The ULN-8 is here!

[sasha222]

Originally Posted by sdevino

It works with the Euphonix and Mackie hardware controllers.

I actually use a Contour Design Shuttle Express via USB mapped to my ULN8's Monitor control. I have master volume, dim, mute and speaker select mapped to the contour express. Works great.


Steve Devino

thats great. thanks for the info.

[mh_bj]

Originally Posted by sasha222

Using a mac, connected by Firewire, can you use 2 core audio apps at the same with the ULN-2? This is not supported with the Orpheus. Is the ULN-2 class compliant or does it have its own FW driver?

Yes -- you can use multiple apps. In fact, coupled with MIO Console, you can use it to route audio between multiple apps.


The ULN-8 uses our driver (it is not class compliant). This driver has been in constant development for OS X since its initial release with Mac OS 10.2. It is extremely stable, and very low latency. It also supports multiple boxes and multiple applications. We have ensured that it has been ready for every new OS release on day one since OS 10.2.


Best regards,

B.J. Buchalter

[mh_bj]

Originally Posted by sasha222

thats great. thanks for the info.

Also -- remember that the ULN-8 has a dedicated front panel knob for controlling the Monitor Controller as well.

Best regards,

B.J. Buchalter
Metric Halo

[sasha222]

Originally Posted by mh_bj

Also -- remember that the ULN-8 has a dedicated front panel knob for controlling the Monitor Controller as well.

Best regards,

B.J. Buchalter
Metric Halo

Thanks B.J.

Would you kindly post a hi-res pic of the front? The ones on the MH site are too small to see the controls.

[hank alrich]

Originally Posted by sonicdefault

If that is a decent quote, it's outrageously too expensive.


-SD

What experience do you have with Metric Halo kit? As a user of an early (#450) 2882+DSP, and having been in pro audio since 1968, I say that personally the MIO is among the very highest quality pieces I have ever owned or used, and that in terms of value for money spent, it is over the top good.

Mind you, I recently sold the Studer 1" I bought new in the 1970's, I have built a console around API components, blah blah blah.

Metric Halo equipment is extremely cost effective. If it's not built to a suitable standard of soon-to-be-obsolete cheapness, that is some other people's problem, not mine, nor Metric Halo's.

Anybody wants cheap crap can find it everywhere. Stuff this good for similar money is pretty rare.

[Dave Davis]

Originally Posted by Plush

I abandoned it recently. I hope that the first release of non beta soft is stable now.
It has many fine features and good sound.

Well, there were a lot of issues in the transition to the front panel, and versions of the firmware were out that talked to ULN8s with/without them, which makes things tricky. If you bailed within the last 9 months or so, that would explain your experiences. I've seen it too.

Prior to that, Henry's comments apply - it's called beta for a reason.

A lot of folks get on beta teams to get cool gear cheap. That's cool, but part of the bargain is you have to report instabilities, and work through the issues you cite. If you don't stay with it they can't be fixed. For this reason, you shouldn't rely on beta stuff for production work.

Key word there: Rely. My ULN8 was in the production racks for years, and I don't think a work days gone by where audio didn't pass through it. But there were days I shut it off and used PT alone, for business reasons. I don't like inflicting my jones on paying customers after all.

-d-

[Jake]

Originally Posted by BlackestEyes

Not to sound like an a hole but this is a professional product and is priced accordingly imo. It's not like professional hardware products are cheap. I would rather spring 6k for this piece of gear than the equivalent amount in plugins.

Exactly! I'll be the first to admit this is waaaay out of my price range. That doesn't mean it isn't a good value.

If someone offered a two channel interface with Lavry quality A/D/A, two top notch pres with inserts, and monitoring for $1500 (roughly 1/4 of the ULN-8 price)-- people would say it was a steal. I haven't head the ULN-8 and I have no idea if it's really that good or not, but if it is, it's price point is actually pretty damn extraordinary (though still quite unaffordable for many of us).

[Dave Davis]

Originally Posted by Silver Sonya

Love the single rack space elegance and convenience. And I can't picture better sounding conversion --- literally can't imagine how it could be improved. The sound is... well, it seems perfect to me. The Prism Orpheus sound... almost makes me feel tingly. It's that good.

Well, they're definitely in the same class, so I get what you're saying. A great converter like these (or Lavry's for that matter) definitely make me feel tingly.

The goal was simple: the waveform coming out the back should be identical as possible to the one coming in the front. Not better. Not "warmer" or "cleaner" or anything-er. Input = Output. This can be measured objectively, and also subjectively (Turing Test: compare the same identical source in real time pre/post conversion and score your ability to distinguish between them). To that end, there's a giant gulf between devices like those mentioned and stuff coming from MOTU or Digi, and other more affordable kit. It is what it is.

And as someone else has noted, this is often a matter of taste like wines. The differences can be ephemeral and hard to quantify at this level. Not so here. The key difference is phase coherence. The DC analog section is completely unique in this regard. It's converters are phase and power linear (e.g. identical time and amplitude response, input:output) 0Hz-Nyquist. I don't know if Prism's analog sections are DC, but as soon as you insert a capacitor or transformer in the circuit, that linearity is g-g-g-gone, to some extent or another (think about how capacitors work, and you see what I mean). Add those components, and yeah, you're talking fine wines - which flavor do you prefer? In my work that's easy: clear, distilled water. For tracking, it might be different... the ULN8 covers this with "Character" modules, but many prefer to take the electrical route to nirvana. YMMV.

Anyway, that's how it can be improved over other converters I've used. You can see it on a scope - feed your unit some square waves <20Hz and watch the output shape. This phase coherence is what led me to prefer the ULN8 to my 2882 or my Mytek, even at low s/r's.

Having said all this, I'm trying to ascertain whether or not this ULN-8 is, in fact, the sole market peer/competitor for the Orpheus. It seems that way to me.

And, if so, can anyone tell me succinctly what the distinguishing characteristics from the Orpheus are, specifically?

It may be. The distinguishing features I use are:
- 4 extra pres
- analog domain sends (e.g. you can route the pre's outputs to other analog devices)
- (related) capable of using pres entirely separated from the line inputs (e.g. you could feed your Orpheus from the ULN8s pres if you prefer it's converters - could you feed the ULN8's AD from the Orpheus' pres? if so it's a wash)
- A high resolution analog domain monitor volume control and extensive routing capabilities (feeding multiple DAWs from a single FW stream, without hacks like Soundflower or HiJack).

I'm saying this not with a challenging tone, but with a curiosity. I can't imagine being happier than I am with the Orpheus.

I hear ya Silver. You probably won't be! If you're happy, you're happy. No one said you need to sell your Orpheus and jump on this train. It's great kit. Why worry?

p.s. I use the Orpheus with a Dangerous D-Box and a modest complement of outboard gear (Thermionic Culture Phoenix, Distressor, Smart C1, etc.) that I think is also phenomenal-sounding. I'm a little bit confused about the functionality of the ULN8... does it aim to obviate something like the Dangerous?

Oh, I almost missed this...

yes, in fact at my old job I have indeed used it as a super-summer, with analogish-flavorings available for individual channels, sub-mixes, or the master bus. It's the first device I've used that allows fully reciprocal processing: strings of gain changes, eqs, etc that sum back to the source levels null! The clarity, transparency and absolute fidelity (input=output when desired) of the mix bus itself is simply unachievable in the analog domain.

That's really the key to ULN8 benefits: It provides a strong argument for working entirely ITB. You pay a penalty for leaving the box - not because the converters are lacking, but because of the inherent limitations of AES/EBU (2 mandatory24 bits, fixed point, requant steps) and analog tie lines/interconnects. There is ALWAYS a loss when you leave the box. Until the 8, that loss has been less significant than the losses/limitations of conventional DAW-based DSP.

Finally, the 8's routing capabilities make it a very capable signal router and monitor controller. You can assign any number of sources to any number of different outputs... this includes surround, mono, left/right only... whatever you can think of.

This creates entirely new capabilities: I had a "nulling path" in my controller at the old gig that let me hear the "difference" signal at any time - so you can hear space monkeys accrue as you clamp down bitrates on real time Dolby boxes and stuff like that. Or you can drop different "models" into the path - I had an "auratone" path, enabling me to dump my auratones and just use Lipinskis. But I'm a monitor geek, so YMMV.

-d-

[sonicdefault]

Originally Posted by hank alrich

What experience do you have with Metric Halo kit? As a user of an early (#450) 2882+DSP, and having been in pro audio since 1968, I say that personally the MIO is among the very highest quality pieces I have ever owned or used, and that in terms of value for money spent, it is over the top good.

Mind you, I recently sold the Studer 1" I bought new in the 1970's, I have built a console around API components, blah blah blah.

Metric Halo equipment is extremely cost effective. If it's not built to a suitable standard of soon-to-be-obsolete cheapness, that is some other people's problem, not mine, nor Metric Halo's.

Anybody wants cheap crap can find it everywhere. Stuff this good for similar money is pretty rare.

I'll take your word for it. If this device meets your needs and you think it justifies the cost, that's all that matters.



-SD

[androne]

Originally Posted by Dave Davis

....Or you can drop different "models" into the path - I had an "auratone" path, enabling me to dump my auratones and just use Lipinskis. ....-d-

WOW, thats cool!
Man, I wish the ULN8 was not so expensive, I would buy it right this instance.

For me I have already made the decision to sell my Orpheus.
This is a train I dont wanna miss.

Why ? For portability and flexibility. Having a mixing/monitoring/recording rig this SMALL but so powerful is insane.


Can Anyone tell me if the audio/mixing engine (80 bit) has been further improved or anything ?

[kbshearer]

Henry...or whoever knows the answer to this:

Keeping in mind that my only experience with Metric Halo is momentary...Does the ULN-8 have the same type of architecture as the 2882 in that you have (if I remember) 18 busses via firewire that you can route to from your DAW? I like working in DP but don't like the summing as much, so I'm very interested in using the ULN-8 to "sum." If I remember, you have 18 busses with the 2882 for this. Is this the same with the ULN-8? IF you have more than one ULN-8 do you get more busses? Thanks...

Kirt Shearer
Paradise Studios

[henryrobinett]

Originally Posted by kbshearer

Henry...or whoever knows the answer to this:

Keeping in mind that my only experience with Metric Halo is momentary...Does the ULN-8 have the same type of architecture as the 2882 in that you have (if I remember) 18 busses via firewire that you can route to from your DAW? I like working in DP but don't like the summing as much, so I'm very interested in using the ULN-8 to "sum." If I remember, you have 18 busses with the 2882 for this. Is this the same with the ULN-8? IF you have more than one ULN-8 do you get more busses? Thanks...

Kirt Shearer
Paradise Studios

Hey Kirt!

Yes. There are 18, -- actually 20 busses, but the last two are for smpte, or something like that. Multiple MIOs of whatever variety, like 2882, ULN-2 or ULN-8, can be connnected for more DAW channels. 18 + 18 +18, per box.

I regularly use two boxes and rarely more, for mixing.

[hank alrich]

Originally Posted by Jake

If someone offered a two channel interface with Lavry quality A/D/A, two top notch pres with inserts, and monitoring for $1500 (roughly 1/4 of the ULN-8 price)-- people would say it was a steal. .

I think you have just described the Metric Halo ULN-2. Certainly the legacy version can be found used for less than that, and is competitive.

[imusic]

just checked a device today at AES 126 in Munich and have to admit

a very fine hardware box!
I was not able to check the quality of the sound but it looks fantastic and the software is very impressive :-) !

congratulations, andy


btw very funny, I have seen the 2882 at the premier on an AES and now the ULN8, ...

[kbshearer]

Henry,

Thanks for the info. That's what I suspected, but I knew you'd know for sure. I've been an "analog summing" guy, but this makes me re-think that....I'll be talking to you soon about this. Thanks!

Kirt Shearer
Paradise Studios

[Silver Sonya]

Someone should merge these two threads.

- c

[MonoBrow]

This looks incredible.Out of my hobby range but man...MetricHalo quality in this package.thumbsup

[Pr.tiouz]

I would have prefered an expandable 8 to 24I/O box of only converters and some 8 pre boxes to connect to it. Metric would have reached the preamp buyers market and the one that already have preamps too.
and if you put at it 2 adat channel you have an the possibility to make zero latency monitoring of up to 40 channels, with the actual boxes you are limited to 18 and that's too small for most of my sessions we also need more than 4 stereo mixes for cans so this is not an option for me.
but maybe it's just me.

[hank alrich]

Originally Posted by Pr.tiouz

I would have prefered an expandable 8 to 24I/O box of only converters and some 8 pre boxes to connect to it. Metric would have reached the preamp buyers market and the one that already have preamps too.
and if you put at it 2 adat channel you have an the possibility to make zero latency monitoring of up to 40 channels, with the actual boxes you are limited to 18 and that's too small for most of my sessions we also need more than 4 stereo mixes for cans so this is not an option for me.
but maybe it's just me.

There are already at least half a million ways to do just what you're suggesting. The Metric Halo stuff is sharp because they offer something else for those who are looking for that.

Further, by using multiple units one can achieve some remarkable input and output setups.

[sdevino]

Originally Posted by Pr.tiouz

I would have prefered an expandable 8 to 24I/O box of only converters and some 8 pre boxes to connect to it. Metric would have reached the preamp buyers market and the one that already have preamps too.
and if you put at it 2 adat channel you have an the possibility to make zero latency monitoring of up to 40 channels, with the actual boxes you are limited to 18 and that's too small for most of my sessions we also need more than 4 stereo mixes for cans so this is not an option for me.
but maybe it's just me.

Well its not perfect but there are several Beta testers using multiple ULN8's to get near 40 channels. It currently requires some interbox routing to achieve but it is manageable.

Many of us have moved to mono headphone mixes as well. You might try it. I use it with live pit musicians for the past year and so far everyone who has tried it likes it very much (or at least not complained). The advantage is there is no spatial info in your ears that conflicts with what you see around you. So they settle in on the mix a lot more quickly.

Steve

[Jimbo]

Originally Posted by henryrobinett

I know! I'm contemplating what else to empty!

So, what does your kit consist of now, Henry?

[henryrobinett]

Originally Posted by Jimbo

So, what does your kit consist of now, Henry?

Right now my kit consists of two ULN-8s, ULN-2/2d and 2882+dsp/2d, Millennia HV-3D that is coupled with the 2882, Millennia TD-1, Millennia Quad, which is going unused. Peavy AMR VC/L-2 opto compressor limiter, which is also going unused.

[loji]

I'll trade someone a 900 SE SAAB v6 convertible (first and only V6 they ever made) in green for a ULN-8 I'm in NYC, and it's in San Diego. (alot of good it's doing me huh) Currently living at my girlfriends parents house, but would look much better under your butt driving up the 1 ... I'll sit in the trenches on the gritty east coast with your ULN, and you play in the sun in my Saab ..... fair trade

[UnMix Studio]

Why so expensive? Cost more than most box on the market.

[The Cube]

Originally Posted by UnMix Studio

Why so expensive? Cost more than most box on the market.

dude READ the info on the product. it´s the BEST technology on all fronts: converters, preamps, DSP, blablabla. ALL in one 1U.

Like having the engine of a lamborguini, with the design of a ferrari with interiors by porche or wareva. Why so expensive? guess why. And if you look at it as a whole, its quite cheap all things taken in consideration.

[Coyoteous]

I dunno... I think this unit has either too many or too few channels, and lacks adequate connectivity for both prosumer, pro and audiophile usage. In fact, they should just scrap all the digital stuff and make into a big badass mono tube compressor... or maybe a video camera. Oh, and it costs too much.

[Gary Cole]

Originally Posted by Dave Davis

Backin ya up... I've been testing for over 3 years.

The ULN8 is unusual for the length of it's development in this day and age. Others have released 2-3 new lines while the ULN8 was in development. So, unlike a new piece from other companies, what you buy is not barely-beta.

-d-

Good morning, Dave. Now your comment is ever so slightly disingenuous! (That's a good word for this time of the morning)!

You, of all people, know that Sonic Studio publically released 'as a finished product' the 305 nearly 18 months ago which is an OEM ULN-8 - and identified as such by both Sonic and MH software.

As it turns out, the 305 would now seem to have been an 'incomplete' version of the ULN-8 (ie minus front panel level controls - even though the Sonic box claimed at the time to have a level control for cans which it didn't).

So those buying the ULN-8 have benefited from nearly 18 months of feedback from actual real-world purchasers of the Sonic boxes (including, in my case, a major hardware failure 6 weeks in). Why else wait so long for MH to release the ULN-8?

Having said that, I would endorse everything the MH 'beta testers' have said about the sound quality of the MH ULN-8 box - and would buy another!

Gary Cole

[Pr.tiouz]

Originally Posted by sdevino

Well its not perfect but there are several Beta testers using multiple ULN8's to get near 40 channels. It currently requires some interbox routing to achieve but it is manageable.

Many of us have moved to mono headphone mixes as well. You might try it. I use it with live pit musicians for the past year and so far everyone who has tried it likes it very much (or at least not complained). The advantage is there is no spatial info in your ears that conflicts with what you see around you. So they settle in on the mix a lot more quickly.

Steve

Originally Posted by hank alrich

There are already at least half a million ways to do just what you're suggesting. The Metric Halo stuff is sharp because they offer something else for those who are looking for that.

Further, by using multiple units one can achieve some remarkable input and output setups.

I'm a metric halo user from the beginning and bought a 2882DSP when they came out i also bought a ULN2 when they came out.

this days i just kept the uln2 because the 2882 was not reliable on the adat side and took 2 FF800 instead, so i have to stick with the routing between box thingy to get consolidated mixes of the 2 box, like if i had a set of 2 2882.

i'm not saying you can't do 40 channels count with uln8, but you still have to route between boxes and have at best 8 mono mixes like sdevino suggested (will give this a trythumbsup).
not to say it is confusing and time consuming to swap between mixers to do those mixs.

today i want to upgrade my setup and i'm looking at different solutions, i would have loved to see metric halo coming out with a consolidated mixer of the boxes this would have been a killer feature (man i love this mixer) and got me back to metric halo.

i can't afford the symphony system, so i'm looking at an ssl alphalink/ rme pcie solution.

i'm still saying that the manufacturer that will come out with
a 32i/o box with an elegant consolidated mixer
3 set of speaker outputs with volume and mute
i talk back mic input with an automatic ducking feature when sound is rolling
8 aes/adat i/o to connect high end converters / hardware reverb for a total of 40 channels up to 96K
8 digital outputs to connect to individual mixers (something like the ear system) 12 channel each (one stereo mix, one clic, one talk back, 8 more me)
connection to the computer by Firewire for location recording or pcie card for low latency (the card can be very simple because the mixer is in the outboard box)
The box should be expandable with four slot, price of the box with one 8i/o slot feeded around 4000$
each additionnal 8i/o for 1500$
individual mixers 250$ each
pcie card for 500$
so you get a full 40i/o stable professionnal quality studio indoor and location recording capable for 9000$ (11000$ with 8 individual 12channel mixers)
you can even get the price down and suit the needs of the customer best by separating the ins from the out and put 8 slot instead of 4.

i'm just a little pissed because metric halo is the manufacturer wich have the technology and i would like to see coming out with such a box because of the plug-ins you get in the mixer, the sound of their converters and we all know they have on of the best drivers on the market.

uln8 is fine for what it can do, but it can't do this and for a lot of $ + i'm not in the need to buy 32 of their pre to get to get my studio setup running.
get the pre out of the 2882 and put 4 of them in a 2U rack and you have this.

on the design side i see 40 i/o led meters on the front like the one on the 2882 and a remote for speaker control, MH logo on the left, headphone jack and "ADAD40"on the right.

this would be a dream come true for any middle class studio owner or freelance engineer.
am i still alone ?

oh i forgot : "this could be the protools killer"

[rmx16]

Originally Posted by loji

I'll trade someone a 900 SE SAAB v6 convertible (first and only V6 they ever made) in green for a ULN-8 I'm in NYC, and it's in San Diego. (alot of good it's doing me huh) Currently living at my girlfriends parents house, but would look much better under your butt driving up the 1 ... I'll sit in the trenches on the gritty east coast with your ULN, and you play in the sun in my Saab ..... fair trade

Does anybody want to trade their ULN8 for a 2002 Chevy Trailblazer with 180,000 miles I'm taking the busthumbsup

Peace

[henryrobinett]

Originally Posted by Pr.tiouz

oh i forgot : "this could be the protools killer"

I kind of think this IS the Pro Tools killer. But I'm biased, and terms like that are just inflammatory.

Much of what you say can be done in ULN-8. Not 32 channels of course. It's an 8 channel box. You could get that with a couple of 2882 in addition to the ULN-8.

I'm not understanding about the consolidated mixer. AFAIK it is a consolidated mixer. All of my MIO boxes are in the same mixer. Right now I'm doing a mix using a ULN-8 and a ULN-2, mixed and matched in the same window, on the same mixer.

I have two monitors systems and my studio rig is set up for either 4 stereo phones or 8 mono.

You can wish and wait and whine all day long for the IDEAL set up, the one that DOESN'T EXIST, or you can relent and get the closest one that does.