Apogee AD-8000 ...is it really this quiet?

[hazelmossobrien]

ok, so i figured out the problem sort of.......there are 10 aux switches on the back, the first is for +4 or -10. I had the ad8000 sett to +4 according to the manual, which is switch down. I changed it to switch up and now the signal is much hotter, but according to the manual its now -10. this makes no sense, plus the man who sold it to me used it the same way i am using it, and it was switch down on arrival, as he had it set. what am i missing? also, the sound quality is seemingly the same as my 003 converters, what am i not doing right?

[hazelmossobrien]

no ad-8000 users out there?

[andrewh]

Have you tried contacting Apogee?

[alloysound]

the -10 vs. +4 behavior does make sense. +4 is used for balanced signals, and -10 is used for unbalanced signals, and have different reference levels. Think of it more as a sensitivity switch, not like +4db of gain versus -10db of gain. So you should be getting more gain from the -10 setting by design. This is true of any gear with a -10/+4 switch. The API 3124 has balanced outputs, so you want to use the +4 setting. You would only use the -10 setting for unbalanced gear, or anything referenced to -10 instead of +4.
So why the difference with the 003? depends on which inputs you are using. check the -10/+4 settings on each channel if using inputs 5-8.

Personally, I can't imagine that the A/D's on the 003 are same/better than the AD8000. I love the AD8k, have used them since they came out, and still use one. More often it is the cumulative effect of recording all of your tracks with a particular A/D versus anther where you really notice the difference. Sometimes you also have to live with one for a while before the difference is obvious.

[Max The Dog]

Apogee has the best tech support in the business, from my experience. I'd call them up. They will probably be able to tell you what's what in 30 seconds.

[hazelmossobrien]

Originally Posted by alloysound

the -10 vs. +4 behavior does make sense. +4 is used for balanced signals, and -10 is used for unbalanced signals, and have different reference levels. Think of it more as a sensitivity switch, not like +4db of gain versus -10db of gain. So you should be getting more gain from the -10 setting by design. This is true of any gear with a -10/+4 switch. The API 3124 has balanced outputs, so you want to use the +4 setting. You would only use the -10 setting for unbalanced gear, or anything referenced to -10 instead of +4.
So why the difference with the 003? depends on which inputs you are using. check the -10/+4 settings on each channel if using inputs 5-8.

Personally, I can't imagine that the A/D's on the 003 are same/better than the AD8000. I love the AD8k, have used them since they came out, and still use one. More often it is the cumulative effect of recording all of your tracks with a particular A/D versus anther where you really notice the difference. Sometimes you also have to live with one for a while before the difference is obvious.

well, now that ive had in for a month it sounds worlds better then my 003 stock A/D...

...i have the rear aux set to -10 on the AD8k, and it sound like its supposed to sound...i think...when set to +4 its faint and i need lots of gain from the preamp...do you think i should still leave it at +4 and just boost the preamp gain? ...im still a bit confused.

[alloysound]

It should be set for +4 since the API is +4. And yes, it is right that you would need to turn up the pre to hit the converter at the correct level.

Something to note - when the meter on the API hits 0, you should be around -16 on the Apogee. You still have a ways to go before clipping the pre, and you will clip the AD before that happens.

Originally Posted by hazelmossobrien

well, now that ive had in for a month it sounds worlds better then my 003 stock A/D...

...i have the rear aux set to -10 on the AD8k, and it sound like its supposed to sound...i think...when set to +4 its faint and i need lots of gain from the preamp...do you think i should still leave it at +4 and just boost the preamp gain? ...im still a bit confused.

[kurt]

Originally Posted by hazelmossobrien

i just got an ad-8000 in i bought from a fellow member...it puts out a WAY softer signal into protools than i expected...i tested coming direct out of api 3124 into my 003 line inputs and it sounded great as usual, hot and clear! i went from the same api channel into the ad-8000 and then into 003 via ADAT and the signal is way way less hot, am i doing something wrong? the aux on the back of the apogee is set to +4...the apogee has more headroom than the 003, and it seemingly sounds better, but its hard to tell myself "louder isn't always better" ....regardless it just seems so quiet...

Read the manual (download from apogee) & calibrate its I/O. You dont know what previous owner has done to it.

[hazelmossobrien]

Originally Posted by alloysound

It should be set for +4 since the API is +4. And yes, it is right that you would need to turn up the pre to hit the converter at the correct level.

Something to note - when the meter on the API hits 0, you should be around -16 on the Apogee. You still have a ways to go before clipping the pre, and you will clip the AD before that happens.

i calibrated the AD8K to sit at -12 when my api is at 0 vu and set the aux back to +4....this is the level that seems similar in hotness as lining into the 003, though i might change down to -14 or -16 when i actually try to track with it (i only tested it with a 1khz tone, then talking into a mic) the apogee was calibrated all wacky when i got it i guess. it seems that i will never use the "soft limit" this way though, as the api breaks up or protools clips before the "soft limit" function gets a chance to work.

[dualflip]

Quick question, when you go directly to the 003 are you going into the pre-amp inputs?, and i mean the line pre-amp inputs which i believe are chans 1-4, if you are, then try going to channels 5-8 and see if you still have differences in gain, cuz the pre-amp inputs often give a gain boost even if the knob is all the way down.

[Benmrx]

Originally Posted by kurt

Read the manual (download from apogee) & calibrate its I/O. You dont know what previous owner has done to it.

[hazelmossobrien]

Originally Posted by dualflip

Quick question, when you go directly to the 003 are you going into the pre-amp inputs?, and i mean the line pre-amp inputs which i believe are chans 1-4, if you are, then try going to channels 5-8 and see if you still have differences in gain, cuz the pre-amp inputs often give a gain boost even if the knob is all the way down.

yea, im using the line-ins 5-8 on the 003 all set at +4....i think it was just a calibration issue with the AD8K that seems to be solved now, i'll see next session i guess!

[kurt]

Originally Posted by hazelmossobrien

I went from the same api channel into the ad-8000 and then into 003 via ADAT.

Originally Posted by hazelmossobrien

yea, im using the line-ins 5-8 on the 003 all set at +4....i think it was just a calibration issue with the AD8K that seems to be solved now, i'll see next session i guess!

Hi. If you go analog from AD-8000 to the 003, what is purpose of inserting one more ADC stage between API & 003?
Forget analog I/O if you can go digital, ADAT Light Pipe to & from both units. Why would you want AD convert already superior AD
converted signal again & occupy valuable analog I/O on the 003?
If 003 is calibrated -18dbfs = 0VU, you should calibrate the small pots on the AD-8000 accordingly with a screwdriver.
Calibrate switch on the front of the AD-8000 serves other purposes.

[alloysound]

+1 on the calibration... Apogee suggests -16 in the manual.

I started to write a note about that in my last post but it turned into a major work of literature... sounds like you're on it.

thumbsup

As you know, you shouldn't be hearing distortion unless you actually clip the converter, and you should be able to use soft limit. The meters in PT should reflect what you are seeing on the AD8000 meters.

[PlugHead]

Originally Posted by hazelmossobrien

no ad-8000 users out there?

Lots, I'm sure (me being one!)

I'd also suggest reading the manual - if you're interfacing the AD8000 directly with the API you should be at balanced (+4) into the AD8000.

IME, the AD8000 is better conversion than the stock 002R (003) I have, and is not a 'noisy' converter per se, but is eclipsed by more modern/current converter designs.

That said, it is still quite a good converter and should not be shunned as second-rate unless all the rest of your gear is fully 'top tier' stuff.

If problems persist, I would suggest contacting the support staff at Apogee - they are helpful and should help lead you down the right path...