SSL X-Desk

[Svens]

Originally Posted by konkaos

SSL should at least give you the empty X-rack for free if you fill it up with modules. The price for that empty box is way too much.

I Just bought one. I agree its a lot of money, but the total recall is really something else...wont find that on any other lunchbox/module from another brand. Thats where the money is anyway....

[TheMarqueeYears]

Sorry to be dumb!

But the point of this product (other than a daft trend) just totally passes me by - what exactly are you supposed to do with the 8 faders?

Set them to zero and mix in your DAW ! Duh.

Or stem out your mix and really get into the vibe of mixing on a "baby SSL" with your 8 faders without automation - whoopee, endless minutes of fun!

Summing into a hardware compressor and maybe EQ on the stereo bus, I get and do myself (through a HEDD192) but .....

Nope I just don't see the point on an X - desk, please enlighten me, and don't try to convince me 8 channels of ananlog summing is better than just the stereo bus because I've proven to myself you get the same effect just summing the two bus (= observed by Bob Katz and many others by the way)

The point of the X desk is .... ?

Thanks
TMY

[Tom H]

Originally Posted by TheMarqueeYears

The point of the X desk is .... ?

(sub) group processing for example.

[Coyoteous]

Originally Posted by Brad McGowan

Nope I really can't.

It's not too hard to see that people are getting back into consoles. There is a revival afoot. So if you are not in a rush just wait to see what happens.

I'm sure this new X-Desk will sell like hotcakes...it looks really purty. It will be in all those studios that have U87's, Avalons, and Digi002's.

Brad

I can, if this vaporware is what you are referring to:

No console, no Summer - whats next?

- in which you recently wrote:

Originally Posted by Brad McGowan

Hey Tim,

How's this project coming along? It seems that folks all falling all over themselves regarding the news about the new SSL X-Desk mixer. I can't help but think that what we have conceptualized in this thread would kill that thing both in terms of functionality and sonics.

Brad

"Falling all over themselves?" - sheesh!

- not to mention this innuendo from above:

I'm sure this new X-Desk will sell like hotcakes...it looks really purty. It will be in all those studios that have U87's, Avalons, and Digi002's.

I mean really, there's no need to get nasty here...

- back to the competition... maybe you and Jim W. have something coming out, too?

[TonyBelmont]

Originally Posted by jamwerks

Do you mean that is has the same transistors and op amp in the signal path as the Duality? That would be almost too good to be true !

It uses the same SuperAnalogue circuitry as the other SSL desks (Matrix, etc).

Originally Posted by TheMarqueeYears

Sorry to be dumb!

But the point of this product (other than a daft trend) just totally passes me by - what exactly are you supposed to do with the 8 faders?

Set them to zero and mix in your DAW ! Duh.

Or stem out your mix and really get into the vibe of mixing on a "baby SSL" with your 8 faders without automation - whoopee, endless minutes of fun!

Summing into a hardware compressor and maybe EQ on the stereo bus, I get and do myself (through a HEDD192) but .....

Nope I just don't see the point on an X - desk, please enlighten me, and don't try to convince me 8 channels of ananlog summing is better than just the stereo bus because I've proven to myself you get the same effect just summing the two bus (= observed by Bob Katz and many others by the way)

The point of the X desk is .... ?

Thanks
TMY

Well, if you look at it as a "summing box", you are missing the point... This fits what most people here on GS need in a mixer. It is an 8 channel mixer with dual inputs, inserts, effects sends & returns, monitor control, made in the UK, etc. If you can't find a use for it, then I can understand. But, some people (including myself) prefer to have a console for tracking and mixing (especially when trying to interface analog outboard gear). A pair of these is a nice solution.

I'll be buying a pair of these for my own setup.

[paul101]

Originally Posted by TheMarqueeYears

Sorry to be dumb!

But the point of this product (other than a daft trend) just totally passes me by - what exactly are you supposed to do with the 8 faders?

Set them to zero and mix in your DAW ! Duh.

Or stem out your mix and really get into the vibe of mixing on a "baby SSL" with your 8 faders without automation - whoopee, endless minutes of fun!

Summing into a hardware compressor and maybe EQ on the stereo bus, I get and do myself (through a HEDD192) but .....

Nope I just don't see the point on an X - desk, please enlighten me, and don't try to convince me 8 channels of ananlog summing is better than just the stereo bus because I've proven to myself you get the same effect just summing the two bus (= observed by Bob Katz and many others by the way)

The point of the X desk is .... ?

Thanks
TMY

I must agree that this seems a little too scaled down to be of use.
I like its usability in a tracking setup, but with only 8 inputs?? 16 channels would have seemed a more sensible starting point.

To be honest both the X-desk and the Audient Zen have just confirmed to me that I either should buy a "real" console, or stay entirely in the box.

[work2do]

Originally Posted by TonyBelmont

It uses the same SuperAnalogue circuitry as the other SSL desks (Matrix, etc).


Well, if you look at it as a "summing box", you are missing the point... This fits what most people here on GS need in a mixer. It is an 8 channel mixer with dual inputs, inserts, effects sends & returns, monitor control, made in the UK, etc. If you can't find a use for it, then I can understand. But, some people (including myself) prefer to have a console for tracking and mixing (especially when trying to interface analog outboard gear). A pair of these is a nice solution.

thumbsup

[TonyBelmont]

Originally Posted by paul101

I must agree that this seems a little too scaled down to be of use.
I like its usability in a tracking setup, but with only 8 inputs?? 16 channels would have seemed a more sensible starting point.

To be honest both the X-desk and the Audient Zen have just confirmed to me that I either should buy a "real" console, or stay entirely in the box.

The X-Desk is cascade-able... You link them together for more inputs (which I think is what most people will do).

Originally Posted by konkaos

thumbsup

[TRW]

If you cascade two of them, is all that user real estate, comms talkback and buss control redundant on the second one?

Seems like an expander with 12 channels would be better...

-T

[Stiff]

Jim, I'll drop by and have a look at it. Hopefully you'll be there and demo it. I won't talk to anyone else after last year

[AudioWarehouse]

Originally Posted by TheMarqueeYears

Sorry to be dumb!

But the point of this product (other than a daft trend) just totally passes me by - what exactly are you supposed to do with the 8 faders?

Set them to zero and mix in your DAW ! Duh.


The point of the X desk is .... ?

Thanks
TMY

There's more to it than the obvious Faders.

I think with the 8 faders you have many options and the 'straight line' fader option is certainly one of them!

An example I personally have is a lot of my clients would have some choice outboard gear, maybe an 1176, a Distressor, a Manley Vari Mu, an SSL Bus Comp and a Bricasti M7 or similar.

With an X-Desk all can be integrated into a mix (and more), coupled with Fader adjustment if you chose to use it. (Don't forget the fader to tape option too!)


One of the comments we as dealers had when we were introduced to the X-Rack was
" Pity it doesn't have a whole 'Centre Section' option".

That wasn't really an possibility in the confined rack format of the X-Rack. So, a client still needs a unit for cue system, talkback etc.

Any High Quality 'Centre Section' costs a Grand and the rest I think you'd agree.

However, it is built into the X-Desk. 2 monitor controls , Talback etc. Cut/Dim ... exactly as you'd use on a big console.

So now, as well as being a summing Mix tool doing a job similar to 16 chans of summing (utilizing both inputs per chan, 8 on faders - more if you include Aux Returns), it also is a tracking tool with auxs for headphones and aforementioned talkback etc.

It is, of course, a scaled back unit, but not on sonic quality.

The main area it's scaled back on is price.

Don't forget the expandability options as a last cherry on the cake.

[AudioWarehouse]

Originally Posted by paul101

16 channels would have seemed a more sensible starting point.

.

And so it can be .... Buy 2!

[Coyoteous]

Originally Posted by Stiff

Jim, I'll drop by and have a look at it. Hopefully you'll be there and demo it. I won't talk to anyone else after last year

What happened?

- snubbed like this?

Originally Posted by Brad McGowan

I went to the SSL booth hoping to get a demo of the Matrix. I stood there for a couple minutes waiting for an SSL rep to help me. Sadly, nobody paid any attention or seemed to care that I was even there waiting. So I left.

Lame.

Brad

here, perhaps?

Seriously now, I think the X-Desk will be a nice product - probably not for everyone, but what is? And you'll never please a hater.

I'd like to have the X-Desk, but I've already started down the X-Rack summing road, and when I break it down, that better suits my needs... except for sends, which is the tradeoff here. If I need sends, I can go out to another mixer and that's fine.

- still may get one though, just to be cool... after the U87, Avalon, and Digi002, of course!

In closing, here is one of my most favorite Plush quotes... not that I really agree with it, but it is funny:

Originally Posted by Plush

You complainers are dicks.

You want the SSL sound but you won't pay for it. So you complain.

You're pitiful.

I think the concept and the modules are a great idea.
I will implement a 4 channel line in module with a 2 buss output module.

Now that should kick butt.

[AudioWarehouse]

Originally Posted by TRW

If you cascade two of them, is all that user real estate, comms talkback and buss control redundant on the second one?

Seems like an expander with 12 channels would be better...

-T

The second 'centre section' then becomes a storage area for cigarettes, iPhone, Pencils etc.

Those SSL guys think of everything .....


But seriously, I do think an expander unit, maybe 12, maybe 16, is a good idea seeing as the interconnectivity is an 'open ended' D-Sub.

However I've seen or heard nothing of this or similar mentioned at the factory.

[AudioWarehouse]

Originally Posted by paul101

To be honest both the X-desk and the Audient Zen have just confirmed to me that I either should buy a "real" console, or stay entirely in the box.

I disagree unless money isn't an issue.

We represent Audient in Ireland too.

These products and the ideas they represent, reflect the real world, certainly in Ireland.

Most of my guys here have a PTools or Apogee Symphony rig with Apogee or SSL converters.

Some are using X-Rack for summing, some Sumo, a few ITB.

A few have SSL or Audient consoles including colleges.

Most would have a few choice bits of outboard gear inc Mic pres.

The X-Rack, Matrix, X-Desk and Zen represent the integration or 'pulling together' of all those strands.

So too does a regular console you say? - well yes, but with repetition in functions that costs you in these difficult times.

Why pay for 24 mic pres on your console that you may not use ? - use that money more wisely somewhere else.

Similarly with EQ, you have it in your DAW, why pay for it again in your console if you're on a budget ?

These new consoles represent stretching your bang for buck whilst maintaining audio quality.

[Svens]

Originally Posted by paul101

I must agree that this seems a little too scaled down to be of use.
I like its usability in a tracking setup, but with only 8 inputs?? 16 channels would have seemed a more sensible starting point.
.

You have 20 inputs, 2 on each channel, each 2 inputs on every channel can be routed to the mixbuss, just like on a Matrix is what I think....+ 2 stereo aux returns.

[AudioWarehouse]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stiff
Jim, I'll drop by and have a look at it. Hopefully you'll be there and demo it. I won't talk to anyone else after last year
What happened?

- snubbed like this?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brad McGowan
I went to the SSL booth hoping to get a demo of the Matrix. I stood there for a couple minutes waiting for an SSL rep to help me. Sadly, nobody paid any attention or seemed to care that I was even there waiting. So I left.

Lame.

Brad

Lads - my advice is when you get on the plane leave the egos at home.

The Knights of SSL treat every man with respect.

Jim, Damien and Richard (the new kid) will be running flat out like lizards all Frankfurt MusikMesse.

Give them, and all the other reps a bit of leeway, they need water and sleep like the rest of us.


If you can't wait a few minutes you're not REALLY interested are you?

[TonyBelmont]

I just bought one for myself, and will probably get a second one at a later date.

We are also taking pre-orders as of today. X-Desk

The following just sealed it for me:

The cue send can be used as an additional input (assignable to either the tape return or the main I/P) and has a PAN on it (therefore you have gain and pan for an additional 8 channels).

So, this becomes a 16 channel console if you are only using it at mixdown.

[SoundEng1]

Originally Posted by AudioWarehouse

(Don't forget the fader to tape option too!)

Once Again, does this thing have a master Fader and Insert?

[TonyBelmont]

Originally Posted by SoundEng1

Once Again, does this thing have a master Fader and Insert?

Yes.

[AudioWarehouse]

Originally Posted by SoundEng1

Once Again, does this thing have a master Fader and Insert?

Of course! A rotary fader.

[paul101]

Originally Posted by Svens

You have 20 inputs, 2 on each channel, each 2 inputs on every channel can be routed to the mixbuss, just like on a Matrix is what I think....+ 2 stereo aux returns.

Sorry, I phrased this incorrectly. I was referring to inputs at the tracking stage. Only eight?
So lets say I want to record drums, and give a cue mix to the drummer. Not enough inputs.

For those recording one thing at a time, this seems like overkill, but for any multitrack work it wont deliver without expansion. Realistically you have to buy two to make it practical, making it a four grand summing mixer.

[AudioWarehouse]

Originally Posted by paul101

Sorry, I phrased this incorrectly. I was referring to inputs at the tracking stage. Only eight?
So lets say I want to record drums, and give a cue mix to the drummer. Not enough inputs.

Well you could route your daw mix into an Aux return and use the 8 chans for recording.

The console by its design is a compromise, but not on quality ...

[TEMAS]

Originally Posted by TheMarqueeYears

Or stem out your mix and really get into the vibe of mixing on a "baby SSL" with your 8 faders without automation - whoopee, endless minutes of fun!

I just got home from the pub and that made me laugh out loud.

In all honesty, I have no need for faders.

And I'd rather they weren't there and save 3 units rack space.

But this mixer still does more than any other thats currently available for the price.

And its an SSL.

I might hold on and see what Tim at Buzz comes out with before biting the bullet on this.

But, it'll be tough for anyone to compete with the price here though.

[jindrich]

hi again

please read my post above (page 4) where I described the features, functions and basic uses of the new X-Desk. I can sort of confirm now everything I wrote there (though wait till wednesday for more detailed stuff).

I forgot to add that this mixer sports the same bus connector as the XRACK, which means several X-Desks and/or XRACKs can be connected together sharing all common busses. Of course that doesn't mean it's only compatible with SSL stuff, on the contrary, the mixer is designed to integrate with any kind of gear from any manufacturer.


As for what the X-Desk does and what doesn't, don't forget we're talking about a €2k (incl VAT) piece of equipment (designed and built in the UK by SSL, btw). Consider that for this amount you'd usually get just a monitoring controller (of equivalent quality). To offer all the features present in this new SSL mixer at such a price point (again, at this quality level) is quite an achievement IMO as until now products offering the same amount of features (mostly lego-like systems) cost x2,5 to x5 times more.


The X-Desk won't suit everybody, just like an API 1608, a Duality or a Neve 88R won't either. But the X-Desk has many more applications that one can see at first glance, and at this price point I can hardly see anything else that can even touch it.


If you want a description of the X-Desk in a nutshell:

A compact, hi-resolution "Superanalogue" 7U or table-top professional line mixer from SSL, for both tracking and mixing, with 8 fully featured channels (dual input, gain, insert, direct out, st cue, 2FX, pan, solo+cut and 100mm fader) and a comprehensive "big desk" master section, that can also mix up to 22 channels at mix time.

[Solar]

Wooooooooooooooow!! Very happy to see this thread and the new about this new baby SSL X-desk!!

I was just about to buy a Allen & Heath mixer 14 or the 16 or something like that but now seeing this, i think i might wait a bit because it could reaaaaaaally fit my setup!!!

Can't wait to see more screenshots of this!!

[Benmrx]

OK, so....more info is coming on Wednesday right?!?!

Man, I don't come to GS for a day or two and look what happens! If this thing can really get 16 inputs on mixdown, plus aux returns....... and is cascadable........ and is around $2.5K, then (2) of these could be a pretty nice solution for me. There doesn't seem to be any obvious grouping features, which is a bummer..... but maybe there's some kind of "record buss" or something? I guess with direct outs, one could always snag a Folcrum or something as a 3rd party bussing solution.

Definatly going to keep a watchful eye on this thread.

I really, REALLY like the fact that this is a rackmount design and one can easily put together a console frame with their favorite EQ's directly above this "X-Desk" which is HUGE IMO. That's one thing that really bums me out about products like the Audient Zen. Where are you suppose to put your EQ's? I guess in a rack off to the side........which then IMO really hurts the idea of the console being a main "center stage, command station" where most everything should be within reach without having to roll your chair over to the rack.

IMO, great job SSL. Can't wait for more info!

[Benmrx]

Originally Posted by jindrich

If you want a description of the X-Desk in a nutshell:

A compact, hi-resolution "Superanalogue" 7U or table-top professional line mixer from SSL, for both tracking and mixing, with 8 fully featured channels (dual input, gain, insert, direct out, st cue, 2FX, pan, solo+cut and 100mm fader) and a comprehensive "big desk" master section, that can also mix up to 22 channels at mix time.

Now I'm wondering where all those 22 inputs come from, and if you have 2 X-Desks cascaded together, will you actually get 44 inputs? Or will some of those inputs not be available on the "slave" unit, like aux returns maybe?

So stoked for more info!

[AudioWarehouse]

Originally Posted by Benmrx

That's one thing that really bums me out about products like the Audient Zen. Where are you suppose to put your EQ's? I guess in a rack off to the side........which then IMO really hurts the idea of the console being a main "center stage, command station" where most everything should be within reach without having to roll your chair over to the rack.
!

That's a very good point.

[jindrich]

Originally Posted by Benmrx

Now I'm wondering where all those 22 inputs come from, and if you have 2 X-Desks cascaded together, will you actually get 44 inputs? Or will some of those inputs not be available on the "slave" unit, like aux returns maybe?

So stoked for more info!

if you decide to "sacrifice" the st CUE at mix time and use those pan+level knobs as a secondary input, you get 16 (8+8) channels. Add the 2 stereo fx returns (also with pan+level, as well as mono+AFL and routable to CUE) and you get 20chs. Finally add the mix insert point, which can be summed instead, total amount: 22chs

In esence, at mix time, on a single X-Desk:

-8 mono chs with gain, balanced insert point, pre/post direct out (think ext bussing), 2FX sends, pan, cut, solo, 100mm fader
-8 mono chs with pan+level
-2 st channels with pan+level and mono, AFL, to mix and to CUE switches
-st mix insert point that can be turned into a st input to mix