Tape Op Article: Sufjan Stevens - greatest engineer ever?

[frontierfran]

anyone else read that article in Tape Op about Sufjan Stevens?
His guerrila recording techniques. recording at 32 and not at least 44.1. Dumping tracks 2 tracks at a time into PT from a 4 track...manually overdubbing drums and lining them up by eye. using nothing but 57's...

If the article is 100% geniune, then it really does say something about gear, or, perhaps the need of high end stuff to make a really nice sounding album.

now, there will be arguments on how good that album sounds, but I can say this: I doubt many people on this board would detect how "amateur" the tracking and mixing were done. It really sounds much better than the methodology behind it would dictate.

possible bottom line: good gear might only be for those of us who need a lot of help with mixing since the better the gear up front, the easier it is to mix.
And, or, Sufjan Stevens is the greatest enginneer to have ever lived.

if you havnt read it, read it. its facinating.

[bcgood]

For some reason I haven't received a Tape Op in some time. It really bums me out! At any rate Sufjan is awesome. I consider Come On Feel the Illinoise to be one of the better sounding digitally recorded albums I have. Other people must agree because that album is probably one of the best reviewed albums of 2005. Metacritic stated it was the best reviewed album of 2005 and Pitchfork gave it Album of the Year.

There was a pretty old thread awhile back where we talked about his gear and the room he recorded as well as mastering etc. I'm looking forward to hearing another state themed album from him. I hope it comes out soon!

[JustinAiken]

Just finished reading that article... listening to Michigan now, and I can't believe that this is all 32khz SM57 and C1000s! Wow!

[frontierfran]

amazing right?
I love how he sent back the c1000 because it was broken. turned out he was using an unbalanced XLR->1/4" cable so no phantom.
this article inspires me to be so much more of a critical listener than I am now.

[logicll]

people have been known to lie in magazines.....

[frontierfran]

Originally Posted by logicll

people have been known to lie in magazines.....

no shit, but who cares. all fiction is a lie, right?

its inspiring. take it for what it is.

[kieran kelly]

Haven't seen the article yet but The Buddy Project is my little space and can assure you that it was mainly recorded to his VS880 ( or what ever model it was ) here using our modest drums , Guitars , Keyboards , Amps , mics and preamps .

I think his arrangements are wonderful and that is where the magic is.

[logicll]

[QUOTE]no shit, but who cares. all fiction is a lie, right?

its inspiring. take it for what it is./QUOTE]

Inspired?? If this is what you vicariously choose to live through that's you deal. I personally don't believe most of what I read.

[frontierfran]

Logic,
I choose to be inspired by lots of things
you shouldnt limit yourself so much...

...and if you dont believe much that you read, well, with your 500+ posts on here, I'd say you've wasted a whole lot of time.

[Osumosan]

Originally Posted by frontierfran

no shit, but who cares. all fiction is a lie, right?

its inspiring. take it for what it is.

Hey! I just jumped off a bridge and flapped my arms. Guess what?! I can fly. I hope that this can inspire others to fly as well.

[leftbrain]

Sorry I can't take this Sufjan dude seriously. Guess I'm from a different world. I think I'm glad my Tape-Ops stopped showing up at my door step.

[mhecker]

thought, he was using at4033.

martin

[n8tron]

Originally Posted by logicll

Inspired?? If this is what you vicariously choose to live through that's you deal. I personally don't believe most of what I read.

Originally Posted by Osumosan

Hey! I just jumped off a bridge and flapped my arms. Guess what?! I can fly. I hope that this can inspire others to fly as well.

Damn... some downers in this thread...

I'm with you frontierfran. definitely inspiring. It shows that when the concentrations on the music first and for most the results will come through no matter the technique.

I've had a number of albums that weren't recorded "well" whether they actually sound pretty good like sufjans, or sound simply bad, a few I still love cause of the quality of the songs. But what I really wonder is in the end would I like the music as much if it had been done with the best of the best, both equipment and engineer? Its an unanswerable question, but still. The character that comes with some of these home recordings really helps the music and songs shine.

other bands I'm thinking of, in case anyone is interested, Old Canes and Bon Iver, among others.

[bcgood]

Originally Posted by mhecker

thought, he was using at4033.

martin

He used 57's mostly on Michigan and the 4033 through an old Altec for Illinoise.

[frontierfran]

Originally Posted by leftbrain

Sorry I can't take this Sufjan dude seriously. Guess I'm from a different world. I think I'm glad my Tape-Ops stopped showing up at my door step.

yea. I just thought it was a fresh interview, thought id share
...something different than the standard "I use a U47 into my 1073 then into the 1176 into my vintage EMI console" or "i hate analog i only use pro tools" type interviews. the "anti-engineer" point of view/Ignorace is bliss sort of thing.

Tape Op is free. I dont deny anything free anymore, and their interviews, or gear reviews alone are worth the nothing i pay for it. and their ads are like Vogue Mag for Geeks.

[leftbrain]

Originally Posted by n8tron

Damn... some downers in this thread...

I'm with you frontierfran. definitely inspiring. It shows that when the concentrations on the music first and for most the results will come through no matter the technique.

I've had a number of albums that weren't recorded "well" whether they actually sound pretty good like sufjans, or sound simply bad, a few I still love cause of the quality of the songs. But what I really wonder is in the end would I like the music as much if it had been done with the best of the best, both equipment and engineer? Its an unanswerable question, but still. The character that comes with some of these home recordings really helps the music and songs shine.

other bands I'm thinking of, in case anyone is interested, Old Canes and Bon Iver, among others.

Ya it's true I personally would hate to come of as a downer. I think the goal in producing, engineering and recording should be to make something timeless at whatever cost. Perhaps the cost is in expensive gear, or perhaps it's measured in time and energy. Either way doing something for cheap and making it sound good doesn't mean anything more than doing something expensive and having it sound good.... all I want is it to be TIMELESS. Perhaps we all agree and gear doesn't matter...but we are all meeting in one place called GearSlutz. I do love recording vocals with a 57, live with the band no bells, no whistles.

[Brad McGowan]

I'm a fan of Sufjan Stevens and I think his recordings sound real and honest, which is more than I can say for half of the music that people make. I find it very inspiring that he created a critically acclaimed album using 57's and the wrong sample rate. If only my blunders using more expensive gear sounded half as good.

You know, the one thing I've learned over the years hanging out on Gearslutz, reading TapeOp magazine, and recording music for others is that in the end the gear doesn't really mean that much. Leftbrain--you make a good point that I wholeheartedly agree with. Recordings should be timeless regardless of the equipment or approach used.

Brad

[leftbrain]

Originally Posted by frontierfran

yea. I just thought it was a fresh interview, thought id share
...something different than the standard "I use a U47 into my 1073 then into the 1176 into my vintage EMI console" or "i hate analog i only use pro tools" type interviews. the "anti-engineer" point of view/Ignorace is bliss sort of thing.

Tape Op is free. I dont deny anything free anymore, and their interviews, or gear reviews alone are worth the nothing i pay for it. and their ads are like Vogue Mag for Geeks.

No you're right, you should share..... it's good fun. Tape-Op is better than all the rest. We are all on the same team. Team first. I mean it, I should just get back to work... edits in Pro Tools!!!!

[cjogo]

Just the fact that Sufjan has the recording respected in the public's ear & has favored articles appearing across the media..........it proves its not the gear. We still have the VS 880 in 2 of our studios --- our main : is the Rolands 2480 ---- The tracks are not dumped to a PC/Mac platform >> and the At 4033 is one our fav mics. Whatever it takes to finish the project & under the clients budget.

[n8tron]

Originally Posted by frontierfran

...something different than the standard "I use a U47 into my 1073 then into the 1176 into my vintage EMI console"

ha, this made me laugh

seriously, how many times I've heard this exactly with maybe a few variations (87 for 47, la2a for 1176 and ssl instead of EMI). Probably makes up a huge % of the answers to the "what was your signal chain?" questions of most top 40 engineers.

Probably why most popular music sounds the same to me, production-wise anyway. Not to say it sounds bad, but just the same.

One thing I think I come back to in my own recordings is taking my time. I can rush setting up a lot and overlook something, or not take the time to fix something, you know its all downhill from there...

[porieux]

Why in the world would anyone record at 32kHz?

[n8tron]

Originally Posted by porieux

Why in the world would anyone record at 32kHz?

apparently to save hard drive space on his VS 880 so he could fit the full arrangements in.

you do what you gotta do with what you have.

[Beneficial]

Originally Posted by porieux

Why in the world would anyone record at 32kHz?

The article said he didn't know how to turn on the 44.1kHz setting.

[TurboJets]

It's true, guys do sometimes lie in interviews or they can get carried away and exaggerate...A LOT.

...but

...Stevens has a solid rep and anyone that passes the Larry Crane test and makes it into TapeOp definitely has something to say that I'd like to read. Larry Crane is a seasoned expert and incredible artist when it comes to the recording process, and that's no exaggeration.

[andrewjudah]

Could somebody PM me the article? I don't get tape op here.

[bcgood]

Originally Posted by TurboJets

It's true, guys do sometimes lie in interviews or they can get carried away and exaggerate...A LOT.

...but

...Stevens has a solid rep and anyone that passes the Larry Crane test and makes it into TapeOp definitely has something to say that I'd like to read. Larry Crane is a seasoned expert and incredible artist when it comes to the recording process, and that's no exaggeration.

I have a lot of respect for Larry Crane as well. Listen to Kieskagato - You Are the One Who Can and Elliot Smith - Either Or. The work speaks for itself.

[drumzealot]

Originally Posted by n8tron

Damn... some downers in this thread....

Hey, people gotta piss somewhere. Might as well be on people who like something and have a positive outlook.

I love recording to cassette 4-track and then dumping it into digital. Grainy yet beefy sound.

Originally Posted by bcgood

I have a lot of respect for Larry Crane as well. Listen to Kieskagato - You Are the One Who Can and Elliot Smith - Either Or. The work speaks for itself.

Werd GRANDE

[E Baxter Put]

I'm not a fan of his music at all, but it was an inspiring interview. His recording skills are good enough that it doesn't sound distractingly lo-fi. He does give a lot of credit to the mastering engineer.

I don't think he's the greatest engineer ever. Let's see how well he can polish a turd!

[TurboJets]

Originally Posted by E Baxter Put

Let's see how well he can polish a turd!

If there's one engineer that can polish a turd, I think it would be Joel Hamilton.

[cjogo]

Originally Posted by porieux

Why in the world would anyone record at 32kHz?

Same reason one switches from 30 to 7 1/2 ips storage/tape stock