Allen & Heath Zed GSR24

[RKrizman]

Originally Posted by erasedcitizen

I'm sure that AlienHeath said earlier in the thread that motorized faders will be optional.

It would be great if the converters were also optional, in case A&H is still taking suggestions.

-R

[Il Giallo Uomo]

This thread is digressing. More info less speculation. Seems like Brad is in the know. How 'bout spreading the knowledge Brad? thumbsup

[Brad McGowan]

Sorry...it's been a really busy day for me at work. As soon as I get home I'll give you guys a rundown on what I found out.

I agree with the idea to have converters be optional. I think anyone that has the money to afford a $6k-10k console will likely have conversion already covered. The board should be analog only in its default I/O configuration. Digital connectivity should be optional.

I appreciate everyone's patience. I'll be sharing what I know shortly.

thanks,
Brad

[-mark-]

i can't wait for more info on this!

but, thinking about it realistically, the r24 is probably beyond what i can do and use right now. i'll just stick with the r16 until im ready or need to expand.

i guess the r16 will make a great "build up" to the r16.

still wanting and needing more info on this baby soon though!

[Phaidon]

Originally Posted by satissounds

Here in the UK i am hoping for around £3000-£3500.

That would be my guess as well.

[highsage]

Originally Posted by Phaidon

That would be my guess as well.

R24 with flying faderz and tubez for around 5k UKP.

[herwert]

Originally Posted by seventn

its not about wanting something for nothing. Its about wanting less features and better quality. 24 ins, nice eq, 4-8 buses but NO CONVERTERS!!! I already have very good ones and I don't want to pay for more. And I don't want to have to change the board for a new one in 3-4 years because there are betters ones out there or because the standards have changed.

I don't freaking get it, A&H should have the same goal cause all they need is have to deal with sync, digital clicks etc... Companies go down because of these kinds of problems. Do a search for ZED R16 and all you find that is positive and that has no problems is the analogue side...but there are many many discussions about digital problems.

I already lost sooooo much money on digital boards that I don't want a hybrid. I want a quality analogue desk that will play nicely with my digital toys. How many people have purchased 02Rs for 12000.00 and they are now worthless???

Come one A&H, just give me a Ghost/Toft equivalent but done the right way!

He seventn I am lost here. I thought that an hybrid desk was the(!) advantage above Toft/Ghost. But if you say no digital boards, just a quality analoge desk done the right way I am wondering what will be the advantage of the R24 compared to the Toft/Ghost?

An other thing; I though Toft/Ghost were very good desks, but if I get is right they didn't do it right? Can you explain?

[seventn]

Originally Posted by herwert

He seventn I am lost here. I thought that an hybrid desk was the(!) advantage above Toft/Ghost. But if you say no digital boards, just a quality analoge desk done the right way I am wondering what will be the advantage of the R24 compared to the Toft/Ghost?

An other thing; I though Toft/Ghost were very good desks, but if I get is right they didn't do it right? Can you explain?

By Hybrid I mean Analogue WITH also digital interface and converters. Interface formats change rather quickly and like someone else said earlier, most interested in this board would most likely already have converters.

The Ghost was a good board (I had a 32) but it was really big and now is pretty old and probably not as good as newer spec stuff. Back when the Ghost was designed we were recording to crappy sh1t boxes called ADATs so the specs of boards didn't have to be the best... now with 24bit/96/128 it has to be.

Toft done right? Just do a search on this board... read all the problems with connections etc. Also pricey for the feature set.

All I want is an R16 (ok maybe 24) with analogue busses and no digital. 100mm faders and dedicated fx returns. All this should not be more than the initial price of the R16.

I really think that once you cross the 3000-4000$ mark, you start losing a lot of potential buyers. People that can afford 7000-9000 range with probably shop for small SSL or NEVE solutions. If this board is over 3-4K I myself will just get an SSL x-desk and a few decent outboard Eqs.

It will be a big mistake for A&H to include everything AND the kitchen sink. Come on, who wants to do automation with moving faders and have to deal with timecode etc. Been there, done that. Looks really cool but it is much easier to do ITB.

My 4c...

[herwert]

Thanks Seventh, now I get it. And I think I agree on that. Especially the moving faders part.

What do you think of the ZED 436? Isn't this what you want? It has 100mm faders and 4 busses. I assume it has the same pre's and EQ as the R16?

[seventn]

Originally Posted by herwert

Thanks Seventh, now I get it. And I think I agree on that. Especially the moving faders part.

What do you think of the ZED 436? Isn't this what you want? It has 100mm faders and 4 busses. I assume it has the same pre's and EQ as the R16?

No I'm pretty certain that the other ZEDs don't have the same sonic quality, pres or EQs. I email A&H a while back and they said the mix wizard was a notch above the ZED line. (not the R16 though). The ZED line is pretty much for live use.

[herwert]

That's interresting, so the Zed line doen't have the same pre's and EQs as the R16.

But are you saying that the MixWizard series is the top line of A&H and that they have a better sonic quality that the R16?

[greatgreatriver]

I don't think the wizard line is a lot better because I open mine and it's just a basic little mixing board. Nothing too fancy inside!

[Adlen]

What I'm looking for is...
•Nice pres
•The EQ we've already seen (4 band, 2 fully parametric mids)
•A couple of aux sends (personally I don't need many but some do)
•100mm motor faders with DAW control
•Panning knobs to control DAW (endless rotary?)
•The 16's ability to route the signal in a variety of places down the channel
•Less than £3,000 if that's not being too optimistic

This would let us do all kinds of things and for those looking for 'optional converters', don't get me wrong but that sort of defeats the point of the Zed-R mixer. If it met the points on my list I'd be getting a loan and selling my gear to get it.

[kkonkkrete]

The assumption that anyone interested in a pricey board would already have converters is false. I'm sure there are other people in the same situation as me: looking to step up and faced with getting a straight analogue board plus converters, or a desk like the R16 or R24 that has quality converters already built in. If it were a straight analogue board, I probably wouldn't be interested.

Personally I'd be interested in the mic pres being an option but I guess that's pretty unlikely.

[Adlen]

Originally Posted by kkonkkrete

If it were a straight analogue board, I probably wouldn't be interested.

Ditto.

Originally Posted by kkonkkrete

Personally I'd be interested in the mic pres being an option but I guess that's pretty unlikely.

Very unlikely that A&H would do this!

[ArnauTS]

Originally Posted by kkonkkrete

The assumption that anyone interested in a pricey board would already have converters is false. I'm sure there are other people in the same situation as me: looking to step up and faced with getting a straight analogue board plus converters, or a desk like the R16 or R24 that has quality converters already built in. If it were a straight analogue board, I probably wouldn't be interested.

Personally I'd be interested in the mic pres being an option but I guess that's pretty unlikely.

Yeah i will like the pres being option too it will be nice to have only lines and the motorized faders it will be more good than a c24
We need to wait more info e

[Il Giallo Uomo]

Originally Posted by ArnauTS

Yeah i will like the pres being option too it will be nice to have only lines and the motorized faders it will be more good than a c24
We need to wait more info e

Yeah I've got all the pres I need too. I would love a good mixer to come without pres at a much lower price but I've never seen anything like it that has half as many features as r16 or r24. Seems like if a whole bunch of gearslutz got together we could build a perfect solution!.. or just argue a lot.

[ajk!]

The one thing the Zed R16 lacks in my opinion is Analogue outs for every channel, 3 DB-25 connectors would do the job. I have no idea how much this would add to the price but it would make it far more appealing to me, so when firewire is no longer around I can use different AD/DA.

[Brad McGowan]

You guys are really funny. It's a good thing manufacturers don't listen to everyone that makes a product suggestion--they would never actually release anything. And who in their right mind would want a couple X-Desks when they could have a full featured console with real routing and full DAW control AND automation. That one is completely beyond me.

Anyway...as promised...

I spent a little over an hour on Saturday going over the details of the R24 with Mike. Mike was incredibly humble and gracious and was very thankful and positive about all the great feedback he has received from potential users like myself and those of you reading and contributing to this thread. Allen and Heath is definitely a company that is paying attention to the needs of its customers, and I was truly impressed by that. Mike showed me a few PDFs showing the entire front panel layout with all the controls. I also got to see a document showing digital I/O connectivity as well as a whole folder's worth of pictures. I'll try my best to recount what I remember, but I wasn't taking notes about anything other than the topics/issues that pertained to suggestions I was making. So this is all from memory. I'll note where I may be a little fuzzy on the details and hopefully Mike can chime in and correct me.

- 24 channels, 16 to the left of center section, 8 to the right
- LED (like R16) metering for all channels on meter bridge
- about 1.3m wide and similar depth to other ZED mixers
- outboard linear PSU based on other A-H designs
- 4 busses that can be assigned to LR bus or M (mono) bus
- 6 auxes (some set pre-fade, some set post-fade, some switchable)
- mic pre, HPF, and 4-band EQ (two parametric mids) same as R16
- [there might have been a unity gain button to take the fader out of the channel signal path...need confirmation]
- analog automation as an option
- 100mm motorized faders for both analog gain and DAW control (if you move the
DAW fader on the screen then the console fader will move and vice versa)
- DAW control via HUI protocol
- full analog automation via MIDI (you can record automation data as a MIDI track in your DAW using the console's faders and then with your entire mix running analog through the console you can automate levels during playback)
- individual channel control over which faders are DAW control and which are analog fader
- various read/write modes for automation similar to what the DAW does
- various solo modes controlled from center section (solo in place, PFL, AFL)
- user assignable button on each channel for DAW control (can be assigned as Arm Track, DAW Solo, Channel Select, whatever)
- 32 channels AD and DA on Digital I/O card with Firewire and ADAT (Firewire only gives full 32 channels at 88.2/96k sample rates)
- "Dig Send" and "Dig Return" routing buttons similar to R16: can choose where signal is tapped in channel strip to send to and from DAW....pre-EQ, pre-fade (I think). Group outputs and aux outputs can be routed to Digital outs.
- pre-fade analog direct out on each channel
- [this may not be 100% accurate] Analog I/O option card that will enable "Dig Send" and "Dig Return" buttons to route signal to analog I/O on Dsub connectors for connection to outboard AD/DA converters, standalone digital recorders, tape decks, and live sound rigs.
- DAW return inputs with level control (for monitoring an ITB mix)
- two sets of 2TRK returns with ability to dub from one to the other
- two control room monitor outs
- headphone out
- jog/shuttle wheel for DAW control
- transport for MMC control
- bank of assignable DAW control buttons
- two tube (valve) chanels that can be assigned to main mix signal path [I'm not sure if these can be routed to channels or not]. This allows you to place a tube amp circuit on your main mix bus for coloration!
- valve channels have instrument inputs with discrete front end for use with guitars
- [I can't remember what it had for FX returns]
- wood side panels for classy look

That's all I can remember right now. Feel free to ask questions and perhaps it will jog my memory about other things. I purposefully left out information about some of the suggestions I made to Mike because I feel he should have time to think about them before the world starts thinking they are done deal features. But rest assured I had some good ideas that would enhance the functionality or performance of the console in ways from which I think many would benefit.

Brad

[ArnauTS]

It seems good to me it's nice that they pay attention to consumers and i apreciate your info,thanks Brad
thumbsup

[herwert]

Incredible!! That sounds great...what a features!!

Did he mention when Allen & Heath is planning on bringing this to market (or releaseing official info)? So, when can we expect it? Will it be already next month, Music Messe Frankfurt, before the summer of after the summer? Did he mention someting about it?

[trock]

wow!

this is exactly what i am looking for!

thanks a ton for the info Brad!

i may have missed it but can you by pass the pre's etc? i have some nice channel strips i would want to continue to use like a pendulum audio quartet etc and wondered if can bypass a channel pre/eq etc if needed?

thanks

tim

[kkonkkrete]

Sounds superb. Futureproof too.

[Brad McGowan]

There is a line input on each channel in addition to the mic pre input. So if you want to use an outboard preamp and send to the DAW pre-EQ you can do that.

They are hoping to have this on the market definitely by the fall. I believe Mike wants to be able to bring the prototype to MusikMesse. That doesn't necessarily mean he will but he wants to.

Brad

[trock]

thanks brad!

it just keeps getting better and better, FINALLY someone seems to have put all the pieces together

[kasprouch]

cheers Brad, and kudos to Mike for delivering at Namm... one thing missing in all this would be a stereo AES out connected to the end of this:

- DAW return inputs with level control (for monitoring an ITB mix)

to monitor with a 2 channel d/a of choice. which brings up the question: is the DAW return input analog or digital?
ah, and no mention of direct outs?

[Bill Moriarty]

Wow that looks great!

Someone wrote this here...
"It will be a big mistake for A&H to include everything AND the kitchen sink. Come on, who wants to do automation with moving faders and have to deal with timecode etc. Been there, done that. Looks really cool but it is much easier to do ITB."

I prefer to do analog automation as the final step in mixing and I find it easier with a console. I do not like to mix by writing DAW automation.

[Jonathan_H]

This is sound like a totally stunning desk, especially if price point is sub $10k. Will be watching the thread like a hawk from now on. Can't wait to see more pictures!

[Adlen]

Thanks Brad, that sounds perfect but for just TWO things...

Can the pan knobs be DAW control?

Can we please have more than one assignable button? A select, solo, arm and maybe a mute would be nice!

Thanks.

[Brad McGowan]

DAW return - I'm assuming it's digital input. An analog input here would indeed be a nice feature especially if digital I/O is an option and not default.

Pan is analog only as far as I could tell.

The analog channels have solo and mute. You don't need DAW solo and mute if you running all your DAW outputs into the console for analog mixing. If you just want to use the desk as a big DAW controller only then you only get one button for assigning to DAW functions. That's what's called a compromise.

Maybe Allen and Heath can implement a "Shift" button in the master section that allows the assignable channel button to have two functions. That would be cool.

Brad