Editing out headphone bleed.(fade or not)

[skiroy]

If I have say BGV that have headphone bleed when the artist is not harmonizing I know to just cut it out of the mix completely. But I have noticed a choppyness associated with doing this. My question how much time should be left at the begining and end of each BGV harmony part to avoid this and do you guys fade the part in and out so it doesnt pop in abrubtly and go dead silent after its passed? How do you do this in sonar? Do you hightlight the whole part and fade out or only the very end? How much(time wise) should I select to be faded?

[dbbubba]

Do a fade up or out that sounds natural.
That's all you can do.

What sound is leaking through that is causing a problem?
Is it stuff that isn't supposed to be heard in the final mix?

[The MPCist]

It you're noticing the fadein/outs, just leave them be. Sometimes just leaving them will sound more natural then adrupt fade ins/outs....

There's only so much you can do unless you're the producer where you can add some new stuff to the arrangement to cover up certain areas....

[skiroy]

Originally Posted by The MPCist

It you're noticing the fadein/outs, just leave them be. Sometimes just leaving them will sound more natural then adrupt fade ins/outs....

There's only so much you can do unless you're the producer where you can add some new stuff to the arrangement to cover up certain areas....

You cant hear the headphone bleed really in the mix except in the intro when the song is sparse. I once the song gets going it is not noticable but If I solo the Backround Vocals its deffinately there especially when I compressed the BGV. But from what I was told all that bleed in the mix even though you dont notice it as much adds up sonically to muddyness and taking it out will tighten/clean up the mix.This is pop so bleeding is not desirable right?

[starfighter]

Buy new and better cans; Sony MDR7506, Beyer DT770, AKG24o (with the low impedance) or similar.

I believe I heard something about phase inverting the headphone feed, but have never had much of a problem with bleed...

M

[skiroy]

Everyone says get new headphones. Is it not common practice to manually edit the headphone bleed? Are gates on a lead vocal for bleed a no no?

[Led]

Just edit it out really tightly. Put mega short fades up and down right at the beginning and end of words. You can do it manually much better than with a gate. If it's phrasing wth a lead vocal you can often fade the tail down just a tiny bit before the word ends and get away with it because the lead vocal finishes the word anyway. Same with the head, you can fade up say 5 ms later than the lead vocal and get away with it. As long as they phrase the same that is.

[ebot9000]

I always edit BGs together at the exact same points, especially at the entry points. If they are in stereo, this helps everything stay balanced.

Sometimes it's helpful to put the cuts on the downbeat of a bar, since the ear naturally expects changes in sound at those points.

From what you describe, maybe you should just automate volume drops on those tracks rather than full-on cuts.

But from what you're saying, it sounds like you think it sounds better without editing the BGs, but you're doing it anyways because it's convention. Turning on and off mics isn't always going to sound right, depending on the material, and if they aren't "muddying up the mix" or making things messy, just leave them in. Do whatever sounds best.

If someone else is mixing, you can always edit later if necessary.

[audionickw]

i would just leave it in except where it is apparent in the whole mix. i'd rather have that bleed than choppy unnatural crap. I even know a guy who when he cuts something out of a track completely, finds some "dead air" from that mic or from somewhere else and pastes it in the hole so it's natural and consistent sounding

[apeak]

Did you track the BGVs? Were they done in your studio? Do you have access to the mic and headphones that were used? Do you remember the distance the singer(s) were from the mic?

If 'yes' to all of the above, you could don the same headphones, stand in the same location as the singers and record just the headphone bleed to a separate track. Then invert the phase of the bleed track and play with its volume while monitoring just the BGV track to see if you can get the bleed to cancel out.

If that alone doesn't cut it, go to the very beginning of the audio, zoom in all the way, and move the bleed track to start exactly at the start-point of the audio. This will ensure that it is exactly out of phase and you might be able to get even more cancellation.

Don't ever change the phase of the headphone send when recording BGVs. If you do that and leave the bleed in, it will mess with the rest of the audio.

Closed-back headphones are really the best way to go and are fully worth the investment. The Sony's mentioned in a previous post retail for only $99.

Hope this helps.

[skiroy]

what about using waves noise removal plug where you can play the headphone bleed as the plug learns what to cut out?

[apeak]

Oops. I left a step out:
Once you get the BGVs and the out-of-phase bleed track to cancel out, mix these two tracks down to a new track and use the new track in your final mix.

[fallforward]

I just edit it and put in fades, that is where your PT multi tool skills can shine, or really hold you back! I am unfamiliar with Sonar so sorry no short cuts!

I would never use a gate for this application, maybe that's just me.
Robby

[chrysb93065]

Sonar user, here. What if you don't compress the BGV's, so the noise floor (bleed) doesn't come out as much. Less is more, bring everything down so you don't have to boost the BGV's so much. As far as the beginning goes, in Sonar, zoom in on the opening tracks and slip edit the beginning of the actual audio as close as you can, and put it a tiny fade-in. Right click on the fade and change it to fast fade - and curve sloping up on the inside. No one will hear anything until they actually start singing. Do that to all the entrances and breaks, add some reverb to just the BGV's to cover, or let the lead vocal finish the phrases. Experiment until it's not a surprise when they start singing. If the bleed is really bad, it would be better to create an volume envelope for each BGV, and add nodes to automate the noise before and in-between the sections. Don't bring it down to nothing, just less, so it's not a surprise. If you can hear significant bleed when they sing, consider re-tracking with less playback in the cans, or just guitar or keyboard to guide them. Hope some of this helps.

[steveschizoid]

Try the Extreme Isolation EX-29 headphones. And remind the talent that they may want to use their ears in coming years. Otherwise, automate out the bleed.