Punk Drums vs Hootie and the blow fish drums

[skiroy]

I know a crazy topic, but Im recording a school project and we were given "I just wanna be with you" by Hootie in the blow fish to redo(I think thats whats its called).

But some of the kids thought it would be fun to redo it as a modern punk song(not going for the vintage sound quality like, greenday vs. the ramones),but we are still deciding. I think we are going to lay the drums first and then decide,but I want to do 2 drums tracks,one punk and one true to the original feel.

As far as the kick and OHs can you guys give me tips on placement for each style and if you would use room mics and which mics to try for OHs and/or room mics?And if you would use a adl 600 tube pre for the OHs or a Focusrite Solid state pre?Also have a Eureka and a Focusrite Liquid pre.

I pretty much have any mics I could need but here isa a list

KM-184
U87
C414B
Sm57
SM7b
Shure Beta a51 or the boundary mic for the kick
Beyer Opal kit
Beyer160
Royer 122
Bluebird
Cad Trion ribbon mic think 8000
Cad trion 7000
Apex 210
Babybottle
Oktava 012
SM58
(2)-421s
D112
Yamaha Sub kick
AT3525
Audio-Technica PRO37R
Rodes nt 1000
Shure SM 81
Audix D6
Peluso 2247LE
ATM450
CAD e60

and more

[John Eppstein]

Originally Posted by skiroy

I know a crazy topic, but Im recording a school project and we were given "I just wanna be with you" by Hootie in the blow fish to redo(I think thats whats its called).

But some of the kids thought it would be fun to redo it as a modern punk song(not going for the vintage sound quality like, greenday vs. the ramones),but we are still deciding. I think we are going to lay the drums first and then decide,but I want to do 2 drums tracks,one punk and one true to the original feel.

As far as the kick and OHs can you guys give me tips on placement for each style and if you would use room mics and which mics to try for OHs and/or room mics?And if you would use a adl 600 tube pre for the OHs or a Focusrite Solid state pre?Also have a Eureka and a Focusrite Liquid pre.

I pretty much have any mics I could need but here isa a list

KM-184
U87
C414B
Sm57
SM7b
Shure Beta a51 or the boundary mic for the kick
Beyer Opal kit
Beyer160
Royer 122
Bluebird
Cad Trion ribbon mic think 8000
Cad trion 7000
Apex 210
Babybottle
Oktava 012
SM58
(2)-421s
D112
Yamaha Sub kick
AT3525
Audio-Technica PRO37R
Rodes nt 1000
Shure SM 81
Audix D6
Peluso 2247LE
ATM450
CAD e60

and more

"I only wanna be with you" IMHO one of the all times worst, most execrable pieces of crap to devolve from the '90s, one of the all time worst periods both in pop music and in audio.

The best thing to do would be chuck it in the dustbin and write a new song with the same title - it's not like the concept is anything like original.

Talk about trying to make a silk purse out of a sow's..... um, well, you know......

You WOULD have to mention that horrible garbage.

IMHO there's nothing wrong with Hootie's vocal that can't be cured with a large lemon and 2 rolls of gaffer tape!

I suggest that a cover of Frank Zappa's rearrangement of John Cage's epic composition "Dead Air" would be more interesting.

[DirtyMan]

Originally Posted by John Eppstein

"I only wanna be with you" IMHO one of the all times worst, most execrable pieces of crap to devolve from the '90s, one of the all time worst periods both in pop music and in audio.

The best thing to do would be chuck it in the dustbin and write a new song with the same title - it's not like the concept is anything like original.

Talk about trying to make a silk purse out of a sow's..... um, well, you know......

You WOULD have to mention that horrible garbage.

IMHO there's nothing wrong with Hootie's vocal that can't be cured with a large lemon and 2 rolls of gaffer tape!

I suggest that a cover of Frank Zappa's rearrangement of John Cage's epic composition "Dead Air" would be more interesting.

while i cant help him I would have liked to where as you just needed a place to take a dump ..nice .. help for the op any body

[John Eppstein]

Originally Posted by DirtyMan

while i cant help him I would have liked to where as you just needed a place to take a dump ..nice .. help for the op any body

Sorry about that - Hootie kind of sets me off - overexposure tocrap will do that.

As far as punk drums go, my usual setup is

kick- AKG D12E

Snare - (top) SM56 (SM57) or E-V 664

Rack - Sennheiser MD 409/e609 or SM57 if I don't have Sennheisers

Floor - Sennheiser MD421

Hat- BeyerDynamic M201

I don't use overheads much for punk, but if I do it's

OH - AKG C451 or C414 (x2)


As to what I might use for Hootie's drums, I don't have the slightest idea - I uusually try to avoid working with acts I really can't stand. Maybe if they gave me a whole PILE of money...... but most likely it wouldn't be much different from the punk setup, except fot the use of overheads and a C451 on snare bottom head. I probably wouldn't use a 664 on snare top.

[Enginearing]

sheesh... i'm sorry man, what did you do to piss your teacher off that much??

[NathanEldred]

It's more of a difference in playing style, drum type/size and drum tuning more than placement IME.

[John Eppstein]

Originally Posted by NathanEldred

It's more of a difference in playing style, drum type/size and drum tuning more than placement IME.

Yup!

Or, in the case of the Blowhards, the lack of a playing style......

[feck]

Originally Posted by John Eppstein

Yup!

Or, in the case of the Blowhards, the lack of a playing style......

You know you just envy that drummer's haircut!

[studjo]

Originally Posted by NathanEldred

It's more of a difference in playing style, drum type/size and drum tuning more than placement IME.

ditto

[skiroy]

Originally Posted by John Eppstein

"I only wanna be with you" IMHO one of the all times worst, most execrable pieces of crap to devolve from the '90s, one of the all time worst periods both in pop music and in audio.

The best thing to do would be chuck it in the dustbin and write a new song with the same title - it's not like the concept is anything like original.

Talk about trying to make a silk purse out of a sow's..... um, well, you know......

You WOULD have to mention that horrible garbage.

IMHO there's nothing wrong with Hootie's vocal that can't be cured with a large lemon and 2 rolls of gaffer tape!

I suggest that a cover of Frank Zappa's rearrangement of John Cage's epic composition "Dead Air" would be more interesting.

I didnt choose the song Im stuck with it.Its an assignment and cause I hate it makes it a challenge.

[skiroy]

Originally Posted by John Eppstein

Sorry about that - Hootie kind of sets me off - overexposure tocrap will do that.

As far as punk drums go, my usual setup is

kick- AKG D12E

Snare - (top) SM56 (SM57) or E-V 664

Rack - Sennheiser MD 409/e609 or SM57 if I don't have Sennheisers

Floor - Sennheiser MD421

Hat- BeyerDynamic M201

I don't use overheads much for punk, but if I do it's

OH - AKG C451 or C414 (x2)


As to what I might use for Hootie's drums, I don't have the slightest idea - I uusually try to avoid working with acts I really can't stand. Maybe if they gave me a whole PILE of money...... but most likely it wouldn't be much different from the punk setup, except fot the use of overheads and a C451 on snare bottom head. I probably wouldn't use a 664 on snare top.

You dont use rooms for punk either? Do you not OHs or rooms for punk because you dont want the drums to sound real big?

[CREAMY WILLIAMS]

Keyed ambience, cheap speed and industrial strength cider.

Here is a good article in sound on sound:

CLASSIC TRACKS: 'Anarchy In The UK'

[sevendaysoff]

ummm.. unless the drummer doesnt use cymbals and you want the kit to sound like a drum machine i'd say the overheads are without a doubt a necessity.

[henge]

When I was playing for a living one of the first things I would say into the mike was tonight we have a Hootie free zone. All Hootie requests will be ignored and even laughed at!

[daddycal]

Hey there. Sent you a PM.

[AllAboutTone]

Originally Posted by John Eppstein

- Hootie kind of sets me off - overexposure tocrap will do that.

NO WAY !!! I'm not a huge Hootie fan, I do like some of there more current stuff, I really did not care for the 1st ablum and thats the one that made them huge bucks and they set and record for debut sells, so I would not be taking a dump on them, running up the vote lines on American Idol is cheating but record sells is the real deal....
This is not a smashing Hootie thread. Besides look who's on top of the country charts right now.....sounds like Hootie to me.

As far as punk I would track analog if all possible, D112 on kick, 57 on snare, 421s on toms, punk band sorta brings their own sound to the table so go from there as much as you can, altho I do have some punk bands that bring horrible guitar amp sounds to the studio.

[emrr]

I love the title of this thread.

[Faderjockey]

Ok..I'm feeling old.. he said Greenday and Vintage...

It's like when you hear a tune on a classic rock station that isn't that old and your like ONLY CRAP!! I'm old now!!

[theblue1]

Originally Posted by Enginearing

sheesh... i'm sorry man, what did you do to piss your teacher off that much??

It's good training to work on music you don't like.

Because real professionals often have to.


Real professionals can get up, day after day, and bring the same level of professionalism and care to music they hate that they bring to music they like.

It's one of the reasons I don't take clients anymore.

When I found myself browsing the net back in the 90s when I was tracking someone (it was a pro bono job that had gone on way too long, I'll admit), I knew it was time to pull down the shingle.

I take my hat off to the guys who can go back out into the trenches day after day and bring that kind of professionalism and discipline to their craft.

It is, indeed, what makes them professionals.

[theblue1]

Originally Posted by Faderjockey

Ok..I'm feeling old.. he said Greenday and Vintage...

It's like when you hear a tune on a classic rock station that isn't that old and your like ONLY CRAP!! I'm old now!!

I suspect he meant they are seeking a vintage-style sound.

Being someone who isn't so sure that punk even made it into the 80s, let alone the 90s, punk is, for me, pretty much pure nostalgia. I was there on the ground in the mid and late 70s in LA and it was a great, amazing time. I never lived so hard, saw so much music -- or saw so many people trying to make something new and unique, something vital and personal. Just the opposite, seems to me, of what 'punk' is 30+ years down the road -- when everyone is falling all over themselves to sound like everyone else and jam themselves into The Big Cookie Cutter.

[skiroy]

I admit Im not a punk fan. But when I say vintage I guess I meant the sound quality of recording back in the 80s was not where it is today as far as the clean big drums sound of today. Im actually a hip hop guy but I appreciate recording everything more and more because I can respect the muscianship of it. But I have been given good advice on "punk drums" but does anyone have any advice on "hootie drums" for THIS song. Would you approach this sound like a country song or a rock song? Room mics,alot of close miced drums,Really high OHs, or minimal micing approach?

The whole point for me to do this song is not to do something I like but to be able to acheive different sounds that fit the type of song Im doing. And though this song aint my thing I cant say its complete garbage. Who sounded like them when they came out? Hootie was Hootie. And I didnt listen to the album but I can respect this song. I think people hate it because it got so played out and over hyped that you began to hate it. I think we have to remember that its not the artist fault if the world decides to run there song into the ground. Thats success we all would be cool with if it happen to us. Its just one song they made out of many that for whatever reason took on a whole life in its self. Have you ever made a song you later thought wasnt that good? But what if the radio stations and the world went crazy for it and paid your morgage, what would you do? Of course it aint about the money but come on, there still good musicians. Maybe not the best but they are passionate about there sh*t. I wouldn't ever discourage someone to make music even if they are not to our standard of "good",but as long as there doing it for the right reasons. Its the love for it thats beautifull. Its the people that are makeing music for what they think people want to hear just to make money or to feel important,which I have no respect for. Basically what hip hop has become.But thats a whole nother subject. But back to drum micing tips for the "Hootie" sound.

Thankx

[macr0w]

I remember when Hootie was the Wednesday night band at Amos Bar and Bistro here in Charlotte back in the day before they hit it big.

The had a hard time pulling people in there, then all of a sudden they were everywhere.

I think doing a punk cover is awesome. That's the only way to do it justice.

Although, could I suggest Death Metal? It may translate better.

As a drummer I think I will agree that it's in the player more than the recording technique.

I would say go a bit low-fi if possible.

Good luck and you have to post a .mp3 sample when your done please.

[theblue1]

Originally Posted by macr0w

I remember when Hootie was the Wednesday night band at Amos Bar and Bistro here in Charlotte back in the day before they hit it big.

The had a hard time pulling people in there, then all of a sudden they were everywhere.

[...]

The masses had not yet received instructions that they were to like and buy Hootie's music.

People are always beating up on the masses -- but they can only do as they are told.

Or... at least... it seems that way sometimes.

[NathanEldred]

Originally Posted by theblue1

It's good training to work on music you don't like.

Because real professionals often have to.


Real professionals can get up, day after day, and bring the same level of professionalism and care to music they hate that they bring to music they like.

It's one of the reasons I don't take clients anymore.

I take my hat off to the guys who can go back out into the trenches day after day and bring that kind of professionalism and discipline to their craft.

It is, indeed, what makes them professionals.

Right on. I'm in a similar situation, and I've never seen anyone say it so close to home for myself (and how I feel). A nail can only take so much hammering before it breaks.

[John Eppstein]

Originally Posted by skiroy

You dont use rooms for punk either? Do you not OHs or rooms for punk because you dont want the drums to sound real big?

No, it's because I usually record punk with everybody playing at the same time and all I get in the OH and room mics is real loud guitars.

If I had the option of having the band play in a large enough room to get some isolation on the drums I'd probably use overheads, but such rooms are pretty rare these days.

IMHO, punk does not lend itself to a track by track approach to recording - it makes it, er, not punky........

[Chaellus]

Originally Posted by John Eppstein

" the '90s, one of the all time worst periods both in pop music and in audio.

.

i gotta call BS on that id have to say 90's where some of the best times for pop...and audio...

porno for pyros
nirvanna
smashing pumpkins
NIN
Filter
Deftones
Lush
Cocteau Twins
third eye blind
........................list goes on.

[John Eppstein]

Originally Posted by sevendaysoff

ummm.. unless the drummer doesnt use cymbals and you want the kit to sound like a drum machine i'd say the overheads are without a doubt a necessity.

With most of the punk drummers I work with I get mondo cymbal bleed into the tom mics.

Flipper live at Amoeba Music

[skiroy]

Originally Posted by Chaellus

i gotta call BS on that id have to say 90's where some of the best times for pop...and audio...

porno for pyros
nirvanna
smashing pumpkins
NIN
Filter
Deftones
Lush
Cocteau Twins
third eye blind
........................list goes on.

I was gonna say the same thing but dont want to stir up sh*t. IM wasnt a huge fan of that genre cause I was a teenager,but looking back at those days and comparing it to today I deffinately have to agree everybody was original back then. Now I cant tell if the same people are making everything I hear on the radio or not. Thats for ALL genres.I hope we up for another revolution soon its just boring.

[Empty Planet]

Originally Posted by theblue1

....I never...saw so many people trying to make something new and unique, something vital and personal. Just the opposite, seems to me, of what 'punk' is 30+ years down the road -- when everyone is falling all over themselves to sound like everyone else and jam themselves into The Big Cookie Cutter.

So deeply true.

[Chaellus]

modern and punk dont ft in the same sentence...punk died in the 70's, the stuff your talking about is bubble gum rock.