How do i get that perfect pop vocal sound?

[2up2down]

Hi Guys,Hope some of you can advise.......Been mainly doing remixing in the past and now starting to do more production work.A big problem I'm facing is the quality of the vocal sound I'm currently getting.....it just aint good enough. I've been using the Neumann 149 into a Tube-tech MEC1A straight into the Apogee Rosetta 800 and recording into Logic 8. The vocal sound I've been getting (using a number of different talented session singers) is just small,lifeless,takes up no space and just sits there. I want to get that upfront ,pop perfection, dry as you like , jumping out of the speakers vocal sound (a sound I've heard on most of the vocals I've been sent by record companies when commissioned to do remix work). Today, after reading a number of posts on here , I decided to hire in a few different mics for a comparison test. The mics I used were the Neumann M49 and the Braumer VM1A. First off, I could hardly tell the difference between the 149 and the M49 (neither give me what I'm after). The Braumer VM1A on the other hand was WAY more like it. It actually had much more of a serious full sound to it....made the Neumanns sound like they had a low cut over them. However , even though the VM1A was a way better sound to what I've previousy been getting, it still lacked that "Aliveness" that all the vocals I'm A>B ing against have. So I'm wondering if I should have perhaps also hired in a Mic Pre Amp to use before the Tube Tech....can anyone advise whether doing this adds that extra punch I'm after?If so which Mic Pre would you recommend? or if that's not it can anyone think of another tool I can use to make the vocals stand out that bit more? p.s. I have also tried the hanging of duvets in various parts of the vocal booth trick and that doesn't seem to do it either

[JoeyM]

I can almost hear tINY say "get voice lessons"

OK I'm not the guy with all the answers, but others who would know more might ask:

1. Male or female?

2. What's the closest type of music? e.g. Norah Jones style will likely be different than oh, I don't know, Janis Joplin

3. What are your compression/limiting options?

When a project is complete, I dont' know whether it's Pan Law or any of the other factors, I think ProTools sounds more radio-friendly dense pop, but others disagree.

For pop vocals i see a lot of U47 > Neve, if they're not lying

[hazelmossobrien]

U87 - clean solid state preamp - roll off low end boost mid range presence and whispy high end - compress, then auto tune then compress then compress again, and the stereo buss? compress that more!!

ha.

[monkeyxx]

I agree with the fancy LDC / sweetening EQ (mid/high emphasis) / layered compression. this is for the "radio pop" sound. you'll probably need a slight reverb or delay, and an autotuner as well

[kidvybes]

...a favorite among many top engineers, PSP Vintage Warmer...add some "girth" to your vocal sound...

PSPaudioware.com - audio processors and effects plug-ins in VST, DirectX, MAS, AudioUnit, RTAS format for Mac and PC

[monkeyxx]

good idea! I've heard that plugin, and that makes a lot of sense

(sorry, I had to chime in again)

[kidvybes]

Originally Posted by monkeyxx

good idea! I've heard that plugin, and that makes a lot of sense

(sorry, I had to chime in again)

...one of my favorites!...

[TonyBelmont]

Originally Posted by 2up2down

The vocal sound I've been getting (using a number of different talented session singers) is just small,lifeless,takes up no space and just sits there. I want to get that upfront ,pop perfection, dry as you like , jumping out of the speakers vocal sound (a sound I've heard on most of the vocals I've been sent by record companies when commissioned to do remix work).

Hire an engineer to mix your project who specializes in the genre you are working in... There is no magic box or anything... Just good ears, and knowing what to do, how to do it, and when, etc.

[dbbubba]

Awwwww c'mon Tony!
Isn't there a short cut where you can buy a box or plug-in and make any and all voices sound great or at least better?

Surely one can buy their way into a sound without paying someone else to do it!

[TonyBelmont]

Originally Posted by dbbubba

Awwwww c'mon Tony!
Isn't there a short cut where you can buy a box or plug-in and make any and all voices sound great or at least better?

Surely one can buy their way into a sound without paying someone else to do it!

[dbbubba]

Yeah.... and don't let those secrets out because it will RUIN the gear market!

I can recall back when I had a GREAT sounding room with a Sphere Eclipse, all the mics anyone could ask for, all the outboard and a JH24 with 16 track heads if needed that I needed better gear to make my records sound like the hits on the radio.

I had everything I needed right there.
Well, except for the ability to make a hit record with the gear I had.

[hazelmossobrien]

Originally Posted by dbbubba

Yeah.... and don't let those secrets out because it will RUIN the gear market!

I can recall back when I had a GREAT sounding room with a Sphere Eclipse, all the mics anyone could ask for, all the outboard and a JH24 with 16 track heads if needed that I needed better gear to make my records sound like the hits on the radio.

I had everything I needed right there.
Well, except for the ability to make a hit record with the gear I had.

yup, early in my recording life i had MANY opportunities I now relish in totally pro studio (SSL 4056G, Neve VR-48, studer tape and any vintage piece you can think of) and yes recordings sounded like awesome gear, but not awesome skills!

[u b k]

you have to have a perfect pop song, with a perfect pop vocal melody. then you have to have a perfect pop sounding voice, and you have to sing it like the kids are being told to sing it these days.

if you got all that in place, mostly any decent mic and pre will do, followed by plugin compressors and eq's of various sorts, and autotune or melodyne. you can mix itb too, just like a goodly number of perfect pop hits on the radio.

iow, it's really all about the music. the sound quality and character can vary tremendously, and does, but the music it what creates the perception.


gregory scott - ubk
.

[ology]

Well first of all, the question is a bit vague. There are MANY things that go into getting that vocal sound ive hear on many records. Many years back i thought it was some magical MIC or box, but no. Always remember that what your hearing is number one. A great Singer ( and converters and cloks) . 2 A great vocal Producers work and in many cases best edits. 3 a great MIX. And keep in mind pro mixers do MANY things to make the vocal hit you. TONS of things.. there are extremely subtle tricks flying all over vocals these days, thats why there are Sooo many posts in here on this subject. From riding in, small space reverbs to make the singer sound Closer, to Parallel compression in "certain spots" in songs, to riding the fader AS WELL AS EQ;s in order to make a certain statement "jump out" at the listener. and believe me most of the vocals you loved were recorded with a U87. Dont compress too much! during tracking....Remember , mic and voice matching is paramount. Also with the right Pre and make sure the Singer is in the right spot. Maybe in a certain area of the room sounds better? seriously. I have experimented with automating EQ plug ins to when the singer is singing quiet and intamate, i jack the high shelf (above 12K) way up and only put it on the airy spots, to the opposite, using the same trick to suck out frequencies to make the vocal hit different.... try it all.... just my 2 cents.

[2up2down]

Thanks guys for all your suggestions! OK....I understand that there's no one "magic box" that will do everything but I do know for sure that the problem is not the singer and obviously once recorded the usual "tricks" would be employed. The vocals I'm a>b ing against are all dry pre mixed audio files, so they've been compd but don't have the benefit of a mix sparkle but yet still sound way more "there" than anything I can get.
So the thing I'm still wondering......is the fact I'm not using a mic pre and going straight into the tube tech mec1a gonna play a factor in this at all?

[voicegenius]

Originally Posted by dbbubba

Awwwww c'mon Tony!
Isn't there a short cut where you can buy a box or plug-in and make any and all voices sound great or at least better?

Surely one can buy their way into a sound without paying someone else to do it!

Yeah, it's called "talent"...

[phillysoulman]

Originally Posted by voicegenius

Yeah, it's called "talent"...

Sadly,there isnt very much of the "T word" left.

[H-Rezz]

Originally Posted by 2up2down

(a sound I've heard on most of the vocals I've been sent by record companies when commissioned to do remix work).

This is your problem right here, most vocals sent to you would be stemmed out and treated(eq'ed/compressed) before you even got them, your vocals are in the raw form so yes they are going to sound lifeless and not as upfront !

Recording the vocal and learning to recognize you have a workable raw sound that can be molded into pop bliss is part of the journey !

My suggestion would be to start learning how to treat a vocal to make it pop out front ...