in your opinoin what are the best tape saturation vst's out there?

[meymia]

in your opinoin what are the best tape saturation vst's out there?

[John Eppstein]

There are none. Rupert Neve has a hardware device that can be pretty convincing, but the're fairly pricey.....Tape recorders are cheap - if you want the sound of tape, use tape!

[Teddy Ray]

Steinberg Magneto sounds pretty good. I used it all the time before I bought Samplitude. The stock plugs embedded in Samplitude are stellar.

Of course they dont get you all the way there, but they can be a nice effect if thought of as just that and not a substitution.

[DSD_Mastering]

We use the Rupert Neve Masterpiece 2 in the analog domain and the Crane Song Phoenix on our PT system. Those are the only 2 that even come close.


Regards,

[TonyBelmont]

Originally Posted by John Eppstein

There are none.

Although I really like the URS Saturation for this.

[feck]

Virsyn V-Tape. Awesome plugin.

[MarsBot]

I just got TesslaPro which is a free plug-in. It's better and more subtle in my opinion than the original Tessla. It compares favorably to Virsyn TAPE, though I guess it's not technically a tape emulation. I really like it when I use a very slight amount of it and turn the "transient" knob all the way to the left to let the transients through. I wouldn't use it on everything and certainly not on the master buss. It's free and good so give it a shot if you're on PC.

[Mr.Noobyman]

Check out Colortone. It is awesome!

[Kiljoy]

I agree with those who said that nothing comes close to real tape but... I find I'm using the Voxengo TubeAmp on a lot of stuff to soften transients and 'smoosh' the upper-mids and top-end. It's a free plugin downloadable from their site.

[John Eppstein]

NONE OF THEM SOUND LIKE TAPE! The Neve hardware box comes close.

All these guys recommending plugins probably haven't used tape in their lives.

Most of 'em probably haven't been in the same room with a multitrack.

[Teddy Ray]

Originally Posted by John Eppstein

NONE OF THEM SOUND LIKE TAPE! The Neve hardware box comes close.

All these guys recommending plugins probably haven't used tape in their lives.

Most of 'em probably haven't been in the same room with a multitrack.

Correction, Mr. Eppstein. I have. I have or work with a MCI 8 track, Telefunken 2 tk, Tascam TSR8, and Nagra IV. I am just of the mind that when someone asks a question, it is proper to help if I can. If I cannot, and have nothing to contribute(more especially negativity), it is best to keep my damned mouth shut. Perhaps you would be well advised to do the same.

At this point you seem more like a reactionary old git with a chip on your shoulder. You don't contribute anything, constantly insult others here, and generally act unpleasant.
Please straighten up or go spew vitriol somewhere else.

you need to realize that not everyone cares for your line of thinking. you are not the tape machine saviour. you cannot save analog recording. on the contrary, given your most obnoxious méthode d'opération..id bet that you are turning people away in droves.

[John Eppstein]

Originally Posted by Teddy Ray

Correction, Mr. Eppstein. I have. I have or work with a MCI 8 track, Telefunken 2 tk, Tascam TSR8, and Nagra IV. I am just of the mind that when someone asks a question, it is proper to help if I can. If I cannot, and have nothing to contribute(more especially negativity), it is best to keep my damned mouth shut. Perhaps you would be well advised to do the same.

At this point you seem more like a reactionary old git with a chip on your shoulder. You don't contribute anything, constantly insult others here, and generally act unpleasant.
Please straighten up or go spew vitriol somewhere else.

you need to realize that not everyone cares for your line of thinking. you are not the tape machine saviour. you cannot save analog recording. on the contrary, given your most obnoxious méthode d'opération..id bet that you are turning people away in droves.

You have my apologies, sir. I had not noticed that you were one of those making a recommendation.

I don't mean to discourage anybody. However I do seek to help prevent people from wasting their money on products which do not perform as advertised. I have nothing against "warmer" plugins for those who need them - what I object to is the claim that they make digital recordings sound like tape - which they don't. There is an easy way to get the "tape sound" if you want it - run your tracks through a tape machine as an effect. Decent smaller tape machines are dirt cheap right now - often cheaper than the plugins that fail to emulate them. Alternately you can use a plugin to "warm up" the sound, which may or may not work for you. Unfortunately it is often extremely difficult to get to try such software before paying for it and once you open the shrink wrap you can't take it back.

What you seem to regard as an anti-digital bias is in fact a strong bias against the rampant consumer fraud that plagues the software industry and has done so since the advent of consumer software. If the companies advertised their products honestly I would have no objection.

Btw, I just noticed in your post the disclaimer that even the plugs you mentioned "don't get you all the way there"........

And tape doesn't need me to save it. The marketplace appears to be doing that just fine.

[feck]

Not a vst, but the Anamod ATS-1 is amazing. As close as you will get to a (actually several) well calibrated machine with new tape (actually several types), no maintenance necessary. In some cases better in my opinion.

[Kiwi]

Originally Posted by Kiljoy

I agree with those who said that nothing comes close to real tape but... I find I'm using the Voxengo TubeAmp on a lot of stuff to soften transients and 'smoosh' the upper-mids and top-end. It's a free plugin downloadable from their site.

Voxengo TubeAmp freebie (think tube preamp, not guitar amp) is surprisingly good at any price. If you like that, you would probably love PSP MixSaturator even more. Christortion is a slightly experimental freebie that allows you to dial in each specific harmonic, and although it's a little quirky, I found it to be very musical and in a similar league. I absolutely hated Magneto. But then again, it depends on the source material, and which harmonics can benefit from some excitation.

I would recommend collecting saturation plugins like stompboxes. Sometimes it is surprising what is perfect for the job at hand.

There is much more to tape sound than saturation/distortion though. There is definately an aspect of time/phase smearing that can't be duplicated with just distortion.

Voxengo has a suite includes TapeBus - and that uses convolution of impulses taken with various famous tapemachines, coupled with distortion - which allows for dynamic saturation response with the color of the impulses as well. I have mixed feelings about this. Initial response can be positive. But the difference between tape noise & convolution of impulses is that tape noise is constant, and convolution processing only affects the signal. This is especially noticable when trying to treat digital sources that fade to digital black. The way the impulse noise floor pulsates with the signal, and fades to black, irks me. That's why I tend to prefer a simple saturation effect for the harmonics, and if I wanted tape noise I would layer in a track of noise.

I figure that any EQ curve associated with tape is probably best recreated with an EQ. No doubt I will be informed that I am wrong, but that's just my preference.

Tape can add a bit of wow & flutter, but if I want that effect I would reach for a flanger or some other modulation effect.

I like to use transformers in the analog path - worth experimenting with as an alternative to trying to fake it.

[jinksdingo]

kiwi! Are you talking about the AT mag article a while back? Or are you talking about passing audio thru a piece of gear with input and output transformers like a compressor without using any compression?

I think the transformers on a tape machine have a bearing on the tone you get probably more so than the electron bleed of the tape over the heads.

I for one don't really like the fizz from saturating the magnetic material on a tape.
A VST that simulates tape I haven't found any that I like as yet.

[John Eppstein]

Originally Posted by Kiwi

There is much more to tape sound than saturation/distortion though. There is definately an aspect of time/phase smearing that can't be duplicated with just distortion.


I figure that any EQ curve associated with tape is probably best recreated with an EQ. No doubt I will be informed that I am wrong, but that's just my preference.



I like to use transformers in the analog path - worth experimenting with as an alternative to trying to fake it.

I don't know about "time/phase smearing", but there is definitely more to tape sound than just distortion. For example, there is the matter of "head bump" which is a frequency response artifact that differs with the model machine you're dealing with and the headstack used.

Also it should be noted that the actual distortion involved with tape machines is extremely difficult to virtually impossible to emulate correctly, as it varies with the machine, the recording speed, the tape type, the particular batch of tape, and the alignment of the electronics for the individual session, which is why all professional studios print tones on every single reel of tape. Even without factoring in the tape itself, magnetic saturation effects are notoriously difficult to emulate accurately. Most companies don't even try.

Again, I'm not trying to discourage you from trying plugins to get your sound - there are many distortion and "saturation" plugins that have useful musical effects - they just don't sound like a tape machine.

If a company was to make a real, SERIOUS effort to do this you would see a plugin that listed models of tape machine, recording speeds, and tape formulations. To my knowledge no company has even considered such a project. I would find it EXTERMELY interesting if some company were to rise o the challenge, but since the vast majority of companies claiming to "emulate" vintage gear actually only emulate the look of the front panel and the generic control functions I would be surprised to see such a thing anytime soon. If we do, I would bet money that it comes from one of the major DSP systems, such as the UAD or Liquidmix.

If anybody from any of those companies is reading this I would LOVE to see them take up the challenge. Our field needs more quality and less BS, particularly in software.

[allstar]

Originally Posted by John Eppstein

If a company was to make a real, SERIOUS effort to do this you would see a plugin that listed models of tape machine, recording speeds, and tape formulations. To my knowledge no company has even considered such a project. I would find it EXTERMELY interesting if some company were to rise o the challenge

McDSP AC2 addresses much of that.

[RTR]

TO much tape effect sounds like shit..even on a tape deck...YES I am from the analog days and back then everyone wanted better, now there is better and clearer and everyone bitches about that! ughhh

[Teddy Ray]

Originally Posted by John Eppstein

You have my apologies, sir. I had not noticed that you were one of those making a recommendation.

I don't mean to discourage anybody. However I do seek to help prevent people from wasting their money on products which do not perform as advertised. I have nothing against "warmer" plugins for those who need them - what I object to is the claim that they make digital recordings sound like tape - which they don't. There is an easy way to get the "tape sound" if you want it - run your tracks through a tape machine as an effect. Decent smaller tape machines are dirt cheap right now - often cheaper than the plugins that fail to emulate them. Alternately you can use a plugin to "warm up" the sound, which may or may not work for you. Unfortunately it is often extremely difficult to get to try such software before paying for it and once you open the shrink wrap you can't take it back.

What you seem to regard as an anti-digital bias is in fact a strong bias against the rampant consumer fraud that plagues the software industry and has done so since the advent of consumer software. If the companies advertised their products honestly I would have no objection.

Btw, I just noticed in your post the disclaimer that even the plugs you mentioned "don't get you all the way there"........

And tape doesn't need me to save it. The marketplace appears to be doing that just fine.

John, if you would just use a bit of tact..try to understand the other side, you know?

[Krank]

Originally Posted by John Eppstein

You have my apologies, sir. I had not noticed that you were one of those making a recommendation.

I don't mean to discourage anybody. However I do seek to help prevent people from wasting their money on products which do not perform as advertised. I have nothing against "warmer" plugins for those who need them - what I object to is the claim that they make digital recordings sound like tape - which they don't. There is an easy way to get the "tape sound" if you want it - run your tracks through a tape machine as an effect. Decent smaller tape machines are dirt cheap right now - often cheaper than the plugins that fail to emulate them. Alternately you can use a plugin to "warm up" the sound, which may or may not work for you. Unfortunately it is often extremely difficult to get to try such software before paying for it and once you open the shrink wrap you can't take it back.

What you seem to regard as an anti-digital bias is in fact a strong bias against the rampant consumer fraud that plagues the software industry and has done so since the advent of consumer software. If the companies advertised their products honestly I would have no objection.

Btw, I just noticed in your post the disclaimer that even the plugs you mentioned "don't get you all the way there"........

And tape doesn't need me to save it. The marketplace appears to be doing that just fine.

I'm in support of you, though I'm just a pretty casual observer.

My experience with tape emulations: ithey're just not good enough. Even Tapehead from much-touted Massey simply doesn't sound great when you listen closely (granted I've only been able to use the 'medium' setting as that's all there is available in AU). At least not useable for naturally recorded program material. Try it on electric guitar... not good.

When judging any saturation and compression plug-in, absolutely remember to A/B with peak levels at parity. I remember when I first tried out Vintage Warmer and went 'wow, this thing packs a punch'. When adjusting for the inevitable increased output, though... not so much.

And that's been my experience with all tape and saturation plug-ins Iive tried. You get grainy and annoying digital transient distortion in various shades, not the smooth warmth of real tape. Listen on expensive cans and you can absolutely tell the difference.

Nebula may be the one exception, I think this can go somewhere. But last I checked they hadn't sampled a pro tape machine correctly (presets all had too much colouring, which of course could be great for some things). That was about a year ago though.

[Brent Hahn]

Originally Posted by Teddy Ray

John, if you would just use a bit of tact..try to understand the other side, you know?

He averages over 38 posts a day. That much typing leaves little time for tact.

[John Eppstein]

Originally Posted by Teddy Ray

John, if you would just use a bit of tact..try to understand the other side, you know?

Point taken.

I just have a perennial bee in my bonnet about software companies that lie.

[Kiljoy]

Originally Posted by John Eppstein

NONE OF THEM SOUND LIKE TAPE! The Neve hardware box comes close.

All these guys recommending plugins probably haven't used tape in their lives.

Most of 'em probably haven't been in the same room with a multitrack.

Excuse me, I've worked with everything from Fostex E-16s to Studer A827s and although nothing comes close to being 'just like tape' there are some tools, be them plugins or hardware, that can have similar effects on audio as tape...

[fallforward]

I use the massey tapehead, I use it on a parrallel send with BFD2 and AD, I don't know if it sounds like tape but it sounds better with it than without!!!

[3rdeyeKnight]

UAD has emulated all kinds of stuff right on down to a garden-hose based delay, but yet have steered clear of tackling that elusive tape-machine.

I've been waiting for the day, but I'm beginning to think that they too have realized what some of you experienced tape-guys have been saying in these threads for a while now.

I can only imagine that they're thinking is "if we cant get atleast 90% there then it wont be worth ruining our reputation with this one".