upgrade is downgrade

[Jamstudio]

Hi al

I'm new here

I'm mainley record Jamsessions with buddies, and i record a ocassionel band

I have a Roland vs1680, nothing fancy but it served me for a few years

I thought it was time 2 upgrade
so wat i got now :

HD24XR
RME 9632 soundcard and uad utrapack for mixing itb
Old A&H mixer (system 8 2416)
RME quadmic mic preamps

I was chocked @ the differences

My new recordings on my new system souds horrible comparred with the vs1680 (which were not that good to start with)

Wat good be wrong
The hd24xr should have a decent input stage
And RME have a reputation of making decent gear, so at least at a level of the roland pre's

Maybe it's a bit clearder what i mean if i put up some samples

Recording vs1680 with build in pre and mixed in the vs1680(8 track live jam)

Recording done with hd24xr. pre amps A&H and rme quadmic. (10 track live jam) and tranferd to pc with the fireport and and mixed itb with rme 9632 and cubase SX

Tnx for your time guys

Remco
www.jamstudio.nl

[theblue1]

Don't be disheartened. You just have to learn the particulars of using your new equipment. You probably had your old multitrack set up just the way you liked it with some favorite FX and compressors.

The second recording (the later one, on WMA) obviously has some serious problems but they sound like the sort of thing that can easily be attributed to adjusting to the new gear and just circumstances... more going on, different ambience, miking, etc. I hear what sound like impedance mismatches, and so on and check to make sure you're not adding high end... but you'll get used to your gear, I suspect, and learn what to do and what not to do in your new environment.

If you're still having issues with your gear in two months... then, I'd be concerned.


PS... these sound like fun jams.

[Jamstudio]

Originally Posted by theblue1

Don't be disheartened. You just have to learn the particulars of using your new equipment. You probably had your old multitrack set up just the way you liked it with some favorite FX and compressors.

true

Originally Posted by theblue1

The second recording (the later one, on WMA) obviously has some serious problems but they sound like the sort of thing that can easily be attributed to adjusting to the new gear and just circumstances... more going on
, different ambience, miking, etc. I hear what sound like impedance mismatches, and so on and check to make sure you're not adding high end... but you'll get used to your gear, I suspect, and learn what to do and what not to do in your new environment.

If you're still having issues with your gear in two months... then, I'd be concerned.

the problem is: I've got the equipment now for about 3 months

Originally Posted by theblue1

PS... these sound like fun jams.

They are, but this gives me a real headech

Tnx for posting

[trident fan]

hi jam studio,
i don't know where your ears are but i think the second mp3 sounds a lot better.
the roland has the crummy fake sound those junk boxes are known for. the alesis sounds much more pro. 3 months is not a long time to be using a new recorder.

[silverdisk]

I hear what sound like impedance mismatches, and so on



what does this sound like?

[Jamstudio]

Originally Posted by trident fan

hi jam studio,
i don't know where your ears are but i think the second mp3 sounds a lot better.
the roland has the crummy fake sound those junk boxes are known for. the alesis sounds much more pro. 3 months is not a long time to be using a new recorder.

realy?, I think the second one sound flat and depthless, maybe my ears need recalibration(is that a english word)

[Jamstudio]

Originally Posted by theblue1

I hear what sound like impedance mismatches

any hints how to troubleshoot these kind og things

Tnx

[TedF]

Hi Jamstudio

Hmmm....

I'm wondering about some of the tricks that are in that old VS1680... the way it soft clips so that it's easy to use. There's a certain sound to the recordings that you can get like, and use to advantage without really realising it.

Your second recording sounds typically clean and a bit clinical and uninteresting; which is what I would expect from the gear that you list. To get warmer and more interesting sounds you are going to have to use some decent dynamic control... some compression to bring that drum kit out and stop it sounding like the drummer is tickling it.
I would suggest trying some of the less expensive analog compressors; these can do wonders for your sound.
Don't be frightened of using some serious compression (forget those plug-in excuses for compressors), use individual compression on tracks and groups as well as overall compression on the mix.
But certainly don't be disheartened!

[Ziggy!!]

Wow... that second one sounds heaps better! wider stereo imagine, lots more depth!!

I dont mean to sound patronising or mean in anyway, but your newer setup is probably reflecting your technique and room much more than the old recorder.

[Jamstudio]

I don't know on what monitors you guys are listening on
but on my monitors (Genelec 1030) it's sounds

muddy
harsh almost piercing
lifeless,flat

The song with the distorded vocals is on the 'old' gear
the instrumental is done on the 'new' gear



Remco

[CrkFrk]

I am sorry but I have to agree. The second MP3 recording with the new gear sounds tons better. I think you just need to work with your mic placement and technique a little more. Try not to be discouraged. Keep experimenting.

[Ziggy!!]

Originally Posted by Jamstudio

I don't know on what monitors you guys are listening on
but on my monitors (Genelec 1030) it's sounds

muddy
harsh almost piercing
lifeless,flat

The song with the distorded vocals is on the 'old' gear
the instrumental is done on the 'new' gear



Remco

The first one sounds like junk compared to the second one...

The second one has such a better 3D sound to it... its deep and wide... If you are hearing it as flat and the second one as having more depth there is something wrong.

The first one sounds paper thin in comparison... there is very little depth and its very narrow.

Again, I don't mean to be rude... But your new setup is capable of hit quality records... It is only you or the room preventing it from being that quality.


If you hate it so much, I'll swap you an old VS1680 for your current setup so you can live in your "sonic bliss". Just PM me if you are interested

[Jamstudio]

Originally Posted by Ziggy!!

If you hate it so much, I'll swap you an old VS1680 for your current setup so you can live in your "sonic bliss". Just PM me if you are interested

I still got my old setup

I still found it strange, I must have gone crazy i then

Tnx Remco

[Ziggy!!]

Originally Posted by Jamstudio

I still got my old setup

I still found it strange, I must have gone crazy i then

Tnx Remco

nar... It happens to everyone when they get there first peice great audio gear...

They wonder why it doesn't sound as good as everyone says it should... its usually because you aren't using it right.


Your old setup would have hidden the finer details... It would have been less picky on microphones or placements... or the room, etc, etc...

Your new setup picks up a whole lot more... its fussy over mics and there placements and the room you record in shows through a whole lot more...

What may sound like a terrible room with your new setup may sound half decent in your old setup.

Its when you learn how to use your new setup that everything is going to sounds far far better than your old setup. Take the time to place the mics and tune the room and you recordings will start jumping out at you!

[Ziggy!!]

the biggest difference that i hear is that the sound recording captures the sounds/instruments in the room much more accurately than the first recording...

[not_so_new]

Hey Remco.

First I agree with others, the second recording is better in my eyes.

If you are interested in hearing the difference between the two systems......

The human ear can be tricked with things like guitar amps and drums, these are not "natural" sounds we hear in our environment but our ear is very keenly designed to hear the human voice. Because of this reproducing the human voice is not always the easiest thing to accomplish.

Some people spend 10s of thousands of dollars trying to capture vocal performances accurately. The real high end gear we see people talking about on these forums are really just shades of "good," they can all come pretty close to getting the sound of the human voice recorded in a pleasing way.

Anyway the best way to tell the difference between the Roland and the HD24XR / RME 9632 is to find your best mic and your best mic pre. Put the mic into a room and set the pre with some test tones into the Roland so you can match levels (although I think the difference will be pretty apparent) then record a few spoken lines from a book. Now do the same thing into the HD24XR with the same lines from the book and listen to them side by side.

I think you will notice a difference.....

thumbsup

[Jamstudio]

Originally Posted by not_so_new

then record a few spoken lines from a book. Now do the same thing into the HD24XR with the same lines from the book and listen to them side by side.

I think you will notice a difference.....

thumbsup

I actualy tried something like that, just with vocals
but the Trick is: there i know way you can bypass the rolland pre's
Wel you can digital (spdif) but i don't have a seperate converter, so then I have to go true the soundcard.
BTW I never said it was the recorder, my suspect was extualy that there was something wrong with the pre's/ mixer, you know bad caps, impedance ,cables one legged connections, qualety ... things like that
I don't know nothing about this kind of things and that's why i asked you guys

Her are some other jams (without clipping this time i hope)
http://www.jamfreak.com/jamstudio/pagina's/jams/20041118.htm

[trident fan]

Originally Posted by Jamstudio

I don't know on what monitors you guys are listening on
but on my monitors (Genelec 1030) it's sounds

muddy
harsh almost piercing
lifeless,flat

The song with the distorded vocals is on the 'old' gear
the instrumental is done on the 'new' gear



Remco

the genelec 1030a's are not optimum for mixing. they are boxy.

[Jamstudio]

Originally Posted by trident fan

the genelec 1030a's are not optimum for mixing. they are boxy.

Realy ?
That was the best i could get overhere a few years ago

As a matter of fact it's is pretty hard to geat some good stuf in holland
And if you can find it. it is overprized.