How's the engineering business?

[Magnum29465]

I'm just an amatuer doing this for fun and personal satisfaction. For all you pro's how is the engineering business, and how do you really make a living doing this? I would think with the cost of equipment and the lack of money in music it would be tough to run a profitable studio. Where does most of your customers comes from? I would think income has to be unstable... How many people get rich running studios and engineering?

What are yall's experience?

[psycho_monkey]

Originally Posted by Magnum29465

How many people get rich running studios and engineering??

The people who get rich running studios? the only one I can think of it Tom Misner (founder and owner of SAE, which strictly speaking is an engineering school first and foremost).

Money aint the motivating factor.

[Magnum29465]

Originally Posted by psycho_monkey

The people who get rich running studios? the only one I can think of it Tom Misner (founder and owner of SAE, which strictly speaking is an engineering school first and foremost).

Money aint the motivating factor.

All dedication huh?

[Igotsoul4u]

Its much different then it used to be. You used to be able to make comfortable living before all these schools popped up and recording went to the bedroom.

[Nfinite2006]

^^very true

[Magnum29465]

So I guess yall expect alot of the studio's nation wide to eventually dry up and die out? What will all the gear slut members do?

also how are yall able to pay for all that gear if your income is so limited or if your margins are so slim?

[surflounge]

The joy of recording great talent is reward enough. Seems to be a direct ratio to high skill level = low dough in the player's pocket. When you can't shake anymore money out of em, make the world better and let em play.
Besides, my gear gets rusty if it ain't kept running.

[psycho_monkey]

Originally Posted by Magnum29465

So I guess yall expect alot of the studio's nation wide to eventually dry up and die out? What will all the gear slut members do?

also how are yall able to pay for all that gear if your income is so limited or if your margins are so slim?

A large proportion of the old-stlye rooms have already, the rest have evolved.

There'll always be ways to record music - hopefully the rooms will still exist where it's possible to do a quality job.

The upside of technology is that it's now possible for many producers and engineers to have their own spaces to work on projects that would otherwise have been unprofitable.

[Makinithappen]

Originally Posted by Magnum29465

So I guess yall expect alot of the studio's nation wide to eventually dry up and die out?

You haven't been paying attention... it's been heading that way for years.

Originally Posted by Magnum29465

I would think income has to be unstable...

The income is rarely stable. Very good sometimes, non-existent other times... and I'm at a pretty busy studio compared to many.

The people I know that do very well in the music business are either already wealthy from something else or doing corporate work.

[SCDBM]

It's not about gear anymore, it's about adding expertise and value and only in pockets where the bedroom studio can not provide. so find the niche and complement rather than try to compete....

[Magnum29465]

Originally Posted by Makinithappen

You haven't been paying attention... it's been heading that way for years.

I haven't really been in the industry. I'm one of these "bedroom" guy's... I have some expendable income that I choose to spend on compressors and such..

[shaneoconnor]

i am pretty low on the totem pole in terms of price. i am often undercut by someone who is "free" or recording at some school (there are two huge facilities in Boston.

These schools really suck.

[ankely]

I'm amazed and admire the guys that can still make a living in a studio. thumbsup

I was pretty disenchanted with it and left it in the mid Nineties as I had kids to feed.

Although being a tech on the road pays stoopid money !!!

[Darwin James]

Im glad it's thinning out. Because studios have been ripping people off for many years. Yea, I said it.

[Makinithappen]

Originally Posted by ankely

I'm amazed and admire the guys that can still make a living in a studio. thumbsup

It's kinda weird... all of my friends with 9-5s admire me and all I want is a normal job with weekends!

Originally Posted by Darwin James

Im glad it's thinning out. Because studios have been ripping people off for many years. Yea, I said it.

I often agree with you on this forum but that is the dumbest thing I've ever heard you say.

You are implying there is no worth in recording with someone who has made records for years? I'm sure you have more tricks up your sleeve.

I guess every single major artist is getting ripped off... while the songs you make are doing so well that you can justify that comment........

[psycho_monkey]

Originally Posted by Darwin James

Im glad it's thinning out. Because studios have been ripping people off for many years. Yea, I said it.

I'd like to agree with the post above mine - Darwin, I like a lot of what you say but you really have no clue here.

[Magnum29465]

Originally Posted by ankely

I'm amazed and admire the guys that can still make a living in a studio. thumbsup

I was pretty disenchanted with it and left it in the mid Nineties as I had kids to feed.

Although being a tech on the road pays stoopid money !!!

what does a tech on the road do? is that basically a live show engineer?

[Batchainpuller78]

I think it's fixing up gear that breaks down

If you want to make money repairing the stuff that breaks on the road or in the studio is a pretty solid income as there will always be enough stuff that goes kaput.
Kinda like an undertaker also pretty stable

[warhead]

This is one of those things where the "death" of many studios won't be due to lack of talent or work ethic of the owner / engineer, but the fact that recording gear is now priced within the hands of the masses and this simply was not so 15 years ago. Of course 15 to 20 years ago is when a lot of Mackie 8 buss + ADAT studios started popping up because they too saw an inexpensive way to start a studio. 20 years ago I was 17 so...4 track cassette was all I could afford and an ADAT seemed expensive. Also, back then a proper studio microphone was at least a $1000, considered high end pricing now!

Now that computers are involved, you can get away with at least demo quality stuff at home. I have also heard some amazing stuff recorded in home studios! Everybody owns a computer so, there's a lot of your expense right there.

The one thing that isn't realized by many home studio artists recording themselves is that being the writer / performer and trying to be the "engineer" is hard, almost impossible in many ways. What I mean is, one will win out as your major source of interest and the other ways you are involved with music will wither on the vine. So if you get more turned on by the process of recording, your musician side will slowly start to die. It's a sad fact but true, I know because it happened to me!

When you care more about your preamp collection to hear your acoustic guitar and vocals through in the home studio, and less about the actual song and your playing, you enter a strange territory that is impossible to return from. You're now never likely to enter a professional recording studio again as a paying customer, or far less likely. You also may end up recording a friend's band for a little bit of cash, further eliminating the need for pro engineers. I'm not saying it's better, a lot of times though it is "good enough" for a demo.

I think studios with nice rooms should promote those rooms, it's the one thing you have that a home studio doesn't typically: a great sounding space. If your place doesn't sound great, and you don't talk it up and get the word out, it will be hard to stay booked.

War

[Jim Williams]

Engineering is doing pretty good considering the economy.

Audio engineering, well, that's another story...

"To many mixers, not enough fixers"?

Jim Williams
Audio Upgrades

[Infernal Device]

Originally Posted by warhead

This is one of those things where the "death" of many studios won't be due to lack of talent or work ethic of the owner / engineer, but the fact that recording gear is now priced within the hands of the masses and this simply was not so 15 years ago. Of course 15 to 20 years ago is when a lot of Mackie 8 buss + ADAT studios started popping up because they too saw an inexpensive way to start a studio. 20 years ago I was 17 so...4 track cassette was all I could afford and an ADAT seemed expensive. Also, back then a proper studio microphone was at least a $1000, considered high end pricing now!

Now that computers are involved, you can get away with at least demo quality stuff at home. I have also heard some amazing stuff recorded in home studios! Everybody owns a computer so, there's a lot of your expense right there.

The one thing that isn't realized by many home studio artists recording themselves is that being the writer / performer and trying to be the "engineer" is hard, almost impossible in many ways. What I mean is, one will win out as your major source of interest and the other ways you are involved with music will wither on the vine. So if you get more turned on by the process of recording, your musician side will slowly start to die. It's a sad fact but true, I know because it happened to me!

When you care more about your preamp collection to hear your acoustic guitar and vocals through in the home studio, and less about the actual song and your playing, you enter a strange territory that is impossible to return from. You're now never likely to enter a professional recording studio again as a paying customer, or far less likely. You also may end up recording a friend's band for a little bit of cash, further eliminating the need for pro engineers. I'm not saying it's better, a lot of times though it is "good enough" for a demo.

I think studios with nice rooms should promote those rooms, it's the one thing you have that a home studio doesn't typically: a great sounding space. If your place doesn't sound great, and you don't talk it up and get the word out, it will be hard to stay booked.

War

Great post!

I do this full-time, not wealthy by anyone's definition. It has it's highs and *really* has it's lows.

I get the artists that have no idea how to record themselves and have no desire to try.

For those that have recorded themselves in the past, I get them because I try my best to be easy, fun, affordable and have the stuff that they wish they could afford.

I think that Darwin may have nailed a point, many studios have treated artists like "get them in and out" and giving them nothing more than a hopped-up demo.

Every time I hear an engineer/studio complain about home recording taking their business I have only two things I notice...

1. They are giving artists the same quality they could do themselves. Do better.

2. They are giving the same environment they can do themselves. Do better.

Do something they cannot. If you can't do any better than a beginner, find another job.

[ankely]

Originally Posted by Magnum29465

what does a tech on the road do? is that basically a live show engineer?

Techs, formerly known as roadies, do many things, sometimes it's show engineer, monitor engineer, guitar, bass, keyboard, etc. instrument setup and maintenance, stage managers, road managers, merchandising, lighting, video, Pro Tools, etc. Many things.

It's a different kind of gig. You travel, obviously not home much, and that is part of the reason for the better pay. It also tends to be a very high expectations kind of gig, sometimes long hours, high stress, uncomfortable schedules, etc.

When I taught at a music tech school, I often encouraged my students to look into this work. It's one of the few places where one can make a living. I likened it to being a "Navy Seal". The best of the best. Road guys are far less micromanaged and nitpicked at doing their jobs. But getting to that position comes at a cost: discipline, self-motivation, dependability, self-reliance, etc. and an ability to stay educated and informed about the gig in a myriad of ways. Lots of self-education. It's not an easy gig. Kinda closer to being a McGuyver than an assembly line worker or a middle manager. LOL.

Needless to say, I had maybe a handful of students that could hack this kinda work. LOL.

Unfortunately, with the Economic Meltdown, these guys have been hit hard too. Historically, it's a decent career field.

This site maybe useful:

TourSupport.net - Entertainment Touring Pros from Roadie to Rock Star - with classifieds, links and referrals for roadies, lighting techs, instrument techs, rock stars, weekend warriors and other entertainment touring professionals - find Tourbus, To

[James Meeker]

A few months back I saw where things were heading for this industry so I opted out. I'm going back to college. If things change I can always jump back in the game without much problem; if not I'll have a degree in computer engineering and do that.

[Magnum29465]

Originally Posted by James Meeker

A few months back I saw where things were heading for this industry so I opted out. I'm going back to college. If things change I can always jump back in the game without much problem; if not I'll have a degree in computer engineering and do that.

how old are you?

[Makinithappen]

Originally Posted by James Meeker

A few months back I saw where things were heading for this industry so I opted out. I'm going back to college. If things change I can always jump back in the game without much problem; if not I'll have a degree in computer engineering and do that.

Thats probably smart... If I had more flexible hours at the studio, I would already be back in school.


Kind of a catch 22...

[James Meeker]

Originally Posted by Magnum29465

how old are you?

I'm 37. Not sure what that has to do with anything.

[James Meeker]

Originally Posted by Makinithappen

Thats probably smart... If I had more flexible hours at the studio, I would already be back in school.


Kind of a catch 22...

Sometimes you have to take a step back in order to take three steps forwards.

[Magnum29465]

Originally Posted by James Meeker

I'm 37. Not sure what that has to do with anything.

I was just curious. i'm about to turn 30 and I'm already afraid to go back to school. For some reasons i have reservations about going back to school... and I'm also interested in computer engineering...

[bobsandifer]

This is all I do full time and all I can tell you is I wish the 80's rates were back. I dont miss bending over the huge consoles but I do miss the money.

edit: However, I cant imagine doing anything else at my age.

[James Meeker]

Originally Posted by Magnum29465

I was just curious. i'm about to turn 30 and I'm already afraid to go back to school. For some reasons i have reservations about going back to school... and I'm also interested in computer engineering...

I had some reservations because of my age, but I refuse to let "age discrimination" affect the arc and scope of my life. You are never too old to change or to learn. Go for it if that's what you want to do.

Previously I had worked in the tech/marketing field. The last day job I had was producing radio and TV advertisements, although before that I had worked in the search engine advertisement industry. I figure getting the degree to match my work experience makes sense. And like I said, I can always jump back in to music if I see an opportunity.

Mainly I want the finances to be able to open my own studio and operate it how I want to. It'll probably be a part-time thing, but I can't imagine throwing music to the curb 100% forever.