Problem with Adam S3-A (rattle)

[EduardoApolonia]

I am having a problem with my Adams S3-A
My bass drivers are making a rattle in freqs below about 120hz.
When I am listening to sounds that have a lot of low freq energy (Bass, keyboards low notes, etc.) the monitors rattle.

I made some tests, if I inject a sine wave and sweep it from 20hz to about 120hz into the monitors they will always make that rattle.

I already contacted Adam by email and they told me to send the monitors to Adam HQ Germany and that the problem is:
"In the woofer can detached a swarf from the process of manufacture from the
woofer by ETON what then the rattle noise caused. "

But since the monitors aren't covered with warranty I would like to know how complex is the problem and if this is a manufacture defect.
This has never happened to my previous monitors that I had for more time.

I already sent 2 emails to Adam (5th July and 11th July) to get this answers but I didn't get any reply

Can anybody give me a help?

Thanks

[Sergievsky]

Sorry for my bonehead reply, but have you tried different cables? I had more of a gurgling than rattle, but turned out the solder on the plug wasn't quite up to snuff.

[Ruudman]

Could be one of the bass ports; I've had trouble with that..

ruudman

[alphajerk]

i would personally track down the rattle... how come they arent under warranty?

i have no rattles with mine and i have abused my S3-A's probably more than most people who own them.

if it is a simple driver issue and you can be certain of that, i would have them send you a driver for replacement... but otherwise i would locate the rattle and see about fixing it yourself. it does suprise me how few of people seem to automatically do that anymore.

[EduardoApolonia]

First, thank you all for your help.
I'll answer the questions now and make some.

Originally Posted by Sergievsky

Sorry for my bonehead reply, but have you tried different cables? I had more of a gurgling than rattle, but turned out the solder on the plug wasn't quite up to snuff.

I have already tried everything to be sure it was the monitors.

Originally Posted by Ruudman

Could be one of the bass ports; I've had trouble with that..

what do you call bass ports? the holes or the drivers? In my case the bass drivers of both monitors are making the rattle.

Originally Posted by Alphajerk

how come they arent under warranty?

I have bought them 3 years ago.

Originally Posted by Alphajerk

i would locate the rattle and see about fixing it yourself

How do you fix it?

Thanks again.

[Ruudman]

I meant the holes with plastic tubes in them.


ruudman

[alphajerk]

both of them are rattling? LF energy can cause rattles just about anywhere... i would try isolating the rattle one speaker at a time. find WHICH driver is rattling [sub or lowmid], or if it is the port i would take the drivers out.... sometimes a rattle elsewhere if both speakers are suspect... check objects in your room that could be rattling.


also see if the rattle happens at what volume... or what volume the rattle becomes apparent... if at low volume, you can usually rule out something in the room.... listen for the location of the rattle. maybe make sure all the screws are thghtened down fully. take OUT the drivers and run program through it and see if they rattle out of cabinet... look at the backside of the drivers and see if there are any anomolies. and so on.

[faeflora]

Can you record the rattle?

[EduardoApolonia]

Originally Posted by Ruudman

I meant the holes with plastic tubes in them.

The ports are not rattling, I already took the plastic "tubs" out and it didn't make any difference.

Originally Posted by alphajerk

i would try isolating the rattle one speaker at a time. find WHICH driver is rattling [sub or lowmid], or if it is the port

The drivers that are rattling are the sub ones. I can place my ear near the drivers and hear that is the sub driver that is doing the rattling and not the lowmid or any object in the room. it rattles at ranges that only the Sub driver is working, like below 100hz.

Originally Posted by alphajerk

also see if the rattle happens at what volume... or what volume the rattle becomes apparent... if at low volume, you can usually rule out something in the room.... listen for the location of the rattle. maybe make sure all the screws are thghtened down fully.

It starts rattling at low-moderate volumes and rattles more as volume increases.
The screws were the first thing I suspected but unfortunatly they are all tightened.

Originally Posted by alphajerk

take OUT the drivers and run program through it and see if they rattle out of cabinet... look at the backside of the drivers and see if there are any anomolies. and so on.

Is it safe to take them out? do I need any special care?

Originally Posted by faeflora

Can you record the rattle?

Unfortunatly at the moment I have my studio "packed". I have been doing some changes inside my house including where I have the "studio" so I had to "pack" the studio.
That's also why I am taking care of this problem with the Adams, this problem is going for +/- a year.
But I'll try to arrange a solution to record it. I think that it may help to have some more suggestions.

Thanks again

[robmix]

I had the same problem with one of my S3a's, replacing the sub cured the problem.

Rob

[EduardoApolonia]

Rob,

How much did it cost to replace the sub?

[alphajerk]

sounds like it might be a blown voice coil.... possibly. or delamination of the cone. try pushing against the sub speaker softly and see if you can feel any "grinding" when it goes in and out... it will be subtle, but that is a blown voice coil. if it moves smoothly in and out, it is possibly delamination, check the surround and see if it looks like it is coming apart. otherwise, take the driver out [philips head screwdriver] by the screws around the driver and gently tilt the speaker while "catching" the driver [dont let it drop out] and examine the backside for anything out of the ordinary.

i would suggest ordering new drivers and installing them yourself noting what cable leads are plugged to what terminals on the driver [otherwise you will flip phase if you get it backwards on it]. that will probably be a LOT cheaper than paying freight on the full enclosure to and from the factory.

one minor thing to check, though its most unlikely.... make sure all the screws surround the sub driver are tight before you remove the speaker.... if any are loose, hand tighten them and re-check for rattles.

[steins]

Had a similar problem with one speaker in our first pair of SA3´s. These were demo units. I was offered to buy these at a reduced price, but I opted for a brand new pair. Didn´t get a straight answer from the dealer on what could cause the trouble, other than "its under warranty so we will fix it".

Sorry I can´t of any real help. I would ship the speaker to ADAM and get it fixes. It might cost some $$$$$, but then again, the problem would be fixed.

Stein Tore

[EduardoApolonia]

Would this be a Adam speaker weakness or something that happens to all monitors? I had a pair of Event speakers that I sold before buying the

I recorded with a D112 directly to a laptop (using the laptop mic input ) the beginning of the song Angel by Massive attack where I could listen to the problem well.
I couldn't hear on the laptop the sound of it, the laptop speakers can't reproduce so low frequencies.

I'll get the sounds online as soon as possible.

[robmix]

Originally Posted by EduardoApolonia

Rob,

How much did it cost to replace the sub?

I don't remember, might've been around $275 or so.

[EduardoApolonia]

Here are 2 samples that you can listen to the problem.

I recorded the beginning of the song Angel by Massive Attack with a SM57 on axis to the S3A bass woofer.

There are 2 versions:

1 - As I recorded it.
2 - Eqed (high pass) to hear the problem better.

[alphajerk]

hard to tell much from that...

[EduardoApolonia]

Originally Posted by alphajerk

hard to tell much from that...

Do you know the original music?

Maybee I can place an mp3 with the original music to compare, to see that there is no rattle in the recorded music.
Don't know if I can do that, is there any copyright problem?

[steins]

Originally Posted by EduardoApolonia

Here are 2 samples that you can listen to the problem.

I recorded the beginning of the song Angel by Massive Attack with a SM57 on axis to the S3A bass woofer.

There are 2 versions:

1 - As I recorded it.
2 - Eqed (high pass) to hear the problem better.

That's not the same rattle I had in mine. I think this sounds like a blown woofer.

Stein Tore

[Thermionic]

If you want to check the condition of the coil, compare the DC resistance of each side (whilst the drivers are disconnected).

When I had a very similar problem a while back, I thought it was a loose port... After speaking with the OEM, they reckoned that out of 10,000 units sold, a port had only come loose on 2 occasions....

IIRC, the problem turned out to be the foam surround - the surround was worn out, and the coil was scraping against the magnet assembly.

How old are the speakers? Unless they're over 5 yrs I'd be very surprised if it was the surround, although I guess you could experience the same problem if the tolerance of the fit changed over a period of time... Maybe a heavy LF transient damaged the surround fit due to heavy excursion??

BTW, I don't know ADAMs, but often OEMs design a monitor in such a way that you have to know how to disassemble it - i.e. you may have to loosen off the back-plates because there may not be enough slack cable in there to get to the back of the driver with the plate in place. Do be careful!


Justin

[EduardoApolonia]

Originally Posted by Thermionic

If you want to check the condition of the coil, compare the DC resistance of each side (whilst the drivers are disconnected).


How old are the speakers? Unless they're over 5 yrs I'd be very surprised if it was the surround, although I guess you could experience the same problem if the tolerance of the fit changed over a period of time... Maybe a heavy LF transient damaged the surround fit due to heavy excursion??


Justin

I am not very good on electronics, how do you compare the DC resistance? Just measure the resistance from the + to the - of each coil?

The speakers are 3 years old but they are used like a (6 months-1 year) old monitors if they were used everyday.

The foam surround you are speaking is the one that the coil touches in the back?


I already talked to the portuguese distributor and I will go there with the monitors to see if they can fix them there or if the monitors will have to go to Germany.