughly 2:1 (depends on vocalist for sure), makeup gain roughly half the theshold value. Limiter threshold at -1 to -2 with out ceiling at -1. I'm thinking with a 6:1 ratio on the comp, it's forcing you to use more limiting, which brings the noise floor up. Good luck with it.

[gurubuzz]

Originally Posted by river

Take a look at the front end sources of noise too, like mic self noise, preamp gain settings, cables. Also try to nudge the threshold up a bit on the comp and limiter. I've been using setting like -22 to -26 on the comp with a ratio of roughly 2:1 (depends on vocalist for sure), makeup gain roughly half the theshold value. Limiter threshold at -1 to -2 with out ceiling at -1. I'm thinking with a 6:1 ratio on the comp, it's forcing you to use more limiting, which brings the noise floor up. Good luck with it.

I've had this notion for years that the gain on a pre just brings up it's self noise

so I mean if you boost the mic pre it's just bringing everything up including it's own self noise..would you agree???

in other words if the mic pre was set lower and I boosted the gain in the DAW i would be roughly at the same place if the pre was turned up??

[mark.james]

Correct me if I'm wrong here, I'm no professional... but when you compress something aren't you evening out the levels, which would make noise in the background the same volume as the source? The way I've worked around this in the past is to use an expander instead of a compressor.

Mark

[memphisindie]

That is a TON of compression you are using, a 2:1 and a 5:1 should be way more than enough for anything, two 2:1's in a row should be plenty. You may not need gates if you do that. If you are creating a drastic effect on purpose, use gates.

[theblue1]

Originally Posted by gurubuzz

I have been noticeing more and more hiss in my mics and pres...

I am now thinking that maybe I am, just as a matter of habit, slapping way too much compression------ on especially VOCALS.

Is anyone else noticing this??

When I parallel comp a vocal I am smashing it like 6:1 - 25db and then gain like +12 or 18 db

Then a limiter like -6 to -10 db so that's now up to 26 db of gain. With some singers who don't sing so close to the mics the noise compared to their vocals is only say -40db so this is dragging the self noise of the vocal chain up to around the -14db mark with all the make up gain and when the release lets go it climbs up much louder.....

So how can I avoid this, is it that I am just too trigger happy with my compression???

Every signal, every situation is potentially different, so talking specific numbers is often a fool's errand.

That said, if you've got a compression threshold 25 dB down and you're getting too much input chain self-noise in your recording, that should tell you something, right there. Set your threshold to minimize the inclusion of self noise [ie, set your threshold 'above' the noise floor to the extent you can].

If you're looking for a really squashed vocal sound, you can still get that with a high compression ratio, but by carefully setting your threshold, you'll help minimize the input chain self-noise that you bring up when you compress and gain-adjust.

[With regard to gating, as in to eliminate hiss when the vocalist isn't singing, I've tended to avoid realtime gating like the plague because I'm really sensitive to chopped off leading transients and the sound of gates opening on an existing signal drives me nuts. In tape days I'd clean up the track by punching in silence. With digital lookahead gating in a DAW, however, you can set your gate to include as much or as little as you'd like.]

[gurubuzz]

Originally Posted by theblue1

Every signal, every situation is potentially different, so talking specific numbers is often a fool's errand.

That said, if you've got a compression threshold 25 dB down and you're getting too much input chain self-noise in your recording, that should tell you something, right there. Set your threshold to minimize the inclusion of self noise [ie, set your threshold 'above' the noise floor to the extent you can].

If you're looking for a really squashed vocal sound, you can still get that with a high compression ratio, but by carefully setting your threshold, you'll help minimize the input chain self-noise that you bring up when you compress and gain-adjust.

[With regard to gating, as in to eliminate hiss when the vocalist isn't singing, I've tended to avoid realtime gating like the plague because I'm really sensitive to chopped off leading transients and the sound of gates opening on an existing signal drives me nuts. In tape days I'd clean up the track by punching in silence. With digital lookahead gating in a DAW, however, you can set your gate to include as much or as little as you'd like.]

great!!

makes sense to keep the threshold away from the noise floor

i'll try that

[river]

I've had this notion for years that the gain on a pre just brings up it's self noise

so I mean if you boost the mic pre it's just bringing everything up including it's own self noise..would you agree???

in other words if the mic pre was set lower and I boosted the gain in the DAW i would be roughly at the same place if the pre was turned up??

The self noise of the pre is going to be constant no matter what the input gain level is set at, so the noise will be higher after compression if the pre input gain is low. If you crank up the output gain, you'll hear the self noise. By having hotter input gain, your output gain will be lower. By upping the input gain on the pre, you're increasing the signal to noise ratio, so the vocal is further away from the noise floor of the pre by being hotter. There are other sources of noise possible in a pre, like thermal noise or a bad component, ie tube filament, capacitor, resistor. It's all about gain staging.

Ditto on the the threshold advice by theblue1, I alluded to it in my first post, but he said it better than I did.

[Audiop]

Yes it seems counterintuitive but a micpre typically has less noise when turning it up. Well obviously the noise is brought up in level but the signal will be brought up slightly more.


/Peter