DIY mid side technique for lowering mid info on stereo track

**Blast9** · 10th March 2009, 05:00 PM

Hi folks - I'm sure this has been asked before but I can't find it:

(using PTLE 7.4)

I have an interleaved stereo track and I want to lower the mid info.

So far I ve put it on 2 stereo channels:

2nd channel has the track reversed R-L instead of L-R, and by juggling the level of that fader it does kinda work... But I'm sure this isn't the correct method.

jproc · 10th March 2009, 05:43 PM

Voxengo makes a great free VST called MSED which does inline mid-side encoding/decoding... much simpler than splitting the tracks and setting everything up...

Voxengo - MSED

Ben B · 10th March 2009, 09:07 PM

De-interleave the stereo file so that its left and right components are on two separate tracks of PT. Duplicate these tracks twice, so that you have six tracks in total.

Take the two original L&R tracks, and pan them both center. Take the next L&R pair, and pan them both to the left. Take the third L&R pair, and pan them both to the right.

Next, use the Audiosuite "Invert" plug-in to reverse the polarity of tracks 4 and 5.

Position check:

Track 1 - Original left signal, normal polarity, panned center
Track 2 - Original right signal, normal polarity, panned center
Track 3 - Original left signal, normal polarity, panned left
Track 4 - Original right signal, inverted polarity, also panned left
Track 5 - Original left signal, inverted polarity, panned right
Track 6 - Original right signal, normal polarity, also panned right

Make a mix group out of tracks 1 and 2, called "mono sum." Make another mix group out of tracks 3-6, called "difference." At this point, you can adjust the ratio of center to sides information by manipulating your mix groups. Further bussing/subgrouping would also allow you to apply separate processing to the center and sides.

Another approach you could take is to use three stereo tracks, and a multi-mono Trim plug-in, which would allow you to phase-reverse the necessary files in real-time. I prefer the Audiosuite method, as it negates the potential problem of unequal plug-in latencies among the tracks. (This too can be avoided by using Automatic Delay Compensation in HD, or by using redundant trim plug-ins everywhere.)

-Ben B

tINY · 10th March 2009, 10:14 PM

It's a lot easier in Sonar.

-tINY

Mike Brown · 10th March 2009, 10:49 PM

Great post!

Couple notes:

PT does not play back interleaved audio files.... (it splits them into multi-mono files).

It is a waste of money to pay for a plugin when you can do it all yourself very easily with some know how.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ben B

De-interleave the stereo file so that its left and right components are on two separate tracks of PT. Duplicate these tracks twice, so that you have six tracks in total.

Take the two original L&R tracks, and pan them both center. Take the next L&R pair, and pan them both to the left. Take the third L&R pair, and pan them both to the right.

Next, use the Audiosuite "Invert" plug-in to reverse the polarity of tracks 4 and 5.

Position check:

Track 1 - Original left signal, normal polarity, panned center
Track 2 - Original right signal, normal polarity, panned center
Track 3 - Original left signal, normal polarity, panned left
Track 4 - Original right signal, inverted polarity, also panned left
Track 5 - Original left signal, inverted polarity, panned right
Track 6 - Original right signal, normal polarity, also panned right

Make a mix group out of tracks 1 and 2, called "mono sum." Make another mix group out of tracks 3-6, called "difference." At this point, you can adjust the ratio of center to sides information by manipulating your mix groups. Further bussing/subgrouping would also allow you to apply separate processing to the center and sides.

Another approach you could take is to use three stereo tracks, and a multi-mono Trim plug-in, which would allow you to phase-reverse the necessary files in real-time. I prefer the Audiosuite method, as it negates the potential problem of unequal plug-in latencies among the tracks. (This too can be avoided by using Automatic Delay Compensation in HD, or by using redundant trim plug-ins everywhere.)

-Ben B

**Blast9** · 11th March 2009, 12:49 AM

OK guys I'll try all of the above.

thanks

I didn't realise PT automaticaly splits an interleaved stereo file

jproc · 11th March 2009, 07:08 PM

The voxengo plugin (and several others) are free...

plus, you dont need a bunch of extra tracks/groups... just insert, select "inline" mode, adjust side gain, adjust mid gain... done...

Macky · 20th October 2009, 08:03 PM

Been checking out mid side in general (Pro tools) today and this thread was very helpful. Now, which mic to buy with fig 8

Thanks

FeatheredSerpent · 20th October 2009, 09:20 PM

Was given the link to this plug the other day which is insanely useful and simple to use : just duplicate the stereo file, insert the plug on each of the stereo tracks, then select mid on one and side on the other and adjust to taste.
Also has a stereo widener.

MS-Mastering Tools by Brainworx-Media

John Eppstein · 20th October 2009, 10:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FeatheredSerpent

Was given the link to this plug the other day which is insanely useful and simple to use : just duplicate the stereo file, insert the plug on each of the stereo tracks, then select mid on one and side on the other and adjust to taste.
Also has a stereo widener.

MS-Mastering Tools by Brainworx-Media

Anything like this in VST on PC?

FeatheredSerpent · 20th October 2009, 10:39 PM

I'm using it as vst on PC, if you follow the download link on that page then you'll find all the different options for mac and pc

papanauta · 27th October 2009, 06:00 PM

thank you Ben B.
i love this place

10th March 2009, 05:00 PM	#1
Blast9 Moderator Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: London Posts: 3,612	DIY mid side technique for lowering mid info on stereo track Hi folks - I'm sure this has been asked before but I can't find it: (using PTLE 7.4) I have an interleaved stereo track and I want to lower the mid info. So far I ve put it on 2 stereo channels: 2nd channel has the track reversed R-L instead of L-R, and by juggling the level of that fader it does kinda work... But I'm sure this isn't the correct method. __________________ :: The Yardbirds http://www.theyardbirds.com :: myspace > http://www.myspace.com/andymitchellrock - I used Chameleon Labs 7602 and Mackie Satellite pres, PTLE, Shure beta 87A, Tech21 (Sansamp Bass Driver DI, TRi-AC) and Addictive Drums :: twitter > http://twitter.com/mitchellmusic - http://www.twitter.com/theyardbirds :: My guitars: Atkin OM (sitka spruce top walnut back: sweet mids):: Atkin Small Jumbo (cedar top, rosewood back: big bottom, sparkly top)

11th March 2009, 12:49 AM	#6
Blast9 Moderator Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: London Posts: 3,612	OK guys I'll try all of the above. thanks I didn't realise PT automaticaly splits an interleaved stereo file __________________ :: The Yardbirds http://www.theyardbirds.com :: myspace > http://www.myspace.com/andymitchellrock - I used Chameleon Labs 7602 and Mackie Satellite pres, PTLE, Shure beta 87A, Tech21 (Sansamp Bass Driver DI, TRi-AC) and Addictive Drums :: twitter > http://twitter.com/mitchellmusic - http://www.twitter.com/theyardbirds :: My guitars: Atkin OM (sitka spruce top walnut back: sweet mids):: Atkin Small Jumbo (cedar top, rosewood back: big bottom, sparkly top)

20th October 2009, 09:20 PM	#9
FeatheredSerpent Lives for gear Join Date: Aug 2008 Posts: 2,350	Was given the link to this plug the other day which is insanely useful and simple to use : just duplicate the stereo file, insert the plug on each of the stereo tracks, then select mid on one and side on the other and adjust to taste. Also has a stereo widener. MS-Mastering Tools by Brainworx-Media __________________ "No, I'm playing all the right notes, just not necessarily in the right order"

20th October 2009, 10:39 PM	#11
FeatheredSerpent Lives for gear Join Date: Aug 2008 Posts: 2,350	I'm using it as vst on PC, if you follow the download link on that page then you'll find all the different options for mac and pc __________________ "No, I'm playing all the right notes, just not necessarily in the right order"

27th October 2009, 06:00 PM	#12
papanauta Gear Head Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: SCL Posts: 69	thank you Ben B. i love this place __________________ Pablo Gil Lozano www.laorejadespierta.cl

10th March 2009, 05:43 PM	#2
jproc Gear addict Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Philadelphia Posts: 385	Voxengo makes a great free VST called MSED which does inline mid-side encoding/decoding... much simpler than splitting the tracks and setting everything up... Voxengo - MSED

10th March 2009, 09:07 PM	#3
Ben B Lives for gear Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: USA Posts: 920	De-interleave the stereo file so that its left and right components are on two separate tracks of PT. Duplicate these tracks twice, so that you have six tracks in total. Take the two original L&R tracks, and pan them both center. Take the next L&R pair, and pan them both to the left. Take the third L&R pair, and pan them both to the right. Next, use the Audiosuite "Invert" plug-in to reverse the polarity of tracks 4 and 5. Position check: Track 1 - Original left signal, normal polarity, panned center Track 2 - Original right signal, normal polarity, panned center Track 3 - Original left signal, normal polarity, panned left Track 4 - Original right signal, inverted polarity, also panned left Track 5 - Original left signal, inverted polarity, panned right Track 6 - Original right signal, normal polarity, also panned right Make a mix group out of tracks 1 and 2, called "mono sum." Make another mix group out of tracks 3-6, called "difference." At this point, you can adjust the ratio of center to sides information by manipulating your mix groups. Further bussing/subgrouping would also allow you to apply separate processing to the center and sides. Another approach you could take is to use three stereo tracks, and a multi-mono Trim plug-in, which would allow you to phase-reverse the necessary files in real-time. I prefer the Audiosuite method, as it negates the potential problem of unequal plug-in latencies among the tracks. (This too can be avoided by using Automatic Delay Compensation in HD, or by using redundant trim plug-ins everywhere.) -Ben B

10th March 2009, 10:14 PM	#4
tINY Lives for gear Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Orygun Posts: 8,868	It's a lot easier in Sonar. -tINY

11th March 2009, 07:08 PM	#7
jproc Gear addict Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Philadelphia Posts: 385	The voxengo plugin (and several others) are free... plus, you dont need a bunch of extra tracks/groups... just insert, select "inline" mode, adjust side gain, adjust mid gain... done...

20th October 2009, 08:03 PM	#8
Macky Gear addict Join Date: Feb 2009 Posts: 415	Been checking out mid side in general (Pro tools) today and this thread was very helpful. Now, which mic to buy with fig 8 Thanks

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