(drummer) John Densmore wins lawsuit against current "Doors".

[Sounds Great]

The Los Angeles Superior Court order also requires keyboardist
Ray Manzarek and guitarist
Robby Krieger, who have been touring as The Doors of the 21st Century, to turn over all the profits earned by the new combo to the original Doors partnership.

The decision represents a major victory for Doors drummer
John Densmore, who told Reuters he was concerned that the band's legacy was being tarnished by its reincarnation as an oldies act.

http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=stor...isure_doors_dc

[doorknocker]

Didn't Stewart Copeland also sue them because he got thrown out from the Doors revival act?
It struck me as VERY odd hearing that a musician of his stature would join them in the first place...

Andi

www.doorknocker.ch

[Drumsound]

Densmore is the only one of them who seems to care about the legacy more than is bank account.

BRAVO!

[drockfresh]

Originally Posted by Drumsound

Densmore is the only one of them who seems to care about the legacy more than is bank account.

Or so he says. It wasn't clear to me in the article that Densmore's motives were purely selfless:

"The Los Angeles Superior Court order also requires keyboardist
Ray Manzarek and guitarist......to turn over all the profits earned by the new combo to the original Doors partnership.."

I'm not accusing him of anything...we don't know for sure...it just seems that there is likely another side to the story.

[Albert]

Originally Posted by Drumsound

Densmore is the only one of them who seems to care about the legacy more than is bank account.

Puh-leeese. It's about the money, and revenge. That's the way I see it.

[not_so_new]

Originally Posted by Drumsound

Densmore is the only one of them who seems to care about the legacy more than is bank account.

BRAVO!

Not picking threads to disagree with you or anything Drumsound.. sorry...

thumbsup

I think slinging mud is pretty easy for us looking in from the outside but this is their lives right?

We don't know the details, maybe Manzarek and Krieger are broke? The 60's were a long long time ago and residuals are not always what they are cracked up to be.

Maybe they just wanted to play to a crowd larger than 20 drunks in a L.A. dive? Every once in a while I get the itch to play out again (then I think about the same 20 drunks here screaming Free Bird.. *sigh* ) I am sure that itch is much stronger for someone like the original members of a cultural icon like the Doors. I don't wish them ill for wanting to play music.

When it comes down to it Densmore was okay and all but the real genius of the band was Manzarek, he was the real song writer and the most talented player. Of all of the remaining members he is the one with the most ground to stand on about the band (I know they were a band and a comany as a group but he was the soul of the band).

I have also heard is he the most down to earth of all of them and a real stand up guy.

When the movie was released he was the one against it even though they all stood to make money from it. He was against it because it was not a true representation of what happened. Good for him.

[Drumsound]

My comments were based on things I've read and seen in the past. I didn't even read the link.

He has continuously said no to using Doors music in ads. He has been the one to say no to tours. He has a belief that he's standing behind and I believe that deserves commending.

If the other guys are broke that's sad. I believe they are very talented cats, all of them.

[grahluk]

Originally Posted by Drumsound

He has continuously said no to using Doors music in ads. He has been the one to say no to tours. He has a belief that he's standing behind and I believe that deserves commending..

Uh I just saw in a magazine around the studio last week that the ENTIRE Doors catalog is now available for licensing=ads. The me generation at it again. They wanted freedom and revolution when all they wanted was to get high, laid, and do what ever the hell they pleased. Now they'll sell their most idealistic moments for a little padding of the ol' 401k. Had John Lennon lived do you suppose he would have sold the rights of "imagine" for a Hummer ad campaign?

[uvc1977]

Originally Posted by not_so_new

When it comes down to it Densmore was okay and all but the real genius of the band was Manzarek, he was the real song writer and the most talented player. Of all of the remaining members he is the one with the most ground to stand on about the band (I know they were a band and a comany as a group but he was the soul of the band).

Just a correction there but Robby Krieger wrote the majority of music in the Doors and Jim Morrison obviously the lyrics.

[doorknocker]

Correct me if I'm wrong but wasn't Densmore also part of this 'Doors' revival thing in the beginning. I remember reading about him having carpal tunnel syndrom or something and not being able to play drums/tour anymore.
Obviously they replaced him with Copeland then (who got fired later) and Densmore started suing them.

It's all a bit strange but remember that back in the day the 3 remaining Doors went on to make 2 more albums after Morrison died. This time though they decided to 'clone' the Lizard king, and that's where it gets laughable, IMO.

Some Doors Tribute CD was released a few years ago, it featured Krieger and Manzarek among others, and I remember a reviewer saying that's it's slightly creepy having members of the Doors perform on their own tribute album.

I doubt that this 'Doors 2000' thing (or whatever it's called) is very profitable, they surely won't be playing arenas. Let's hope that they didn't sign their publishing away though, now THAT is a lucrative thing as you know.

My thing is that the Doors made one terrific album, their debut, and even if they'd never played a note after that, their place in the rock Olymp would still be secured.
(I would hate to miss 'Moonlight Ride' and 'Riders on the storm' though!)

Man, what a great record that still is, I'll have to listen to it today.

Andi

www.doorknocker.ch

[max cooper]

Somebody explain 'Full Circle'

[Jamz]

Nothing wrong with Manzerek and Kreiger playing out. However, they should honor their contract concerning income derived through the use or representation of their name. Densmore's entitled to earn an income from that entity even if he was canned from performing live. The integrity issue makes for respectable press but I believe Densmore's law suit had a little more to do with his bank account than the bands legacy. OK! a lot more.

As far as Manzerek and Kreiger being broke...as stated above...kreiger is all over their recordings as a writer. He ain't broke and for whatever pieces of the writers pie that Manzerek shared in I'm sure he's far from starving. Performance royalties alone on radio play...I should be that broke.

[Rodney Gene]

Originally Posted by grahluk

Uh I just saw in a magazine around the studio last week that the ENTIRE Doors catalog is now available for licensing=ads. The me generation at it again. They wanted freedom and revolution when all they wanted was to get high, laid, and do what ever the hell they pleased. Now they'll sell their most idealistic moments for a little padding of the ol' 401k. Had John Lennon lived do you suppose he would have sold the rights of "imagine" for a Hummer ad campaign?

They are his to sell... How can that possibly be negative?

Sure...nobody likes to hear thier personal favorite' songs farmed out..but in reality those aren't ours at all..they just represent a particular time-frame in our lives.
But surely they represent his life as well.

It doesn't change thier contribution..the Doors rocked..can't take that away no matter how many songs they license.

If my friends, family and life needed support I would do whatever was needed to make it happen. Geez..Why would I bash on anybody for surviving in this shitty business? Sell my songs?..the ones I wrote and the very ones that have already been diluted and thinned to death by Classic Rock radio for 20 years...?

No brainer.

P&B,

[allbaldo]

I haven't read anything about this other than this thread, so I'm totally uninformed, but if the Manzarek/Krieger camp are calling themselves "The Doors Of The 21st Century", that's not the same thing as calling themselves "The Doors". Yes, they're trading on the Doors' legacy, but the different name does set them apart in a way. I'm suprised the lawsuit went the way it did, considering that fact.

[Jamz]

Altering the name slightly is a feeble attempt at skirting the semantics of law.
Bottom line....intent, content and representation are obviously clear.

If they toured as The Manzerek/Kreiger Band and performed all newly written material then Densmore doesn't deserve a penny. However, it is clear what they are advertising.

[Kestral]

I'm a huge Doors fan, a few facts to clear things up:

For the most part Doors songs are credited to "The Doors" as an entire entity. This was something Jim Morrison brought up to the band before they were signed and they all agreed on it since they felt that everyone made a significant contribution.

The only exception is on the album Soft Parade where Jim wanted the credits split up because he did not want people to think he wrote certain lyrics. One strong example is the track "Tell All The People". Jim had a huge problem with the line, "Can't you see me growing get your guns." He really didn't like the part about the getting the guns.

That being said, Robbie wrote almost all of Light My Fire (except for a few lyrics), Love Me Two Times, Love Her Madly, Touch Me. That's some of their biggest hits.

But I agree that Ray was really the glue that held the band together, playing keyboard bass and various keyboards, he filled up a lot of The Doors' unique sound.

Did anyone read the biography of Danny Sugarman, manager for The Doors during the 70's? As manager, he got a full member split and he referred to millions he was raking in on an annual basis. This was in the 70's, well before at least two huge Doors resurgences in the 80's and 90's (and that's not including the movie, a few new Greatest Hits packages, etc etc etc). Also, I have an old Keyboard Magazine interview from circa 87 where Ray basically said he was doing more than very well. I doubt they're hurting for cash.

One last thing: doorknocker, I completely disagree with your statement that the Doors only had one good album. EVERY single album with the exception of Soft Parade was strong and considered in the top albums of all time. Even if you're just a casual fan, the first two albums, The Doors and Strange Days are in the top echelons of the greatest albums of all time.

[allbaldo]

Originally Posted by Jamz

Altering the name slightly is a feeble attempt at skirting the semantics of law.
Bottom line....intent, content and representation are obviously clear.

If they toured as The Manzerek/Kreiger Band and performed all newly written material then Densmore doesn't deserve a penny. However, it is clear what they are advertising.

I agree, but I'm still suprised...it's the legal system after all.

[T_R_S]

Originally Posted by doorknocker

Didn't Stewart Copeland also sue them because he got thrown out from the Doors revival act?
It struck me as VERY odd hearing that a musician of his stature would join them in the first place...

Andi

www.doorknocker.ch

It's no more odd than Elliot Easton (Guitarist from the Cars) play with Credance Clearwater Revisited

[not_so_new]

Originally Posted by Kestral

Did anyone read the biography of Danny Sugarman, manager for The Doors during the 70's? As manager, he got a full member split and he referred to millions he was raking in on an annual basis. This was in the 70's, well before at least two huge Doors resurgences in the 80's and 90's (and that's not including the movie, a few new Greatest Hits packages, etc etc etc). Also, I have an old Keyboard Magazine interview from circa 87 where Ray basically said he was doing more than very well. I doubt they're hurting for cash.

Fair enough maybe they are not starved for cash (of course Terrell Owens can't feed his family on $49 million for 7 years so who knows.... yeah right ).

Anyway my point above was we don't know what is in the minds of these guys so let'm play. Hell my guess is that they really just want to play music, that is pretty cool to me.

[Jamz]

Originally Posted by allbaldo

I agree, but I'm still suprised...it's the legal system after all.

Well...that's my point. Making a slight addition to the name could not possibly alter the obvious intent and representation. The legal system refused to be duped by such a feeble attempt to dodge responsibility. That is the legal system.

[fifthcircle]

I met John Densmore a couple years back when I had to go record an interview he gave. One thing I was struck by was the how genuine of a person he seemed to be. Truely a nice guy. I will say, though, that he has a huge concern about maintaining the image of the work they did as a band. It was obviously a major part of his life and affected him very deeply. I can see how his seeing money being made off of a tribute group would bother him.

--Ben

[doorknocker]

Originally Posted by Kestral

One last thing: doorknocker, I completely disagree with your statement that the Doors only had one good album. EVERY single album with the exception of Soft Parade was strong and considered in the top albums of all time. Even if you're just a casual fan, the first two albums, The Doors and Strange Days are in the top echelons of the greatest albums of all time.

Thanks for telling me what I should like .

This is the problem of the 'superfan', you're offended when there's nothing to be offended by.

Most bands would be happy to come up with one album as good as 'Strange Days' in their entire carrer. I like it too, very much so in fact, but to me it doesn't even come close to the first one, ESPECIALLY because of the Lizard King, who surely was one of the fastest burn-outs in rock history but that's just MHO, so why argue?

'The Doors' is a perfect album, one of my desert island discs and BTW also happening on CD, thanks to a great Bernie Grundman remaster.

Andi

www.doorknocker.ch

[Kestral]

Originally Posted by doorknocker

Thanks for telling me what I should like .

This is the problem of the 'superfan', you're offended when there's nothing to be offended by.

Most bands would be happy to come up with one album as good as 'Strange Days' in their entire carrer. I like it too, very much so in fact, but to me it doesn't even come close to the first one, ESPECIALLY because of the Lizard King, who surely was one of the fastest burn-outs in rock history but that's just MHO, so why argue?

Anything you need someone to point out your lack of taste, I'm there for ya!

But seriously, there wasn't an argument until you said that the Doors only had one good album, which imo was a severe injustice to one of the most brilliant bands of all time, superfan or not. Ya reap what ya sow.

[doorknocker]

Originally Posted by Kestral

But seriously, there wasn't an argument until you said that the Doors only had one good album....

Nope, I said they made one TERRIFIC album, big difference.


Andi

www.doorknocker.ch