Thoughts on new drum CD
Old 15th April 2003
  #1
Gear Guru
 
chrisso's Avatar
 

Thread Starter
Thoughts on new drum CD

I'm thinking about producing a new drum sample CD.
So what would Gearslutz want to see in a drum sample CD?

Stereo loops?
(Less of the overcomplicated stuff sample producers seem to think we want).
More rock and 'alternative' grooves?
(Doesn't seem to be much out there).
Lots of single hits?
(I notice a lot of people are using Sound Replacer).
Unmixed drum tracks?
(Maybe across 8 tracks of Logic/Performer/PT etc)

Any other thoughts gratefully accepted.
Old 15th April 2003
  #2
"Mix ready" rock drums that dont need eq & comp, that are suitable for total swappage with the original sounds in a mixing situation.

Anyone can mic good drum with good gear in a good room and say

- "there ya go! Here are monitor mix quality drum hits & grooves that need a lot of work done to em for them to work well (or even at all) in a mix, good luck and thanks for the money, bye!"

Less one 'drum recording session" but more a life times worth of drum sample collection from the briefcase of a busy pro.

Hello.......Chrisso?

Are you still there?

........ I think he's gone.

Old 15th April 2003
  #3
Lives for gear
 
Renie's Avatar
 

Re: Thoughts on new drum CD

Quote:
Originally posted by chrisso
I'm thinking about producing a new drum sample CD.
So what would Gearslutz want to see in a drum sample CD?

Stereo loops?
(Less of the overcomplicated stuff sample producers seem to think we want).
More rock and 'alternative' grooves?
(Doesn't seem to be much out there).
Lots of single hits?
(I notice a lot of people are using Sound Replacer).
Unmixed drum tracks?
(Maybe across 8 tracks of Logic/Performer/PT etc)

Any other thoughts gratefully accepted.
Couple of thoughts, more stereo loops where the drummer plays through a whole song, with all sorts of varaition and dynamic builds and drops.
Something i know people complain about with sampled stuff is that the 'drummer' doesn't seem to know the song.
Jay said something the other day about the sterility of isolated hits so maybe including a bit of rattle from the rest of the kit in the single hits..

> offering something more generally in terms of the air, movement and ambience that gels the single hits and could appeal to programmers trying to attain more sweat and realism!!!

Also there's a lack of cool 3/4 6/8 drum loops imho.
Old 15th April 2003
  #4
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e-cue's Avatar
 

Re: Thoughts on new drum CD

Quote:
Originally posted by chrisso
I'm thinking about producing a new drum sample CD.
So what would Gearslutz want to see in a drum sample CD?

Stereo loops?
(Less of the overcomplicated stuff sample producers seem to think we want).
More rock and 'alternative' grooves?
(Doesn't seem to be much out there).
Lots of single hits?
(I notice a lot of people are using Sound Replacer).
Unmixed drum tracks?
(Maybe across 8 tracks of Logic/Performer/PT etc)

Any other thoughts gratefully accepted.
I vote for single hits. 96K doesn't interest me at this point. If you are going to do loops, doing them across 8 tracks would be most helpful.
Old 15th April 2003
  #5
Gear Guru
 
chrisso's Avatar
 

Thread Starter
Re: Re: Thoughts on new drum CD

Quote:
Originally posted by e-cue
96K doesn't interest me at this point.
What would you prefer? I was thinking 44.1, in other words in audio CD format.
Jules,
I would be trying to make them 'ready to go'. I'll keep in mind that some people like to do their own processing though.
I'm thinking of including my solo hit collection recorded over the years. Most are sampled with the entire mic rig, hence plenty of snare rattle and tom hum.
Thanks for the contri's so far!
Old 15th April 2003
  #6
Lives for gear
 

One of my mixing clients has done his own drum sample sessions. He has the single drum hits, overheads, room mikes, etc all seperated out and phase locked. You get OH and room on any single drum hit.

It is stupid how good it sounds. I could (maybe I will) post an mp3 of just the drums, soloed, and you would swear it's a really good drummer having a really good day.

One album I mixed, half the songs were live drummer (one of the best in town) and half were his programmed drums with his custom sounds. I'm not sure which was better (both were great), but no way you could tell which was which by the time it was mixed.

With a bit of TLC, the multitracked hits can sound amazing in a song, but it requires a phase locked, sample accurate playback engine with multi outs to do it right. For instance, Logic has only acheived this capability relatively recently AFAIK, so I suppose it's still a bit new to most folks.


Regards,
Brian T
Old 15th April 2003
  #7
Lives for gear
 
e-cue's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally posted by chrisso
What would you prefer? I was thinking 44.1, in other words in audio CD format.
Jules,
I would be trying to make them 'ready to go'.
Audio cd would make it the most accessable, so yeah. That would work.

Quote:
Originally posted by BrianT
One of my mixing clients has done his own drum sample sessions. He has the single drum hits, overheads, room mikes, etc all seperated out and phase locked. You get OH and room on any single drum hit.Regards,
Brian T
I should start doing this. I've got over 50 gigs of individual hits, but I usually narrow it down to a CDr I take with me from gig to gig, depending on if I'm studio hopping or actually rooting down.
Old 15th April 2003
  #8
Re: Re: Re: Thoughts on new drum CD

Quote:
Originally posted by chrisso
What would you prefer? I was thinking 44.1, in other words in audio CD format.
Jules,
I would be trying to make them 'ready to go'. I'll keep in mind that some people like to do their own processing though.
I'm thinking of including my solo hit collection recorded over the years. Most are sampled with the entire mic rig, hence plenty of snare rattle and tom hum.
Thanks for the contri's so far!
A 24 bit CD-Rom for me.

If they were PT files even better(EXS 24 logic file would work also).

I am definitely one for individual hits.

No processing also.

And....

A partridge in a pear tree wouldn't hurt either.
Old 15th April 2003
  #9
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Ol' Betsey's Avatar
Quote:
Originally posted by Jules
"Mix ready" rock drums that dont need eq & comp, that are suitable for total swappage with the original sounds in a mixing situation.
If only it was that easy!

PT versions of unprocessed drums across eight tracks; shakes, rattles and hums included would be great. I've started whacking down individual hits across all tracks at the end of each session and then doing submixes of each drum when and if I need to break out () Sound Replacer.

Quote:
Originally posted by BrianT
One album I mixed, half the songs were live drummer (one of the best in town) and half were his programmed drums with his custom sounds. I'm not sure which was better (both were great), but no way you could tell which was which by the time it was mixed.
I would love to hear this too. I'm not huge on programming but I know there's some real wizards out there.

Good luck and let us know how it goes, ok?

R.
Old 15th April 2003
  #10
Gear maniac
 
Neve Sucks!'s Avatar
 

Great Thread!

The funny thing is that I just finished up a new Sample Cd for E-Lab Sweden!
"Acoustic Soul"
Acoustic recorded combined with R´n´b/HipHop samples. Very groovy and phat!
The format will be 24bit 44,1 kHz stereo .wav files and a special edition double DVD with Protools sessions. On the Protools edition all the trax are separate, overheads, room, snare over and under, etc.

For all ya´ll gearslutz:
Overheads--> Blue Bottle--> Helios pre/eq--> ADL 1600--> Cranesong HEDD
Room--> Manley RefC--> Chandler LTD-1 --> Pendulum Comp
Snare Over--> Sennheiser 441--> Chandler EMI pre--> Daking comp--> Summit EQF-100
Snare Under--> ADK SC-1--> Chandler EMI pre--> Daking comp--> Summit EQF-100
Kick Near--> RE20 or D12--> Daking pre/eq--> Amek DMCL--> Summit Pulteq
Kick Far--> ADK A-48--> Daking pre/eq--> LA2--> Summit Pulteq
Tom 1--> Sennheiser 441--> Vintech X73--> Distressor
Tom 2--> Sennheiser 441--> Vintech X73--> Distressor
Tom 3--> Sennheiser 441--> Calrec RQP-3200

All recorded into Protools HD with 192 interfaces.


I´ve done a couple of cd´s before, check ém out:
http://www.e-lab.se/nu_groove_rnb.htm
http://www.e-lab.se/strictly_rnb.htm
http://www.e-lab.se/strictly_hiphop.htm
http://www.e-lab.se/vin3.htm
http://www.e-lab.se/strictly_house.htm
http://www.e-lab.se/strictly_12.htm
http://www.powerfx.com/ click "DownTown Beats"

I will post some nice pictures tomorrow.....





/T
Old 15th April 2003
  #11
Gear addict
 
RobAcid's Avatar
 

neve sucks..... great !! i really like your work and i use it.
Old 16th April 2003
  #12
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davemc's Avatar
 

Hey Chris,

Multi track CD's where the drums sound good would be cool.
Most need so much processing or are just overprocessed...

I still do not know why there is not a sample CD already in sound replacer format with the three levels of hits worked out.
So you just load the sucker straight from the CD.
Now that would be cool...
Old 16th April 2003
  #13
BTW - how do you pay the drummer on these?

Whats the "done thing" to do regaeding this?

Jules
Old 16th April 2003
  #14
Gear Guru
 
chrisso's Avatar
 

Thread Starter
In most cases it's usually the drummer behind the CD. In other words they are 'the producer'.
The main CD house or distributor seems to get the lion's share though.
In my experience the original producers can expect a cut of around 10%.
I don't know what Eric Persing at Spectrasonics does though. Most of his drum CD's include several drummers. Not sure if it's a buy out or whether a cut is attributed to each contributor.
Old 16th April 2003
  #15
Gear Guru
 
chrisso's Avatar
 

Thread Starter
Re: Great Thread!

Quote:
Originally posted by Neve Sucks!

Overheads--> Blue Bottle--> Helios pre/eq--> ADL 1600--> Cranesong HEDD
Room--> Manley RefC--> Chandler LTD-1 --> Pendulum Comp
Snare Over--> Sennheiser 441--> Chandler EMI pre--> Daking comp--> Summit EQF-100
Snare Under--> ADK SC-1--> Chandler EMI pre--> Daking comp--> Summit EQF-100
Kick Near--> RE20 or D12--> Daking pre/eq--> Amek DMCL--> Summit Pulteq
Kick Far--> ADK A-48--> Daking pre/eq--> LA2--> Summit Pulteq
Tom 1--> Sennheiser 441--> Vintech X73--> Distressor
Tom 2--> Sennheiser 441--> Vintech X73--> Distressor
Tom 3--> Sennheiser 441--> Calrec RQP-3200

My perfect drum CD would contain as much variety as possible. We're hoping to record at two different studios - minimum. We'll use as many different mic set ups as we can think of and at least 3 different kits. I'll be scoping Gearslutz for all the drum micing threads there have been in the past BTW.
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