Questions about mixes and they should sound before at pre-master stage...

[KingDiamond]

So I'm working on my mixes, it's my own music and I have never been to a real studio before. I'm using Cubase 5 and I think I have my mixes pretty polished. Now what level should the mix be at at this stage, the pre-master stage? I'm recording/mixing hard rock and heavy metal. I use EZ Drummer for drums and I find that just playing the EZ Drummer VSTi in Cubase it is already showing the "clip" indicator on the master bus in Cubase. I have read that you want at least -6 dbfs at the pre-master mix. So does that mean I should turn down the faders of all of the tracks until it's hitting -6 dbfs on the master bus in Cubase?

Also I have the Sonnox Elite bundle which is my primary set of mixing tools. I find that if I use the Sonnox Limiter with about 2db of gain on the master bus then my mix sounds much fuller. If I turn off the limiter, the levels of the guitars and bass are much quieter compared to the drums and even if I turn up the guitars and bass it doesn't have the sound I want. Is it frowned upon to use a limiter on a pre-master mix?

[Bob Olhsson]

Turn the mix down so it doesn't clip and the monitor volume control up.

Make the mix sound utterly awesome without worrying about volume.

[chrysb93065]

No limiting on a pre-master bus. Let it breathe. Let the ME worry about getting it up to 'commercial' levels, it's part of his job.

[Waltz Mastering]

Originally Posted by KingDiamond

. Is it frowned upon to use a limiter on a pre-master mix?

Yes, If you plan on sending out any mixes to get mastered, you are really restricting what can be done in the mastering stage by adding a limiter.

Make a mix for yourself to listen to if you want with a limiter on, but it is highly recommended to never to send a mix out for mastering with a limiter on.

Originally Posted by Bob Olhsson

Turn the mix down so it doesn't clip and the monitor volume control up.

Make the mix sound utterly awesome without worrying about volume.

+1

[meymia]

2 questions please...

1) 0.3 is the recommended volume to send to mastering right?

2) A compressor on the master is of course more common right?

Thanks!

[swankdoc]

This is from the website of the guy I use for mastering:

GUIDELINES FOR PREPARING MIXES FOR MASTERING

Here are some general suggestions for achieving good musical results. They are based on experience mastering thousands of projects! Certain mix parameters can really help to make your music sound its best.

• No loudness plug-ins (L1, Maxim, etc.) on the final mix. Minimum compression, if any is used at all. Mix compression, if needed, will generally work best done here. Compression of track elements should be done during mixing.

• Medium levels work best! RMS / PROGRAM levels should be between -16dBFS and -12dBFS. These are not PEAK levels, as most DAWs show onscreen. Get some meters that show RMS levels. In most cases, levels are most effective (and sound best) if Master Faders are kept at 0. Adjust track and group levels to obtain the proper RMS mix levels.

• More bass is better than less. It is virtually impossible to "add" bass where there is none. However, when there is too much, it can be controlled and made to sound good. Most "home" studio mixing environments have way too much low end in the room (nodes of reinforcement). The mixer hears too much bass and tends to reduce bass in the mix to compensate.

• Overly loud mixes with way too little bass are the two most common faults in incoming mixes to be mastered. RMS metering and a Spectrum Analyzer can help tremendously.

• Less high end is better than too much. It is very difficult to have a nice sounding track when the incoming mixes are too high-endy or harsh (watch those washy cymbals and high hats). It is easier to add brightness than reduce it to achieve a proper balance in mastering. This works just the opposite of the bass guidelines.

• A good mix is balanced. If in doubt, refer to the above guidelines and remember my golden rule of music production: Less Is More.

[swafford]

Originally Posted by Bob Olhsson

Turn the mix down so it doesn't clip and the monitor volume control up.

Make the mix sound utterly awesome without worrying about volume.

Didn't I hear you say once, Bob, that the 2 bus shouldn't be hitting above -15? Or was that Dave Davis? To many mastering engineers, not enough brain cells to store their wisdom.

[allstar]

Originally Posted by swankdoc

This is from the website of the guy I use for mastering:

I have to disagree with your guy about leaving compression to the mastering stage.

[robot gigante]

Originally Posted by allstar

I have to disagree with your guy about leaving compression to the mastering stage.

Agreed. That's BS.

[Bob Olhsson]

Originally Posted by swafford

Didn't I hear you say once, Bob, that the 2 bus shouldn't be hitting above -15? Or was that Dave Davis? To many mastering engineers, not enough brain cells to store their wisdom.

I aim at -10 and accept anything between -15 and -6.

My reason is to keep the analog stages of the converters out of the stress area. I don't want mix decisions attempting to compensate for shortcomings of a particular monitoring D to A.