SSL X-Desk

[work2do]

Originally Posted by Veseli

I haven't seen similar question so I'm gonna ask here :
Is it SSL planning to make an X-Rack version without automation ?
That would be great for people who don't need the automation for the modules (more modules fitted) and, of course, much cheaper.

X-Rack doesn't have automation.

[Veseli]

Originally Posted by konkaos

X-Rack doesn't have automation.

I've ment total recall function, sorry. I will edit my post.

[NoEgo]

Originally Posted by carlheinz

Thanks


Do you own one?




I'm hoping to hear from someone who actually owns an x-desk and how they implement it within their setup.

I have been using the XDesk as a sidecar ..Ironically people bought small coloured boards for this along cleaner large consoles before, but I have the ATB32 Channel Toft and had 56 channels Mackie before that. I use all outboard pres mostly now , BA1073, DW Fearn, Vintech, Aurora, Gordon, Forsell, Buzz, Chandler, Manley etc.... ....and I have come to a way of working, where I monitor all tracking with the XDesk (through Logic) and even now hooked up one of my Bricasti's to it, and just cascaded the Toft to the unit now. I think the sound is absolutely amazing!. I have found myself using ribbons more lately with astounding clarity and richness without edge and headroom like there is no tomorrow....( I do a lot of acoustic) . To be honest I wish they made a 32 channel version . You can cascade them but you lose aux returns and things..
It only makes sense when you can have all the colour in the world with different preamps, that too many colours ends up being black.. just my opinion. I think the audio under the hood of this unit is absolutely high end. Look at the price, and no pres included, come on....it had to be for a reason.
You have to buy all Dsub cables too. They aren't cheap for the whole set but the sound to me is really over the top. Again my opinion.

[mfender]

X-Desk + X-Patch is a killer combo. I have presets in the X-Patch for tracking and mixing so I can move all my outboard around with one click.

On the X-Desk I have a Lex verb across the two sends, then I bring my plugin effects from Logic back via return 2 on the X-Desk. I'm mixing down to a Korg MR-2000s straight from the X-Desk.

This works really well for me - my workflow has sped up considerably in the short time I've been on this setup.

[dr_k_schneider]

Originally Posted by konkaos

We mix on SSL 4000/9000 not for analog warmth. They are very clean mixers and the X-Desk is no 4000e or 9000j/k. SSL's do have a sound but not the sound many associate with analog warmth. Even the duality is extra clean.

We have an X-Desk in our 3rd room and it's definitely not of the analog warmth variety as with a nicerizer or api. It seems to be more of a Dangerous style where it can add a touch of depth and width but no transformer warmth. We add a colored comp or pre on the end when necessary for the analog touch.

mmmmmmmm .. does an XD with a good pre compare to your nicerizers etc .. ? dont the other summers like API , nicerizer use a relatively clean internal chain ( someone help me here ? i aint no tech ) pre output then transformers on the output bus? why pay for more output colour if you have good pres sitting about ? in that way the insert function on the x desk linked with good trannies ( or a tape machine ? ) can do the business in theory as good as the other summers , plus you get great ( the one constant opinion in this post re the XDesk ) headroom, clarity and transient response mixed ( at the users liking ) with analogue character, would you agree? yes we all love and need colour.. the XD wont make you happy by itself if you like any kind of vintage sound i think. i may be wrong but the main difference from the good summers and the 'real' consoles ( 4000 / 9000 ) is that the consoles have trannies all over the signal path not simply on the mixbus? there was no other option back then... ie maintenance issues - helicopters loaded with SSL techs flying to marocco etc .. i think the other summers cant integrate outboard as well as the XD and that combined with the mixbus insert could prove to be even more powerful in the long run ... might not be a pristine 20K SSL 4000 but in my experience shits on the logic mixbus from a great distance . sorry, not trying to pat myself on the back and justify a purchase, just trying to work out how it really works in this cloudy summing world for those of us with out big studios .. my 2 cents ( trying to avoid those smilies , i'm ...... trying )

[dr_k_schneider]

Originally Posted by NoEgo

....and I have come to a way of working, where I monitor all tracking with the XDesk (through Logic) and even now hooked up one of my Bricasti's to it, and just cascaded the Toft to the unit now. I think the sound is absolutely amazing!. I have found myself using ribbons more lately with astounding clarity and richness without edge and headroom like there is no tomorrow....( I do a lot of acoustic) . To be honest I wish they made a 32 channel version . You can cascade them but you lose aux returns and things..
It only makes sense when you can have all the colour in the world with different preamps, that too many colours ends up being black.. just my opinion. I think the audio under the hood of this unit is absolutely high end. Look at the price, and no pres included, come on....it had to be for a reason.
You have to buy all Dsub cables too. They aren't cheap for the whole set but the sound to me is really over the top. Again my opinion.

nice post mate, i have a question for you. i have been using my XD for post DAW monitoring only, preferring the more traditional method of pre direct to converter. have you found an improvement by actually tracking with the desk as opposed to just monitoring / mixing with it. ....

[SonOfSteven]

I just picked up an Xdesk and I have a Question about the Centre output. It says this in the online manual

CENTRE OUT D-Sub 25 way female
INS SEND L+R Provides master MIX Insert Send
MIX L+R MIX Bus Output
CUE L+R CUE Bus Output
FX SEND 1 FX 1 Bus Output
FX SEND 2 FX 2 Bus Output

Shouldnt it be MALE not Female since they are outputs.
Now I have a bunch of D-sub Cables but they all are 8 channels this looks like i need 10 channel D-subs.

So do i need a 10 channel male Dsub or is there something wrong in the manual ?

[damienSSL]

Originally Posted by SonOfSteven

I just picked up an Xdesk and I have a Question about the Centre output. It says this in the online manual

CENTRE OUT D-Sub 25 way female
INS SEND L+R Provides master MIX Insert Send
MIX L+R MIX Bus Output
CUE L+R CUE Bus Output
FX SEND 1 FX 1 Bus Output
FX SEND 2 FX 2 Bus Output

Shouldnt it be MALE not Female since they are outputs.
Now I have a bunch of D-sub Cables but they all are 8 channels this looks like i need 10 channel D-subs.

So do i need a 10 channel male Dsub or is there something wrong in the manual ?

FX Send 1 & 2 are mono.

[SonOfSteven]

Originally Posted by damienSSL

FX Send 1 & 2 are mono.

Ah ofcourse, In my excitement Hooking it up to my rig i failed to notice this.

Thanks Damien

[salvator]

We received ours last week !
What a pleasure to have some dedicated analog knobs that directly affect sound, and not digital layers of controllers :-)

Actually the signal path sound clean, spacious and with large headroom.
Good description

But the thing I especially enjoy is having a nice real center section of a console monitoring, and easy access control for things like cue send, reverb etc... I guess this is very comfortable for tracking/mixing.
I also see myself using the trim knobs or fader to ride level to tape.
Need to find time to compare sound of pres straight to converters (and only monitoring return), versus tracking through the X desk, but so far sounds beautiful analog.


Overall it's well built and VERY well thought. Workflow speed up here.

Only drawback is the talkback. Weird mid rangey sound with distortion, sounds like a kind of automatic compressor actually...
Useable but I was expecting something more transparent.

Seems I'm starting to lust after the X-patch now ...
Must resist

Salvator

[Jim@SSL]

That will be the Listen Mic Compressor on the talkback then....

[NoEgo]

Originally Posted by SonOfSteven

I just picked up an Xdesk and I have a Question about the Centre output. It says this in the online manual

CENTRE OUT D-Sub 25 way female
INS SEND L+R Provides master MIX Insert Send
MIX L+R MIX Bus Output
CUE L+R CUE Bus Output
FX SEND 1 FX 1 Bus Output
FX SEND 2 FX 2 Bus Output

Shouldnt it be MALE not Female since they are outputs.
Now I have a bunch of D-sub Cables but they all are 8 channels this looks like i need 10 channel D-subs.

So do i need a 10 channel male Dsub or is there something wrong in the manual ?

yeah the store gave me the wrong cables at first on that assumption. Like my Apogee stuff...male and female...but not the XDesk. the male and female are at the xlr only.

[NoEgo]

Originally Posted by dr_k_schneider

nice post mate, i have a question for you. i have been using my XD for post DAW monitoring only, preferring the more traditional method of pre direct to converter. have you found an improvement by actually tracking with the desk as opposed to just monitoring / mixing with it. ....

No I do what you do. The clean and colour of my pres to AD16X to computer and playback through XDesk. I can't see anything better than direct from pre. Unless your converters or Mic/Pre chain needs massaging.
What it does do is give you exactly what is going in through your monitors. I love it. Even using it on small sparse mixes now...with comps and eq in line and on inserts. And verb ... It's a routing nightmare with my 32 channel already setup but it can be worth it. Like I said....32 channels would be awesome. The cascade approach of several XDesks negates some effects returns though. Especially if you want all boards to go through and come back from one. I wish I could afford a Matrix now that I have heard this unit. I would have to sell my ATB first.
It is just so transparent without edge. Nice polished sound of my mics, pres and comps and the rest is just passage if you will. I only use comps and eq and verb in the box for tracking or monitoring then off they go when I mix. Maybe a little plug in if I need to have a tiny tweak.

[salvator]

Originally Posted by Jim@SSL

That will be the Listen Mic Compressor on the talkback then....

Hi Jim,

Thanks for listening,

In fact after more listening, I'm quite fine with the dynamic aspect of the Listen Mic Compressor (it's even is cool to get consistent speaking level and articulation), and I can live with the slight distortion.

Though I dislike the mic sound itself, too mid rangey but especially it pick too much of "touching" noise
i.e. when touching fader or a knobs, pushing the talkback button, or even just graze the chassis of the console !
More over, (if the DIM is not engaged already) at the moment I push the talkback button, there's a little click/beep sound (I guess a relay switching or similar) sent the cue.

This is just disturbing and umcomfortable, and while I really enjoy the desk, this is a important issue to me...
Probably there's a way to upgrade the mic itself to something else 'electrostatic sounding' ?
I'm pretty sure it's not broken, but the way it work. (I've also heard some other owners disliking the sound of the talkback too)

TO OTHER USERS : how do you like the talkback ?

Salvator

[Duardo]

Shouldnt it be MALE not Female since they are outputs.

I don't recall ever seeing a male D-Sub connector on any piece of gear. Same with 1/4" connectors...always female on the gear and male on the cables.

[NoEgo]

Originally Posted by Duardo

I don't recall ever seeing a male D-Sub connector on any piece of gear. Same with 1/4" connectors...always female on the gear and male on the cables.

Come to think of it the Apogee stuff is all female too. The store however had given me the female cables. Something must use them ..just saying.

[Deuce 225]

Originally Posted by Coyoteous

I have one and X-Rack summing...The X-Desk is a lot more than a summing mixer; it's a mini-console....

With a little special hook-up, I think I can sum over 40 inputs to 5 stereo buses between the two. In other words, you can make your own groups with a little fiddling. The X-Desk is great for tracking and cue, especially for overdubs on native systems. I probably missed some possibilities, like easy parallel processing, etc. Next, I'll be playing with transformers on the channel and/or bus inserts.

Coyoteous,

I'm really interesting in your tracking set-up. Could you share a typical tracking sheet ? How many "active" channels of tracking have you been able to do at the same time?

Thanks a lot,
Tim Cochran

[Coyoteous]

Originally Posted by Deuce 225

Coyoteous,

I'm really interesting in your tracking set-up. Could you share a typical tracking sheet ? How many "active" channels of tracking have you been able to do at the same time?

Thanks a lot,
Tim Cochran

Hi Tim,

So far, I've only been tracking a few channels a time through the X-Desk... usually four or less. I use the direct outs to go to the A/D, with those channel inputs from whatever sources. Then, I return the DAW D/A to the X-Desk ALT channel inputs. It's great for me for an eight track setup. You can use the CUE bus for an actual alternate monitor mix, or for a stereo effects send along with the two mono sends.

Currently, I'm using 6-in/10-out conversion that I treat sort of as an eight track recorder, though I'm less two on the in-side plus two on the outs. I'm due for a conversion upgrade that will be 8x8, 16x16, or maybe even 24x24 if I go with SSL conversion. If I go beyond 8x8, that's going to change things. But, I really like going through this to record. So, even with 16x16, I may stick with eight or less active inputs.

I also have 12 channels of X-Rack summing, although that's really a separate system. Trying to integrate the two seems like it might be messy, though I can just use the X-Rack for summing/monitoring. I'm still hopeful that SSL will come out with a 12 channel X-Desk expander. For me, that would take it into the territory of tracking bands with drums, etc. I'm not set up for that currently, anyway.

If they were to produce an expander, I might sell the X-Rack mixing modules. Although, they are very useful for utility in the studio and for my live rig. I know I could just get another X-Desk, but the center section redundancy and the way they chain is not attractive to me. A single X-Desk really is best for eight track tracking, pushing over to sixteen+ "at mixdown."

[Deuce 225]

Thanks Coyoteus !

Best,
Tim

[Veseli]

Finally got my X-Desk.
Took a while with all those flights canceled in Europe last week...
So after installation and listening to some music through it this morning I feel very excited and happy with its sound and all the features I must say.

I have connected 16 outs from my SSL Alpha-Link AX converter to its inputs,
used Portico 5042 Tape FX on master insert,

I record the mix to first two channels in ProTools and monitor through same track. Its output assigned to channels 17-18 out from ProTools and plugged into Ext Source input on X-Desk, so I listen through the "Tape" while mixing. So, it's possible, (I remember someone asking earlier on this thread)

I'm not tracking through it (yet) I have sent parallel outputs from my preamps to Insert Returns on X-Desk just for headphones monitoring, so only when I press Insert button, I can hear the preamps during recording.
For the headphones mix for the artist, I send 3 stereo stems to a small Mackie console which serves as headphone amp.
First is Cue Mix Out (just for X-Desks talkback and whatever goes to the Cue), second is direct outs from X-Desks channels 1 and 2 (DAW out, playback), and third is direct outs from X-Desk channels 7 and 8 which is preamps (with insert button pressed so its a mic preamp or DI).
Like this artist can make mix for him/herself between talkback, music matrix and his voice or instrument.
(I'm not tracking more than 4 channels here at home and this system is my way to avoid "Cue Mix does not dim when talkback button pressed" problem)
So I think It really fulfilled all my needs at this moment.
I will get a nice patchbay soon so setup will get even more flexible.

Voting for X-Desk side car expansion, I would buy it for sure !

[soundseeker]

Hi you guys

How does the x desk work with hardware inserts. 2 effects per channel right/ does that mean you can put two pieces of gear into each of the 8 signal paths?

How do you guys manage to mix wuith 8 channels?/ are you only putting the main tracks through the desk and summing the rest straight form the DAW

Its a bit confusing for me

[Jim@SSL]

16 ins at mixdown. Get a good demo from a knowledgeable dealer. best advice I can give.

[NoEgo]

Originally Posted by soundseeker

Hi you guys

How does the x desk work with hardware inserts. 2 effects per channel right/ does that mean you can put two pieces of gear into each of the 8 signal paths?

How do you guys manage to mix wuith 8 channels?/ are you only putting the main tracks through the desk and summing the rest straight form the DAW

Its a bit confusing for me

No..
The insert is on the line in. The second in runs through the cue buss not to the fader. So you only have one insert per channel (on the fader main input) for a total of 8. If you daisy chain your processors then you can have a limiter to a comp to and eq if you want as long as it only arrives at the return once. By bringing the second set you go through cue... You could however inline a compressor on the way to the board in the second input on the channel. There is also a stereo insert on the mains output.
The fact that there are two ways into a channel is amazing in itself especially as there is no loss of signal ..It is still full of head room.
A little mixer with 10 channels of processor inserts is pretty adequate I would think. Like I said if you want more, just put them in line instead inserted. The limitation is that there are not 8 busses as on bigger boards...where you can send groups of audio to a compressor for group or parallel compression.

[salvator]

So am I the only one concerned about the talkback quality and noise that is induced when one touche the console (like faders, knobs etc...) ? .

Salvator

[Coyoteous]

Originally Posted by salvator

So am I the only one concerned about the talkback quality and noise that is induced when one touche the console (like faders, knobs etc...) ? .

Salvator

No Salvator, you are not the only one. I hope to mod mine someday with either more mic isolation and/or an external mic-in. That said, I'm mainly using it to record myself, so TB isn't really an issue. It is too bad that there isn't a TB mic-in, like Sam the designer said there was. I still like the product, though.

added: hey, I just realized that you are the Tritone developer. What's up with that? I know the whole MAX/MSP debacle isn't your fault, but my investment in AngelTone is pretty much worthless now. I'd like to try your new native EQ, though I'm hesitant to buy it if it will be free with an upgrade later. Please keep us informed on your forum.

[salvator]

Coyoteous,

I'd be interested to hear about your result with mic mods once it's done.
May dig into it myself at some point anyway.

For the AngelTone plugin, we're also going native. Please email me and I'll arrange something for you.

Salvator

[samw@SSL]

Originally Posted by Coyoteous

It is too bad that there isn't a TB mic-in, like Sam the designer said there was. I still like the product, though.

You may have to remind me when I made this comment I have no recollection of it and at no point did it ever have a TB Mic in.

Users should note that this is the same design as in our larger consoles. You do not need to lean over and shout into the TB Mic.

They are specifically designed that you can hear the producer from the sofa behind you.

Best wishes,
Sam
Solid State Logic

[NoEgo]

Originally Posted by samw@SSL

You may have to remind me when I made this comment I have no recollection of it and at no point did it ever have a TB Mic in.

Users should note that this is the same design as in our larger consoles. You do not need to lean over and shout into the TB Mic.

They are specifically designed that you can hear the producer from the sofa behind you.

Best wishes,
Sam
Solid State Logic

Yeah I agree. You don't record with these things...just get your cues.
I have another one of these on my Toft board... it distorts too if you lean into it. Just turn up your talk volume and stay the hell away from it... Just teasing...but it shouldn't distort if you don't lean into it.

[salvator]

Hello Sam,

The autoleveling stuff and ability to hear the producer is great IMO.
I actually enjoy that the producer or me can just talk normally and be understood.

And finally, I'm not anymore much concerned about the mid rangey sound or the slight distortion : as long as communication work great (which is the case after several sessions, the embed compressor is nice to keep constant level), I can live with that (and after all, that's only the artist that hear that sound ).

But I'm still concerned about a kind of mechanical coupling between the chassis and the mic in the Xdesk. The amount of sound picked when one move a control (i.e. fader/knob), is just too much unfortunately...
It sound exaclty like when you touch the body of a condender mic.
I have the feeling that the whole console is like the mic's body and that the capusle is too much coupled with the console.
And I had an artist that complained about such noise.
(I often keep talkback mic always on even while recording , and moving faders is heard in the cue ! )

I guess, maybe having the talkback mic mounted on neoprene material or such could help ? maybe it's already the case ? Any solution ?

Still enjoying the console though.

Salvator

[Coyoteous]

Originally Posted by samw@SSL

You may have to remind me when I made this comment I have no recollection of it and at no point did it ever have a TB Mic in.

My mistake... you indicated there was a TB out, which there also isn't:

SSL X-Desk

Originally Posted by samw@SSL

If you really had to get the T/B onto Aux 1+ 2 (FX 1+2) you could always patch the Talkback into a channel and feed that onto 1+2.

I again agree with Salvator. The pick-up of the mechanical noise is annoying.