Allen & Heath Zed GSR24

[soundrage]

Originally Posted by asagaai

I hope Allen and Heath has some flexibility for us guys who want to use quality converters and want to use board in tracking with our own pres (I have some 11 top line pres) so I would like to see the option of speccing the board with say 12 pres from Allen and Heath for the tracking, balance of 12 line ins so I can use my own outboard boutique pres..

Exactly! I'd like to say that none of these companies get it but maybe it's a small minority of people who want LESS pre;s on mixers?

[F5D]

Originally Posted by soundrage

Exactly! I'd like to say that none of these companies get it but maybe it's a small minority of people who want LESS pre;s on mixers?

Basically I would also need only 1 or 2 pres, mostly for connecting my mic when measuring the room. All inputs would be synthesizers or some other grazy boxes that make sound without microphones. But who knows, I've heard that using DI boxes for synths makes them sound nicer and you need mic pres for connecting them. I've been checking out the radial JDI boxes with the rackmount case. So maybe the pres are not useless afterall, and based on the talk here at GS, the R-series preamps should be of very high quality anyway...

[kkonkkrete]

+1 on fewer pres! See my other thread

[TTCMP]

Here's what I want...

24 XLR in

6 aux, all switchable pre/post

100 mm faders

ADAT (perhaps a option slot? ADAT or FW)

Why? this would be the perfect small live sound/recording desk for us. Just 3 ADAT cables to our HD24! No D-sub snakes with funky TRS connections. WhooHoo!

[SUCHOJ]

Ok, you are right to keep ADAT. For Fw possible problems should be used 3 ADATs only. BUT then this 3xADAT might be all 96kHz.
About the FW overloading on ZED24: The DICE Jr. ( used on ZED 16) might be able to solve even 64 chanell stream of 192kHz audio, so the FW on ZED should make it. The question is the other side of the cable...
Few mic pre is good solution for lot of electronic (synth, fx) studios.
I think 6 is enough ( for me also).
What makes Di boxes with the synth sound, or all line inputs? Thats the question for me also.

[JoeHorton]

The R24 will definately be going in my studio.

[antilog]

I am waiting patiently for the R24.... I miss my MixWizard. The feature set of the R16 is amazing, R24 is going to rock. Safe bet.

[lovekrafty]

I can tell you A&H were dipping their toes in the water with the R16
The R24 will be a full blown Hybrid mixer, well worth the wait
in my opinion.

I think it'll make some waves in the industry.

Cheers
LK

[Stuart Wild]

Any idea on the wait for this one? I know it's hard but like, 1 year, 3 years..?
If it's got what everyone says I'll DEFINITELY be buying one. Hell, I'll probably buy one if it's just a bigger R16!

The motorised faders sound ideal though! stike

[Me2]

My 1/2 pence worth.

In order of priority.... first don't break anything. Keep the hybrid thought uppermost.
Keep the quality high and the price low. Let people integrate hardware and software, analogue and digital.
Let them optimize their own work flow and choose where to process & store what.

1) 100mm faders. 60mm is just too fiddly for most long term use.
2) no loss of current routing flexibility to / from the digital into the analogue channels. That's what makes the hybrid concept work IMHO.
3) Repeat. all 24 channels available for routing to and from the DAW via the digital interface with the current insert / return flexibility
4) no compromise on firewire driver stability
5) motorised faders with two way control into the DAW: R24 controls DAW (moving fader on board moves fader in DAW) DAW controls R24 (moving fader on DAW via mouse moves fader on the board). Dynamic automation information stored in the DAW. Bear in mind that the analogue signal does not have to actually be routed via the controlling fader. You already have VCA technology. A high quality 1% 1024 step digitally controlled potentiometer costs literally a couple of dollars nowadays. see e.g. Circuit Note | Variable Gain Noninverting Amplifier Using the AD5292 Digital Potentiometer and the OP184 Op Amp | Analog Devices although of course you'd probably use a different op amp like the opa2134
6) Out of the box automation for Logic
7) If there's ADAT, or any other digital interface, then you definitely need configurable word clock
8a) additional digital interface via 3*ADAT optical @ max 48KHz 24 bit
8b) semi-flexible routing (which groups of 4 channels map to/from ADAT or to/from firewire). Please don't make this routing too complex.
8c) IF it doesn't increase the price, make the digital interface have 6*ADAT optical connectors with smux support for 96KHz*24 channels 24 bit. Should obviously be capable of splitting into connecting to 2*HD24 recorders 12 channels @96KHz
8d) If the technology is becoming mature by this time: audio over Ethernet option (IEEE 802.1 AVB) It's gonna kill so much legacy and proprietary equipment. ADAT let's you integrate with most people's existing kit. Ethernet AV is gonna be the future.
9) Additional channels have full EQ section. Not necessarily more mic pre's. But not less than the R16 either.
10) Dual mode. Flexible fader assignment for either 4 (preferably 6) mix groups or 4 (preferably 6) AUX out configuration (recording versus live use)
11) Multiple scene recall of fader position locally in the mixer (for live use without automation data stored in the DAW)
12) optionally integrated transport control of the ADAT 'tape' (either direct for live mode or via the DAW in recording mode) HD24 control seems the obvious target. I can actually think of many scenarios where it makes sense to have a number of tracks on the ADAT (for bulk mixing or reliable recording in hardware without eating cpu), and some tracks sourced or routed via the DAW (for flexible plug ins and sequenced synths) mixed together with live tracking audio: all mixed in low latency where it matters (in the live path). That's the beauty of hybrid.
13) optional meterbridge
14) No 192KHz. 192KHz is a dead end IMVHO. 88.2/96 is way fast enough. 96K is fast becoming the standard for video work. In fact an awful lot of people still stick to 44.1K CD sampling rates for music and 48K for video. I personally see no benefit in up-sampling if the overall system is clocked properly. Faster interfaces being better is a myth. You just end up compromising the accuracy of your 24 bit conversion. DAW and transport integration above conversion speed. Sorry I'm ranting....

[Phaidon]

Originally Posted by Stuart Wild

Any idea on the wait for this one? I know it's hard but like, 1 year, 3 years..?
! stike

Christmas or January @ NAMM...

[lovekrafty]

Originally Posted by Phaidon

Christmas or January @ NAMM...

That would be my guess , the next Namm.

LK

[Me2]

Originally Posted by lovekrafty

That would be my guess , the next Namm.

LK

Any speculation on the price point that the new product is aiming for?

Well below a Tascam DM-4800?
25% more than a R16?
Below an Yamaha 01V96 or Presonus StudioLive?

[F5D]

Originally Posted by Me2

Any speculation on the price point that the new product is aiming for?

Well below a Tascam DM-4800?
25% more than a R16?
Below an Yamaha 01V96 or Presonus StudioLive?

As far as I have understood, the R24 will be of a larger frame size (Mike mentioned this in the NAMM R16 video) and if the extra features are implemented, I believe that we are talking about a completely different product and price range. My guess is 2- 2.5 x the R16 price. I am definitely waiting for the R24.

[chuckfurok]

I don't understand why the r16 doesn't have direct outs? A "recording mixer" without direct outs?

[FeatheredSerpent]

I think it does have direct outs, just not analogue. You can switch the firewire or adat channels to take the signal out at the insert point, or after the EQ.

I would love to get a 24 channel version, but like many others have said, I really don't want or need all those pres.
It would be a 'breakthrough' for those of us that write and arrange itb but want to mix down otb to have a mixer like this with optional pres, all line would be perfect, and even make the firewire optional as well.
If you're using a hdsp 9652 or RayDat/any other multi-port adat interface then you don't want the firewire, just the adat.

I was using a soundcraft spirit 328 digital for a while and it would be great to see some of those features implemented on the R24.
Probably too late to make any hopeful requests now but:

1. Make ALL the pres optional - 24 Pres/Line or just Line, or at a press, just keep 8 pres on the 'mixdown version'.
2. Adat as standard, optional FireWire.
3. More digital inputs, ie s/pdif + AES/EBU inputs assignable to any stereo channel/aux return/2 Track input.
4. 6 aux sends pre or post switchable, can be routed to analogue and/or adat/firewire channel outs.
5. 8 Sub Groups, routable as above.
6. Dynamic automation (over midi?).
7. 100mm motorised faders.

That would be the perfect mixdown console for a daw based setup. Well, for my setup anyway

[Phaidon]

I think,for me anyway, it's important that A&H focus more on the R24 being a full-on mixer,with flexible busing,etc. and the FW thing as a secondary priority.Of course it has to have stable drivers,blah-blah, but the analog part of it,has to be the biz.

Cheers

Phaidon

[DJ Axon]

Hiya,

I was all set to buy an R16 but then noticed that the stereo channels don't have there own outs and have to be routed to mono's etc. That sounds like a bit of a faff for me as i have a few stereo synths etc and like a few others on here, don't really need 16 pre's. Also, i would be a few inputs short on the R16 although it looks near perfect for my needs otherwise.

Is anybody using an R16 with a mixture of mono drum channels from drum machines/synths and some stereo synths?

My ideal mixer would sound great, feel analogue, but spit out all the channels i need through firewire straight onto individual tracks in Cubase - when i spoke to A&H about the lack of outs on the stereo channels, he said that they weren't really intended as stereo channels and suggested summing a lot of mono's to groups to make room to route the stereos to some spare mono's - that's not really an option for me as i like everything drum/synth on its own channel in my sequencer.

Sounds like i need to wait (and save up more!) for the R24 - any comments?

thanks, dan

[FeatheredSerpent]

Well an R16 and a decent line mixer for the synths or percussion will be a lot less than an R24, but if you're going to mix on it as well then the R24 will be a nicer option if the feature set is as good and as flexible as some say it will be.

[victorjohn]

My wishlist is that a product with any number of specific functions that are usually the responsibility of a creative engineer be generated for me immediately at the price point of a single starbucks latte.

Oh yeah, and that I am awarded with accolades beyond belief for all things I do.

Do you guys think A&H can deliver? I have already set aside 37 cents for the r24, because it still lives in my imagination and is therefore better than any real, available options.

Thank you, and goodnight.
</sarcasm>

P.S. Don't sleep r16 rules. Make music today, not tomorrow.

[Brad McGowan]

I'm really interested to see what they end up releasing. At the last L.A. NAMM show I had a very lengthy and detailed conversation with a couple of their engineers about the design of a new hybrid mixing console. They seemed genuinely intrigued by some of my ideas; notes were being taken as I rambled on about layout and architecture. I followed up the discussion with some emails to a couple different guys after the show. I'll be curious to see if they implement some of the concepts I described to them. If so then this could be a really cool product that might offer some unique features to the end user.

Brad

[bexarametric]

DB25
Meterbridge
Cables run to the back, not the top
Can use sends in returns with DAW plugins
motorized 100mm faders


Then you get my Master Card

[Jorn Lavoll]

send me a pm before selling your R16 to upgrade to the 24 e.

[AlienHealth]

Hi Guys,

Wow! Such a response to a product we've not released yet! It certainly shows that there's a space in the market for the hybrid concept. I'm asked by Marketing to not let too much information out on the R24 but it sounds like you guys know what you want anyway and that's what we're going to try to give you!
I'm working towards showing the product at NAMM, I'll definitely keep you guys posted on how the development's going from now 'til then. It's too early to fix pricing, but naturally we're working on ways to keep it as affordable as possible - despite all the stuff we've crammed in!

Thanks again for the comments, ideas and support.

Cheers,
Mike.

[FeatheredSerpent]

Is there any need for beta testers?

I'm English if that gets me extra points

[rockstar_josh]

Beta testers? I'm not English but I'm already an Allen & Heath user!

[asagaai]

Yeah- ought be beta testers for different environments- specifically Australia with our sharks, salt water crocks and funnelwebs.

So count me in as the van dieman land tester

GJ
Newcastle/OZ

[Adlen]

Originally Posted by FeatheredSerpent

Is there any need for beta testers?

Ha! Count me in!

[PlayRadioPlay]

Put the ins and outs on the back and slant this thing!!!

Completely flat mixers with cables sticking out of the top of them look so cheap.

A meter bridge in front of the ins/outs like on the Toft would also be an option.

[Phaidon]

Originally Posted by PlayRadioPlay

Put the ins and outs on the back and slant this thing!!!

+1000