Does anyone use Pre-Fader Metering?

[hduncan]

Does anyone use Pre-Fader-Metering?

I could see it being helpful by showing you if you are clipping before the fader.. but does it matter if you are clipping before the fader as long as you bring the fader down to where its not clipping.

(Isn't that a no-no in the analogue world?)

[Kenny Gioia]

Plugins are all pre-fader so no matter how low you bring your fader, your plugins will still clip.

I never found a purpose for anything BUT pre-fader metering.

[Steffmo]

Well, if you are clipping before the fader, bringing down the fader will mean your mix will include a clipped track, albiet at a lower level.

Maybe a problem....maybe not. Depends on what it sounds like.

I'm in pre fader when tracking and either in mixing, probably post.

[Benmrx]

Originally Posted by Kenny Gioia

I never found a purpose for anything BUT pre-fader metering.

Same here. I practically NEVER switch to post-fader metering. The only reason would be if I'm tracking down a gain-staging problem......... thankfully that's happening less and less these days.

[Kenny Gioia]

I'm old school so I view the meters as my tape machine.

[Smithcok]

Has to be pre-fader for me.

[Vum]

Pre fader to track, post fader to mix

[Wayne]

Originally Posted by Benmrx

.. The only reason would be if I'm tracking down a gain-staging problem......... thankfully that's happening less and less these days.

Presuming the OP is talking ITB track levels, same here, and I'll go a step further- But for levels during tracking, I turn them off in mix mode. If your levels are where they should be what's to see? Exceptions, fixing and setting up out of range files, spot checking things if need be sure. Otherwise it's just a bunch of extra clutter and wasted screen.

[usamike]

Originally Posted by Vum

Pre fader to track, post fader to mix

Same here.

[Insomniaclown]

I sometimes throw up a pre fader meter to see what my compression and limiting are doing as far as bringing the RMS and peak levels closer together. Other than that, I just check it out see what level a track might be at after its recorded.

[Ashermusic]

Always pre-fader for me. My ears will tell me if a mix element is too loud or soft. I want the metering to tell me what signal is actually arriving at the channel.

[andsonic]

Pre fader for me. For all the reasons listed above. Post fader? That's what the stereo master meters are for.

In my Daw I have one stereo meter set up in RMS mode (K-20 or K-14 depending on the material) and one meter set in peak mode. I find if the vocals are just lighting up the RMS (+1 to +3 db), then the rest of the mix just falls into place.

[chrisrnps]

Another pre-fader-all-the-time here.

The meters tell me that somethings on the "tape" on that track / channel.

If I want to know how loud it is in the mix, I use my ears, or just look at the fader.

[jeremy.c.]

Originally Posted by Kenny Gioia

Plugins are all pre-fader so no matter how low you bring your fader, your plugins will still clip.

I never found a purpose for anything BUT pre-fader metering.

Funny, I never thought about it, but me too...
I was never taught any of this stuff beyond picking up pointers here and there, but pre-fader always has made the most sense to me, I find it useless personally post fader.

[theblue1]

In a DAW that uses floating point internal math, you won't clip inside the DAW's audio path -- but plug ins might clip or simply not respond well to levels outside their own sweet spot.

I use pre-fader monitoring on my tracks while recording (well, duh, it's hard-coded for good reason) and (generally) post-track-fader while playing back.

My DAW's track FX are pre-fader but post DAW-trim (a very handy little item that got added a number of years ago). Sends are switchable pre/post fader/pan.

On the bus I have three options: pre-fader, post-fader, and post-fader-and-fx. I'm using the latter.

[psycho_monkey]

pre-fader here. That's the way a tape machine and desk works - good enough for me!

[staudio]

Originally Posted by Kenny Gioia

Plugins are all pre-fader so no matter how low you bring your fader, your plugins will still clip.

I never found a purpose for anything BUT pre-fader metering.

I agree.

[Skip Burrows]

Originally Posted by Kenny Gioia

Plugins are all pre-fader so no matter how low you bring your fader, your plugins will still clip.

I never found a purpose for anything BUT pre-fader metering.

Man I think post fader metering in Protools or any DAW is like a Boob on a BULL.. Useless

[hduncan]

I always forget to clarify that I am talking about ITB, yes.

It just seems to me that theres no reason to look at the metering for any reason other than clipping or setting levels for plugins (if they have specific sweet spots, but how many plugs on average does this REALLY apply to? I'd think those that emulate hardware).

It seems like the only time you really need to even look at a meter (in the digital realm) is the final output, to make sure its not clipping as it goes to the analog world...

Post-Fader Metering really just lets you SEE the balance versus listening to it, maybe going Pre-Fader will make some of us too-visual guys start listening more?

I'm not at my computer right now, but does anyone know if Pre-Fader Metering is also Pre-Mute/Solo in Logic Pro?

I can see it being nice when you hit solo or mute in the mixer window to know which tracks are playing and which arent based on whether their meters are going, but other than that, I dont really see the reason for Post-Fader Metering.

[rwhitney]

Pre-fader to track, post-fader to mix. To me, levels are critical at every stage.

[-Noodles-]

I just checked a recent mix of mine (which was post fader).. some of the plugin levels were ridiculous!

Thanks to this topic to remind folk like me to always double check what's happening behind the faders!

[Vum]

Yeah, I got into the habit of using post-fader metering when I mix from receiving poorly recorded sessions. ITB and being so close to the screen, the meter levels were distracting so I started mixing post fader out of aesthetic alone.

I also like to have some visual representation when bringing up pads and synths - otherwise, there is little reason to do it. If you're going to check a meter, check the 2bus.

[Waltz Mastering]

Pre and Post

It's always good to know what's coming and going...

[Sigma]

Originally Posted by Kenny Gioia

Plugins are all pre-fader so no matter how low you bring your fader, your plugins will still clip.

I never found a purpose for anything BUT pre-fader metering.

agree

[MichaelMcDonald]

Sorry - first post here -

I'm rather confused. In Logic, the manual says there's no input level metering, the fader level is just for playback/monitoring. Yet there is an option for pre-fader metering. Wouldn't that be the same thing as input monitoring? If I have a guitar track armed for recording, and choose pre-fader metering, isn't that going to show the input level?

I thought I also read in the manual that the mixer view shows input level, although I can't find that anymore so maybe I read it somewhere else.

So, in Logic at least, what exactly is pre-fader metering showing me? Is it just the difference between the dry signal and any plugins?

Thanks.

[Makinithappen]

Another Pre fader guy here.... One of the other guys here always works postfader and I have to change it back every time I use his rig. I can't see the benefit.

Originally Posted by MichaelMcDonald

If I have a guitar track armed for recording, and choose pre-fader metering, isn't that going to show the input level?

Makes sense to me. I don't know anything about Logic, though.

[larry b]

I use pre-fader metering almost exclusively.

[sound_music]

+ 1 for pre fader, for me the true imput level is the only thing a fader level indicator is useful for!

[Yosh!]

+1 Pre Fader
Always, always always during tracking!
Once you clip a signal coming in (assuming you don't want that sound) you're stuck with it no mater what else you do.

I switch to post fader only as confirmation/troubleshooting when I'm hearing something I don't expect, or to check relative levels post compression.

[brian_delizza]

Originally Posted by Kenny Gioia

I never found a purpose for anything BUT pre-fader metering.

+1 for that