MXL V67G or MXL v69 Mogami Tube? Cast Your Vote!

[craven]

so i found a MXL v69 mogami tube for $135, and a MXL v67G for 90, so i figured i would throw up a poll to see what you guys think...

mike over at octava mods says that the best mic under 500 is the MXL v67g....but, lets see what you all think.


i am looking for a really warmish/dark sound....with less top end and more low-mids.....

cast your vote, and your thoughts!

[craven]

time to vote!! LOL

[awakened]

Originally Posted by craven

so i found a MXL v69 mogami tube for $135

thats a good price (as long as it wasnt abused, lol).

change the tube and you're good to go. although, i've owned the v67g and, to my ear, it IS the best condenser under $100.

[craven]

Originally Posted by awakened

thats a good price (as long as it wasnt abused, lol).

change the tube and you're good to go. although, i've owned the v67g and, to my ear, it IS the best condenser under $100.

what tube would i need? also is the v67g better than the v63m? or most mics under 400?

[craven]

wow, v69 pulling way ahead.....i guess it must be a more popular mic then huh?

[memphisindie]

Tube mics have a more open top end and therefore can be abused by compresors without sounding squished, solid state like the V67g get a little boxy quicker.
That's probably why people like them and once you change the tube it's a better mic.
Any mic can be modded though.
I modded the snot outta my V67g and I like it a lot more than stock, much stronger mic now.

[NesNeedsGear]

Originally Posted by craven

i am looking for a really warmish/dark sound....with less top end and more low-mids.....

cast your vote, and your thoughts!

v69ME with NOS mullard 12at7 tube in good condition.

plenty of low mids...without sibilance. it actually ends up sounding like a more "open" dynamic mic.

[awakened]

Originally Posted by craven

wow, v69 pulling way ahead.....i guess it must be a more popular mic then huh?

they are pretty much the same. people are voting for the v69 because you said you can get it for $135. like i said, at that price it is def the better deal.

tube mics are not better than FET mics, just different. if you're doing a "budget" setup, i would go with the v69 because it might help compensate for warmth and detail that you may not have with your preamps. if you were using the v67g with a low-end pre (firepod, mbox, etc), it may sound a little thin. this also brings the sound of the room into consideration...

oh man, just opened a whole can o worms

[craven]

i have a m-audio fast track ultra 8R with octane pre amps.....so the v69 would be better for that?

also where do i get tubes?

[Empty Planet]

Originally Posted by memphisindie

Tube mics have a more open top end and therefore can be abused by compresors without sounding squished, solid state like the V67g get a little boxy quicker.

Have to take exception to this kind of blanket statement.

There are great tube mics and lousy tube mics, horrible solid state mics and unbelievably fantastic solid state mics.

Wish there were some fast way to sort the good from the bad, but it's just not that easy. You match the mic to the voice or the instrument, sometimes you'll get surprising combinations, sometimes not. Until you make that match-up in your own studio, the usefulness of any given mic remains abstract.

Good luck to the OP in any case.


Cheers.

[dmartin]

The v69 is a better deal. I'd take it.

[awakened]

Originally Posted by craven

i have a m-audio fast track ultra 8R with octane pre amps.....so the v69 would be better for that?

also where do i get tubes?

probably...to my recollection the octanes aren't necessarily "power-pres." Depending upon the style of music you do, I'd probably look into getting at least one SOLID vocal pre. the daking one is pretty good at under $700

[memphisindie]

Originally Posted by Empty Planet

Have to take exception to this kind of blanket statement.

There are great tube mics and lousy tube mics, horrible solid state mics and unbelievably fantastic solid state mics.

Wish there were some fast way to sort the good from the bad, but it's just not that easy. You match the mic to the voice or the instrument, sometimes you'll get surprising combinations, sometimes not. Until you make that match-up in your own studio, the usefulness of any given mic remains abstract.

Good luck to the OP in any case.

Cheers.

There is nothing wrong with this statement, it didn't say one was "good or bad", or, better than the other.
That's not what I was addresing at all.
Due to the circuit designs of tube mics and all tube amplification, the tube design even the el-cheapo and shit mics will have a more open top than a given solid state mic, and will handle compression better than a solid state mic, HOWEVER, you also are very correct because any circuit can be made to counter boxy-ness under compression in a solid state design, in other words, you can make, mod, or, buy a solid state mic that has a very open top end.
Is the V67G it?
It ain't bad, but, I modded mine anyway.
Shrillness, tizzyness, isn't a substitute for open top end, but, it might suit something you're doing. Who knows till you try it.

[awakened]

Originally Posted by memphisindie

Is the V67G it?

sure is a good starter mic. would have loved to have had it in the beginning.

its actually one you can hold onto into later years, whether you mod it or not. i was suggesting the v69 to the OP bc i thought he may have some meh preamps.

its also a tube mic, as opposed to a toob mic. dfegad

[craven]

this ok with my pre-amps? i looked at the website and it showed most pros in the industry use this mic....


Brand New CAD Trion 8000 Tube Condenser Mic Mircrophone - eBay (item 250394522061 end time Apr-21-09 20:01:12 PDT)

[craven]

are any of these good? if so which is the best? and are these better the the m-audio octane pre-amp? cause i have the octane.....


PRESONUS BLUETUBE DP2 PRO 2 CHANNEL TUBE MIC PREAMP DP - eBay (item 220381439750 end time Apr-19-09 10:54:22 PDT)

ART MPA Gold 2 Channel Tube Mic Pre Amp NEW FREE SHIP - eBay (item 170310437912 end time Apr-10-09 13:28:36 PDT)

PRESONUS STUDIO CHANNEL TUBE RECORDING MIC PREAMP STRIP - eBay (item 220379916564 end time Apr-16-09 17:30:17 PDT)

NEW ART TPS II Tube Mic Instrument Preamp System $0SHIP - eBay (item 350183588854 end time Apr-02-09 18:29:06 PDT)

[awakened]

Originally Posted by craven

this ok with my pre-amps? i looked at the website and it showed most pros in the industry use this mic....


Brand New CAD Trion 8000 Tube Condenser Mic Mircrophone - eBay (item 250394522061 end time Apr-21-09 20:01:12 PDT)

not sure about pros using that mic...haha...it resembles a mic that some pros use (cough...blue...cough)

but for the same price, i'd get the v69 and buy a couple of flavorful tubes.

[awakened]

Originally Posted by craven

are any of these good? if so which is the best? and are these better the the m-audio octane pre-amp? cause i have the octane.....


PRESONUS BLUETUBE DP2 PRO 2 CHANNEL TUBE MIC PREAMP DP - eBay (item 220381439750 end time Apr-19-09 10:54:22 PDT)

ART MPA Gold 2 Channel Tube Mic Pre Amp NEW FREE SHIP - eBay (item 170310437912 end time Apr-10-09 13:28:36 PDT)

PRESONUS STUDIO CHANNEL TUBE RECORDING MIC PREAMP STRIP - eBay (item 220379916564 end time Apr-16-09 17:30:17 PDT)

NEW ART TPS II Tube Mic Instrument Preamp System $0SHIP - eBay (item 350183588854 end time Apr-02-09 18:29:06 PDT)

the mpa gold is pretty slick with a tube change. don't feel like you need to limit yourself to tube pres. as i said, tube is not better, just different. the true p-solo is probably the lowest-end (is that a word?) pre i would use for serious vocal production, and you can find them used for $350. not that you need a solid pre, just trying to help you future-proof yourself. its what i did when i started out. i just didn't want to feel bottle-necked.

so help you God, stay away from that presonus bluetube. haha.

[craven]

should i just cough up some cash and do these? i found the cad for 225!

Buy Audio-Technica AT4040 Large-Diaphragm Studio Condenser Mic | Condenser Microphones | Musician's Friend

Buy Blue Bluebird Large Diaphragm Cardioid Condenser Microphone | Condenser Microphones | Musician's Friend

Buy CAD M9 Tube Large Diaphragm Microphone | Condenser Microphones | Musician's Friend

[awakened]

Originally Posted by craven

should i just cough up some cash and do these? i found the cad for 225!

Buy Audio-Technica AT4040 Large-Diaphragm Studio Condenser Mic | Condenser Microphones | Musician's Friend

Buy Blue Bluebird Large Diaphragm Cardioid Condenser Microphone | Condenser Microphones | Musician's Friend

Buy CAD M9 Tube Large Diaphragm Microphone | Condenser Microphones | Musician's Friend

you're comparing apples to oranges. every one of these mics is useful for something. if you want to get a good starter LDC, get one of the MXLs. it really depends on what you're doing. if you are getting the vocal mic to record yourself, go to GC and try some out. who knows, you might find one thats flattering on you and not even care about the price. if you are doing this as a project studio and recording other bands, i would suggest getting a shure sm7. that mic just sounds pleasing on everything, and is an awesome vocal mic. its also dynamic, so you wont have to go all out on room treatment.

[awakened]

Originally Posted by craven

i am looking for a really warmish/dark sound....with less top end and more low-mids.....

cast your vote, and your thoughts!

sm7 all the way here. others will agree. its a great mic that, as i said, you can use on anything.

[craven]

went to the local music store, to find a mic.....these 2 i tested, i am testing 2 more tomorrow.....

the first is the RODE NT1-A link below....it sounded very CLEAN no spike in highs has a nice flow to it and has some low end but not quite enough, but it can be eq'd.....the response was almost completely flat...which is good for overall vocals....check out the reviews in the link....

Buy Rode Microphones NT1-A Anniversary Model Microphone | Condenser Microphones | Musician's Friend


the next test was a CAD m9...vacuum tube....its got that sound almost like your ears are in love LOL really really, WARM!! i mean lows and mids, i loved it....not as crisp as the rode tho.....

Buy CAD M9 Tube Large Diaphragm Microphone | Condenser Microphones | Musician's Friend





tomorrow i am testing the CAD trion 6000, and the mxl v67i......let me know what you guys think!

[awakened]

Originally Posted by craven

the first is the RODE NTK link below....it sounded very CLEAN no spike in highs has a nice flow to it and has some low end but not quite enough, but it can be eq'd.....the response was almost completely flat...which is good for overall vocals....check out the reviews in the link....

the ntk is not bad at all. we used it on a project here at the studio. it wasn't flattering...but it wasn't awful. haven't heard it with a tube change

although, we picked up a Sterling ST66 recently and were blown away (at that price). it killed the NTK w/ the stock tube in it.

[craven]

Originally Posted by awakened

the ntk is not bad at all. we used it on a project here at the studio. it wasn't flattering...but it wasn't awful. haven't heard it with a tube change

although, we picked up a Sterling ST66 recently and were blown away (at that price). it killed the NTK w/ the stock tube in it.

this is the rode mic that i tested, its the NT1-A

sounded pretty good....

Buy Rode Microphones NT1-A Anniversary Model Microphone | Condenser Microphones | Musician's Friend

[Empty Planet]

Originally Posted by memphisindie

Due to the circuit designs of tube mics and all tube amplification, the tube design even the el-cheapo and shit mics will have a more open top than a given solid state mic, and will handle compression better than a solid state mic....

You're saying that the V69 has a more open top end than a U87?

I'm sorry, but with all due respect, the idea that an FET design is either more or less likely than a tube design to collapse under compression is nonsense, or let's just say misinformation at best. Quality of design and implementation and materials are the issue in performance, whether that's compression or eq or what have you, not whether a circuit has a tube stage, and there are great and shoddy examples of this on both sides of the FET/tube aisle.

But perhaps we can get JJ Blair to put in a more authoritative comment on the subject.

I have little desire to be "right" in this sort of discussion, but the idea that people are reading that and thinking it true is just, IMHO, a disservice.

[memphisindie]

Originally Posted by Empty Planet

You're saying that the V69 has a more open top end than a U87?

Well, there's a hell of a difference from the mics we're talking about in the range we're talking about HERE and a U87. We're talking about a V69ME and a V67G, both Marshall brand. We aren't in the same ball field or even the same city as Neuman. However, it would depend on which U87. I auditioned a U87 with my partner and we both hands down gave the open top end award to the STOCK V67G. The 87 may have been damaged or dirty or whatever, I'm in Memphis after all, but, still the results were glaringly obvious to anyone.

I'm sorry, but with all due respect, the idea that an FET design is either more or less likely than a tube design to collapse under compression is nonsense, or let's just say misinformation at best. Quality of design and implementation and materials are the issue in performance, whether that's compression or eq or what have you, not whether a circuit has a tube stage, and there are great and shoddy examples of this on both sides of the FET/tube aisle.

But perhaps we can get JJ Blair to put in a more authoritative comment on the subject.

I have little desire to be "right" in this sort of discussion, but the idea that people are reading that and thinking it true is just, IMHO, a disservice.

Also, I didn't say that an FET design collapses at all, that is disinformation, it just becomes more boxy, because usually they deliver the mids and upper bass a bit more forward than a tube design. That's my experience. Even with U87's.
I'm not saying tube mics have no mids or bass either, they just have a more open top end.
I am aware that there are exceptions and gear can be made to do anything, but, there is no sense in arguing that particular circuit designs don't exhibit particular characteristics. They do.
Transformer balanced mics have a set, transformerless have another, condensers have one dynamics and ribbons have their's, ther can be counteracting electronics employed to change or counte a characteristic, there can be mix and match designs, there can be great electronics and there can be "el-cheapo" electronics which is what we are talking about in his thread.
In my memory, my stock V67G was tinny and harsh, people don't like to hear that but that's how I remember it. If you have a transformer on the V69 that sucks I bet the top would suck, but, I haven't experienced that.

[Empty Planet]

True, I misquoted you with the "collapses" bit -- apologies for that.

Now I'm completely down with you on your argument as you rephrased it. When someone says "in my experience" then it's a much different ballgame to me than saying "all of X designs do this and all of Y designs to that, end of story" as if it were empirical fact. I don't think we agree on that minor point particularly, but who cares, and it's an interesting theory at any rate.

And hey, Memphis is a cool town. Some of my favorite music ever came outta that place.


Cheers.

[craven]

right now my choice is CAD m9, v67G, rode NT-1

so heres what i did...

i just found a used v67G for 63 bucks......and i found a NEW rode NT-1 for 175.....so for 220 i am gonna pick them up.....and ditch the v63m.....

good plan?

[memphisindie]

Originally Posted by Empty Planet

True, I misquoted you with the "collapses" bit -- apologies for that.

Now I'm completely down with you on your argument as you rephrased it. When someone says "in my experience" then it's a much different ballgame to me than saying "all of X designs do this and all of Y designs to that, end of story" as if it were empirical fact. I don't think we agree on that minor point particularly, but who cares, and it's an interesting theory at any rate.

And hey, Memphis is a cool town. Some of my favorite music ever came outta that place.

Cheers.

Memphis has too much good music stuck in it. Needs airing out.

It's not a fact, it's a first hand observation, which is only a "personal fact" but not universally accepted.

FYI: not picking a fight but this term gets misused a lot.
empirical |ɛmˌpɪrɪk(ə)l| |ɪm-|
adjective
based on, concerned with, or verifiable by observation or experience rather than theory or pure logic :
empirical
adjective
many of these predictions have received empirical comfirmation experiential, practical, heuristic, firsthand, hands-on; observed, evidence-based, seen, demonstrable. antonym theoretical.
Just so ya know.

[Empty Planet]

I am well familiar with the word "empirical," and used it consciously. (No offense taken, btw.) In other words, your experience is not at all mine, nor of anyone with whom I've had discussions of the topic -- though I recognize I haven't discussed it with a majority of the Universe's audio engineers. Your proposition is not, from the definition you quoted, "verifiable" or "demonstrable" to others by any reasonable scientific standard. Thus it is not an empirical fact in the usual meaning of the word, it is your opinion.

Which, of course, is fine.


Cheers.




PS. Apologies to the OP for the derail. I'm not familiar with the NT mic, but I've used both the V67 and the 69. Though the 69 is fun, it's a little on the 2D side, a bit flat, with this odd fuzz on top. A bit more trouble than it's worth, though it's a fun first tube mic. I might find the 67 more useful if I had to choose between the two. In fact, I used the V67 on a particular voiceover thing where the talent had lots of mouth noise issues -- the lack of detail masked the issue rather effectively. It also has a nice proximity effect that can be useful. Hope that helps.