SSL X-Desk

[AudioWarehouse]

Originally Posted by AnonJack

Actually, I just realized...there would be no point in doing that without external pre amps, correct? There is no ch strip, so I would need to track it through 8 external pres/eqs/comps for that to even make sense.

So this is more for the guy who already has a collection of boutique pres, eqs, and comps. Am I understanding all of this?

Indeed you are ... if a couple of days late.

[jamwerks]

Originally Posted by AudioWarehouse

The X-Desk will stand up to all scrutiny by itself ....

The proof will be in the poudding (is that spelled correctly?). Anyway I don't think SSL would be so foolish as to put out anything less than a great sounding product. But then again Neve pretty much did that with a simular product. It will be interesting to see (hear) if this thing measures up to summing 16 channels on an X-Rack with 2 x 4 input & 1 x 8 input modules.

[AudioWarehouse]

Originally Posted by jamwerks

The proof will be in the poudding (is that spelled correctly?). Anyway I don't think SSL would be so foolish as to put out anything less than a great sounding product. But then again Neve pretty much did that with a simular product. It will be interesting to see (hear) if this thing measures up to summing 16 channels on an X-Rack with 2 x 4 input & 1 x 8 input modules.

Seeing as you asked 'pudding' and seeing as we're on the subject 'similar' ...thumbsup

Good idea on the A/B

[AnonJack]

Originally Posted by AudioWarehouse

Indeed you are ... if a couple of days late.

apologies!

[AudioWarehouse]

Originally Posted by AnonJack

apologies!

Only joking!

[Brad McGowan]

Branding counts for a LOT...in every industry. And I applaud SSL's ability to leverage their brand to expand their company into new segments of the market. That's good business! If they had public stock for sale I'd consider buying it.

However if you don't care about what brands' names exist on your clothing labels, or audio mixers then you can actually find some gems for better prices.

Benmrx asked: "Do you really want to mix OTB with all your killer outboard (SSL, Neve, API, etc.) only to finally end up on a Mackie?" My personal answer would be: if it has all the functionality that addresses my workflow and passes signal in a manner that doesn't degrade or color the signal in a way that I don't like, then yes. I actually would set my brand name biases aside and get the two products side by side and do some tests to see which meets my requirements. Then I would weigh the performance of each against my cost requirements. It's a very pragmatic way of doing things I know.

There's actually no reason why a company like Mackie or Soundcraft or A&H couldn't manufacture a product that sounds just as good as an SSL X-Desk. Maybe they already have, but nobody will ever know because folks who would consider buying products from those companies haven't been the same folks that have been historically buying SSL and therefore the comparisons haven't been made. But now that SSL is coming to play in the kiddie sandbox, that could all change. Interesting times ahead of us....

Brad

[AnonJack]

Originally Posted by AudioWarehouse

Indeed you are ... if a couple of days late.

for the price though, even for a guy like me who does not have at least 8 high-end eqs, comps, and pres...for the price, this is still a great summing and monitor solution though. am i right? bc the other summing/monitor boxes are all around the same price.\

i guess im just finding a reason i can buy one of this, lol. =]

[Brad McGowan]

Originally Posted by Benmrx

That's my understanding.

My understanding is that it's basically a small mixer that sounds acceptable for pro use (SSL version of the Mackie 1202?). Simple circuits with decent components actually sounds good. What a concept.

Brad

[AudioWarehouse]

Originally Posted by Brad McGowan

There's actually no reason why a company like Mackie or Soundcraft or A&H couldn't manufacture a product that sounds just as good as an SSL X-Desk.

Absolutely true ... in fact it would be better for us all, companies included, if that were the case.

I recall an article Stephen St.Croix wrote for Mix magazine on buying gear which struck a chord.

He suggested, as I recall, there are 3 ways to buy gear -


1. Buy the best - pretty simple as in most industries The Best is a small selection.
It performs and lasts the best. It costs what it cost but as a per annum cost across it's life it may well be 'cheaper' than option 2 or 3.

2 - Go for the minimum. I need a mic , a $25 dollar mic will do. Fine and simple if that's what you want to do.

3. The oh so complicated third way. Spend your life comparing, A/B ing, searching for the best bang for buck this week only for it to change next. Reading spec sheets and Gawd Forbid, posting on Fora. Chasing clouds and waiting for a Horse that will never win the race..... and it still being as good as Number 1.


Stick me down as a Number 1, yea?

[Brad McGowan]

Originally Posted by AnonJack

for the price though, even for a guy like me who does not have at least 8 high-end eqs, comps, and pres...for the price, this is still a great summing and monitor solution though. am i right? bc the other summing/monitor boxes are all around the same price.\

i guess im just finding a reason i can buy one of this, lol. =]

The question to ask yourself is: do you need a summing and monitoring solution? If so then perhaps the answer is yes. But maybe you really need a Hearback system to interface with your DAW because you are trying to track live rock bands and you are sick of creating headphone mixes on two aux sends. Or maybe you need a 16-channel Toft ATB because you work best mixing through EQ's that are part of the console.

Brad

[jamwerks]

Originally Posted by Brad McGowan

There's actually no reason why a company like Mackie or Soundcraft or A&H couldn't manufacture a product that sounds just as good as an SSL X-Desk.

Thats true but could they make money at it? Mackie for one would have no reason as they seem to make oouddles (did I spell that correctly?) on lower end mixers that cost about 1/3 of this x-desk per channel), and are built for live sound in schools and churches.

[AudioWarehouse]

Originally Posted by jamwerks

(did I spell that correctly?)

No!

[AudioWarehouse]

Originally Posted by Brad McGowan

What a concept.

Brad

It's no longer a concept .... it ships the week after next.

[staudio]

Is the I/O on DB25's or a mix of XLR and TRS?

[Brad McGowan]

Originally Posted by AudioWarehouse

He suggested, as I recall, there are 3 ways to buy gear -


1. Buy the best - pretty simple as in most industries The Best is a small selection.
It works and lasts the best.

2 - Go for the minimum. I need a mic , a $25 dollar mic will do. Fine and simple if that's what you want to do.

3. Spend your life comparing, A/B ing, searching for the best bang for buck this week only for it to change next. Reading spec sheets and Gawd Forbid, posting on Fora. Chasing clouds and waiting for a Horse that will never win the race.

Or number 4 which is what systems engineers do when they are architecting a complicated system (not audio engineer, but traditional engineer):

Evaluate the pros and cons of the existing system to better understand how it did and did not address user needs. Make a list of requirements based on historical and projected usage. Make a list of desirements as well. Requirements are must haves and desirements are things that would be nice. Determine a budget to constrain the purchase. Then do a survey of potential candidate products that may meet requirements. For each alternative determine whether or not the product meets the requirements and desirements. This can be done through first-hand trials, research, or by evaluting spec/data sheets. For example "mixer shall have 2 line inputs on each channel". That's an easy one to verify by looking at a data sheet or calling the manufacturer. Any candidate that doesn't meet ALL requirements should be elminated. From the remaining candidates select the products that meet the most number of desirements and cost and audition those first hand. Then make a decision based on empirical data (subjective impressions really) and cost.

It all starts with requirements. You only A/B products that meet requirements and fit within the cost profile. Then you make a choice.

Brad

[AudioWarehouse]

Originally Posted by staudio

Is the I/O on DB25's or a mix of XLR and TRS?

Mostly DB25s

[AudioWarehouse]

Originally Posted by Brad McGowan

Or number 4 which is what systems engineers do when they are architecting a complicated system (not audio engineer, but traditional engineer):

Evaluate the pros and cons of the existing system to better understand how it did and did not address user needs. Make a list of requirements based on historical and projected usage. Make a list of desirements as well. Requirements are must haves and desirements are things that would be nice. Determine a budget to constrain the purchase. Then do a survey of potential candidate products that may meet requirements. For each alternative determine whether or not the product meets the requirements and desirements. This can be done through first-hand trials, research, or by evaluting spec/data sheets. For example "mixer shall have 2 line inputs on each channel". That's an easy one to verify by looking at a data sheet or calling the manufacturer. Any candidate that doesn't meet ALL requirements should be elminated. From the remaining candidates select the products that meet the most number of desirements and cost and audition those first hand. Then make a decision based on empirical data (subjective impressions really) and cost.

It all starts with requirements. You only A/B products that meet requirements and fit within the cost profile. Then you make a choice.

Brad

Yawn ...

Stephen said 3 - that's enough for me.

Your 4 fits into Steve's 3.

[Coyoteous]

Originally Posted by Brad McGowan

Yeah I don't think so either. It seems like a lot of folks think that SSL has a magic sound just because big name mixers use their consoles. The real magic in SSL has always been routing flexibility right? This product seems pretty stripped down and feature limited to really be the centerpiece of a studio that tracks/mixes live acoustic music IMHO.

Sure, the SSL name has cachet among many... though not just for routing. And yes, I would be interested in the X-Desk from any company, but I would be more suspect of the design and build quality from a lesser manufacturer.

Originally Posted by Brad McGowan

Doesn't the Mackie Onyx series have a competitive feature list? It's all in the name I guess...

I have an Onyx 1220 and an SSL Summing Bundle. The latter has much higher sound and build quality than the former, though the 1220 is a great deal for the money. If you'll look, the feature sets differs considerably, IMO... and SuperAnalogue is more than just a front panel catch-phrase.

Originally Posted by Brad McGowan

I'm still waiting for a console with ground-breaking, innovative features, at a ground-breaking price point.

Brad

That would be great. You came off yesterday as though you knew of one... what happened? Oh, and you can certainly do more with the X-Desk than "track/mix live acoustic music." Line inputs and outputs don't much care about genre, etc. If this product doesn't have enough sends/inserts/channels, look elsewhere instead of bashing its manufacturer and their customers.

[Brad McGowan]

I hope that I'm not coming off as bashing this product or its customers. Like I said I think that SSL is making really smart business moves and I welcome more of this kind of product into the marketplace. I wish that companies that have been considered mid-level would develop products that are sonically on par with SSL, Neve, API, etc. There are representatives of those companies that likely read these threads and if they got the word that the consumer public wanted to see them raise their bar and offer something similar, well then perhaps they might actually act on it.

I do know of something in the works, but I'm not at liberty to say by who or what. It may have some competitive features and it may be missing some of the features discussed in this thread. But my bigger point was that I think that we'll see a lot of smaller high quality mixers over the next year and some of them may give this thing a run for the money. Which is a great thing. The more options there are then then better the prices will get for consumers. I have no vested interested in any one product.

Although I'm not personally in the market for a mixer like this I still am entitled to discuss the merits or lack thereof of new products. I think I make some valid points, even if not considered popular by the majority. If anything I'm expressing surprise at the level of interest for a product that I personally think is feature limited in some regards. People around here always seem to want more more more.

Thanks for the discussion.

Brad

[Kenny Gioia]

Wow!!!!

What a smart product.

For about $2300.00 Assuming street price will be about $1999.00 you'll sell a ton of these.

Great for the Analog guy resisting ITB workflow.

Not sure it's for me but it's pretty damn close.

They did the smart thing by leaving off the mic preamps and EQs to keep the price down.

You can always add the rack stuff if you want. Personally I can pass on anything from SSL besides the summing, control room and buss compressor.

A 16 (32) channel unit will be tough to pass on.

My only complaint is that they didn't include some sort of snapshot automation. Not talking about moving faders or anything.

[AudioWarehouse]

Originally Posted by Kenny Gioia

My only complaint is that they didn't include snapshot automation.

That would have been nice ok ..... but not realistic for this price.

They fought hard to get this price point.

There were things like reducing the size of the circuit board by 8 mm ( I think it was) which allowed them to get 2 X-desks out of 1 standard piece of raw circuit board and I believe, sourcing different knob tops that were cheaper .... all stuff that doesn't impact the sound but reduces the end cost.

[Kenny Gioia]

Originally Posted by Brad McGowan

But my bigger point was that I think that we'll see a lot of smaller high quality mixers over the next year and some of them may give this thing a run for the money. Which is a great thing. The more options there are then then better the prices will get for consumers. I have no vested interested in any one product.

This may be true but who can compete with the SSL name for a mixing console?

The toft console is certainly in the discussion but what about the summing?

Even if Rupert Neve or AMS made one, I'm not sure that they own the mixing market the way SSL does.

So every other company would have to be cheaper to compete. No?

Assuming this actually sounds good, who wouldn't want to mix on an SSL?

[Kenny Gioia]

Originally Posted by AudioWarehouse

That would have been nice ok ..... but not realistic for this price.

They fought hard to get this price point.

I totally agree. It's just hard to think about breaking out paper templates again.

Although, I'm sure you could recall this thing in a few minutes.

Some sort of test tone recall would be cool.

[Benmrx]

Originally Posted by Kenny Gioia

A 16 (32) channel unit will be tough to pass on.

My only complaint is that they didn't include some sort of snapshot automation. Not talking about moving faders or anything.

+1, although I bet if that was added, it would blow the price point up by enough to put it out of my budget.

Don't forget these are "cascadable". I wonder how many be connected. At this price point, I could see eventually having 3 or 4 in a desk sort of like this one. Imagine a couple 500 series racks in there.

Also, don't forget that this thing gives you a max of 22 inputs at mixdown.

[AudioWarehouse]

Originally Posted by Benmrx

I wonder how many be connected.

D-Sub connections - I don't recall how many may be linked - I guess ... erm .... 25

[Benmrx]

Originally Posted by AudioWarehouse

D-Sub ...

I know they connect by D-Sub, but how many can be "cascaded"? If the answer is "only 2" can be cascaded then I'm a little less stoked.


EDIT: This thread is moving too fast for my typing skills!

[Benmrx]

Originally Posted by Kenny Gioia

I totally agree. It's just hard to think about breaking out paper templates again.

I hear ya, but I'll go there if it means me actually owning a 32 channel (60 input) Mini-SSL that won't require an in-house tech!!!!!

[AudioWarehouse]

Originally Posted by Benmrx

I know they connect by D-Sub, but how many can be "cascaded"? If the answer is "only 2" can be cascaded then I'm a little less stoked.


EDIT: This thread is moving too fast for my typing skills!

No, it's more than that ok

[AudioWarehouse]

Just checked .....

8 desks max recommended .... but more 'may be possible' so let's speculate 10 ....

220 input mixer anyone?

[Benmrx]

Originally Posted by AudioWarehouse

Just checked .....

8 desks max recommended .... but more 'may be possible' so let's speculate 10 ....

220 input mixer anyone?

Still waiting to get more real-world info, but you kind of just sealed the deal for me! We'll see. I think 4 would suite me just fine.