Audient Zen - High Resolution Analogue Console

[basho]

Originally Posted by steve_flower

Hi Lunatic,

Zen uses the HUI protocol, which was - I'm sure you guessed - was developed for the Mackie HUI.

Using this protocol allows Zen to send and receive automation data to/from your DAW software. Effectively Zen acts like a control surface with Cuts and Faders - but with one big difference - audio goes through the cuts and faders.

Some of the benifits of this method are that it allows you use a single user interface for all automation - be it within your DAW or controlling Zen. You also get all the options that your DAW provides relating to automation writing and editing. Of course, all your automation data is kept in your main project file too.

We expect people to set up 16 or 32 channel in their DAW that are dedicated to automation of Zen.

I hope that helps!

Hi,

Just to clarify: the console writes automation onto the DAW program itself via HUI? Won't this cause problems patching in compressors via the inserts if the output level from the DACs varies along with the automation? The automation isn't happening post fader on the console correct? Is there a workaround this?

[andydeckstrous]

The automation control from the DAW comes from 16 channels that do not carry any audio at the end of your session- purely control the fader values of the audio fader on the console. Good news is that at that point you are not changing any output levels in the DAW, merely control data so any inserted compression remains in balance on the audio fader. Was definately a big thing for me- don't want to be having to change my compresser every time I automate a console ride!

Does mean having an extra 16 tracks up in the daw, but can always disable voices in le systems or hide them in the DAW when you don't need to see the automation data

Andy

[AudioWarehouse]

Originally Posted by JustinAiken

I think some of The Smiths was done on an Audient... and I like to thing I've done some okay things on a 8024.

Audient was formed in 1997 !

However Stephen Street, who recorded some Smiths and worked with Morrissey owns one as does Cenzo Townshend.

[AudioWarehouse]

Originally Posted by Brad McGowan

I

It would be great to see energy being put into optimizing design for manufacturing and streamlining development and production costs. That will ultimately translate to reduced costs for both manufacturer and consumer. When people at the bottom of the food chain can afford to use such a product then we call that progress.

I think that's what Audient (Zen,Sumo, Centro ASP008 etc are effectively 'parts' of the BIG console) have been doing.
SSL with the Duality downwards have been doing the same.

However there is a line which when crossed cuts into sonic quality - I personally prefer keeping quality and loosing features.

But I suspect a lot guys love to 'play' at engineering - so lots of features at a cheap price and a lower quality will, unfortunately still have a place in the market.

[Ozzy]

Looks like 2009/2010 will be the year(s) companies start recognizing hyrid workflow. thumbsup

Looks like a great product, but I have to say I was a little disapointed when i read the price. I was hoping for £7,500 all in, but I understand you pay for quality.

I look foward to hearing more about this.

Oz

[voiceactor]

I'm told there has been a price change on this unit...it is much more reasonable from what I understand. Maybe Steve will chime in with it.
PEACE!

[Brad McGowan]

That's great news! I'm guessing it will be announced within the next few days?

Brad

[Brad McGowan]

Originally Posted by Ozzy

Looks like 2009/2010 will be the year(s) companies start recognizing hyrid workflow. thumbsup

Looks like a great product, but I have to say I was a little disapointed when i read the price. I was hoping for £7,500 all in, but I understand you pay for quality.

And dealer mark-up...

Brad

[LNerell]

Originally Posted by steve_flower

Next we have the mono auxes. There are 2 aux pots which can route to 4 aux sends (1 or 3, 2 or 4). Pre/Post switchable so can be used for extra h/phone mixes when tracking.

So to respond to Brad McGowan you have 8 available auxes for Hearback/Aviom like systems.

So I have to ask, can I access all 4 mono auxes on each channel at the same time or is this not possible? I assume the cue sends are only pre fader and not switchable to post since you did not mention this.

[ORGANIK]

so how much LOL

[dimme3]

Originally Posted by voiceactor

I'm told there has been a price change on this unit...it is much more reasonable from what I understand. Maybe Steve will chime in with it.
PEACE!

O RLY?
let's hope for it, then i'll buy one too.

[TheBoss]

Originally Posted by Brad McGowan

So we're talking $10k USD without automation huh?

Doesn't the A&H Zed R16 offer a very competitive feature set with DAW control, 16 channel firewire, and EQ for $3k?

This seems like the type of product that would target the needs of a lot of project studio DAW users, however the pricing seems pretty far out of line with that audience. Maybe I'm misinterpreting the intended user or I'm just cheap? No wait...we're just in a recession.

Brad

The hybrid market just got started. I am sorry to say but these prices are just shocking at this point knowing how many new hybrids are in the works being they are project studios. I think by the end of the year Euphonix, will really surprise us all with their new series. First of all for it to be hybrid we need to start seeing some touch screen technologies like the Tango and artist Series and MC pro with decent pres or else price them so we can use our own pres. Yes they are mainly controllers but with so much digital technology that is the future.

With major studios closing on daily basis its a bit discouraging for someone to put this kind of money into any kind of gear in these prices. Technology will get better and cheaper by the end of this year, perhaps NAMM 2010 we will see some real decent product/pricing.

Anyone who thinks prices like these are acceptable I would be a bit concerned if they are not competitors to persuade you to price so high so they can take market share. This happens all the time in real world by distributors, competitors and dealers who have major inventory. I would be cautious how you price a product! Unless you really need a solution like this, I would seriously think about putting money until next year or even end of this year because this recession imo is going to get worse before it gets better.

[Lunatic]

I originally thought the pricing was workable until I realized I'd want the 32 channel version with automation and pres. At that price point it makes real good sense to shop around in the used, as well as new, market. A person should do that anyway though

[sirthought]

Well I'm glad I wasn't the only one who had an issue with the price.
It's just too expensive IMO for the amount of functionality you get out of this.

I will be interested to see where this new hybrid market goes. I am cheap, especially these days. Maybe I'll find issue with the price of all the gear, but I'm guessing someone is going to find that right mix of quality/price that will take off and sell a ton.

[Brad McGowan]

If you think the Audient offering is a little expensive for the given feature set, then wait until you see the new SSL X-Desk. Talk about brand name premium...

Brad

[Benmrx]

A word to designers, developers, manufacturers, etc.

You're NOT going to target the main DAW market with ANYTHING that costs over $8K or so, and that's at the very top. That's just the way it is for the most part. Anything costing over that should probably NOT be marketed to "project studios" or the like. That term has changed dramatically over the past few years. This console is priced (IMO) for the modern commercial facility that's most likely got a full blown PTHD system, where they're either gonna go for this or a Digidesign C24. Those products aren't marketed to "project studios". The Command 8 is though.

This will be more in competition with the SSL Matrix probably than anything else,.......something tells me the Matrix will win.

Even my place with a Neotek IIIC, 2" Tape machine, Quad Eight Sidecar and a pretty decent (if I do say so myself) rack of gear can't afford this, at least not for what it offers. I sure hope you know who you're marketing too.

I really won't be surprised at all if Mackie (did they survive btw?), corners this market in the same way their original 24x8 console did for "project studios".

Just my brash (quitting smoking and easily irritated) opinion.

[Coyoteous]

Originally Posted by Brad McGowan

If you think the Audient offering is a little expensive for the given feature set, then wait until you see the new SSL X-Desk. Talk about brand name premium...

Brad

Here we go again...

Sure, there is a brand name premium, but SuperAnalogue quality is real. The closest I can equate it to with direct ownership experience is when I had one of the original CAD consoles... DC servo throughout. I still remember how it sounded... or didn't sound, but it was plagued with build issues and I eventually sent it back. Many years later, I still miss it.

SSL knows what they are doing, both electronically and mechanically. I was watching a Science Channel "How Things are Made" (or something like that) about pipe organs. At the end, they did a full tracking shot around an organ before it was about to be broken down for shipping. The last image was the electronics rack bearing the name "Solid State Logic Digital Systems MultiLevel Capture System."

Anyway, there's more to that story, but this is an Audient thread. We in the US pay a premium for British gear, in part because of the weak dollar to pound. SSL has become very competitive, though this is still a factor. If you do a straight conversion of what you'd pay even with VAT in the UK to USD, the actual US price is higher for AMS/Neve, Audient, SSL, etc. It does cost money to import.

This margin varies quite a bit. An Audient Mico is $580 (inc VAT) at DV247 and until recently was $1100 from US vendors. I just noticed it has come down to $700. That's now more like the current SSL US/UK difference. If I had any money left, I'd buy one in a heartbeat. I was interested in Audient Black modules before I started up with X-Rack gear. I think Black modules have come down to $450 or so.

Bottomline, IMO: SSL SuperAnalogue = good sound, build and function. Good British goods cost more in the US than they do in the UK, but the margin is closing. We don't have an American equivalent of SSL. Some might argue a rough equivalence between API and Neve. We also have lots of cool boutique manufacturers in the US.

Anyway, I think I'm rambling and it would take at least another paragragh to take this home, so I'll stop now.

Oh, and I like Audient, too.

[leolycra]

..exactly what i feel. Why somebody finally don't make "perfect" console for DAW?
This product with EQ would be first..

[degas]

I would like a board like this, with EQ, without pre amps (or optional), total recall (motorization is not necessary), without (or optional) transport.

A nice, DAW-friendly mixing desk.

And I would like it cheap!

[seventn]

Price seems a little high for me. I know I will get flamed for this but I think an 02R96 has great flexibilty, automation etc etc and if you use your own converters anyway... I've gotten amazing mixes on one. So Zen at 7gs sure but at 10000+ with automation? hmmm not sure

[dubrichie]

any chance of getting the automation form the Zen in an ACS-8024?

just the faders and mutes would be great.

how much would this add to the cost of an ACS-8024?

thanks,

[Stiff]

I love the FEEL of this. It's built like the real deal (much better than the X-Desk IMO). Wonder about the sound though... Being Audient I suppose... eh... clean?

[Coyoteous]

Originally Posted by Stiff

I love the FEEL of this. It's built like the real deal (much better than the X-Desk IMO). Wonder about the sound though... Being Audient I suppose... eh... clean?

Okay, I seem to be following you following me (Genesis, anyone? ;-). What, in your opinion, is inferior about X-Desk build/feel compared to the Zen? Go easy, I have an X-Desk on order... and aren't we somewhat comparing apples and oranges, even at cost per channel?

[subatomicpieces]

Originally Posted by Stiff

I love the FEEL of this. It's built like the real deal (much better than the X-Desk IMO). Wonder about the sound though... Being Audient I suppose... eh... clean?

So, you've FELT it, but you haven't heard it?

[Stiff]

Originally Posted by Coyoteous

Okay, I seem to be following you following me (Genesis, anyone? ;-). What, in your opinion, is inferior about X-Desk build/feel compared to the Zen? Go easy, I have an X-Desk on order... and aren't we somewhat comparing apples and oranges, even at cost per channel?

I stalk you

I think every single part felt better, the faders, the knobs, everything. I wouldn't say it's a case of apples and oranges... would you? But yes, I do understand there's a price difference. SSL obviously went to great lengths to cut costs, which isn't a bad thing in itself. Now regular mortals can afford something with the SSL brand on it that hopefully sounds SSL.

Can't wait to try the X-Desk myself btw...

[Coyoteous]

Originally Posted by Stiff

I stalk you

I think every single part felt better, the faders, the knobs, everything. I wouldn't say it's a case of apples and oranges... would you? But yes, I do understand there's a price difference. SSL obviously went to great lengths to cut costs, which isn't a bad thing in itself. Now regular mortals can afford something with the SSL brand on it that hopefully sounds SSL.

Can't wait to try the X-Desk myself btw...

That's fair enough... and yes, fader vs. fader, etc. is a good comparison. The steel chassis build is obviously a new direction for SSL. I don't think that's how the Matrix is, is it? The X-Desk looks like auto-finish type paint with silkscreen, where my X-Rack modules are no doubt aluminum with maybe powder coat (just guessing about the finishes).

Anyway, the X-Desk does look kind of cheap in some of the snapshots I've seen... looks great to me in their pro photos. I believe it has the same knobs as the Matrix, which seem to be bigger and possibly less expensive than the other SuperAnalogue gear. I'm making a distinction here between pots and knobs. Potentiometer feel and performance is a big subject.

That's probably just about enough SSL in an Audient thread. If Audient had a smaller version closer to the overall size and function of the X-Desk, I'd be directly interested in it. Oh, BTW... I read about both in your blog and watched the videos - thanks! It was cool to see Steve Flower... Hi Steve! Lastly, on the X-Desk: it is SuperAnalogue inside, even if it looks and feels Alpha Analogue on the outside.

- back to Audient: I still want a Mico or some Black series modules!

[Tom H]

Originally Posted by Stiff

I love the FEEL of this. It's built like the real deal

I am not surprised, Audient have been creating some really amazing gear at exactly the right pricepoint.

Thanks for this vid btw, hope you don't mind me posting this...

YouTube - Audient Zen


Just look at it, what an amazing studio centre piece this is. thumbsup

[indie]

thumbsup

Originally Posted by Benmrx

A word to designers, developers, manufacturers, etc.

You're NOT going to target the main DAW market with ANYTHING that costs over $8K or so, and that's at the very top. That's just the way it is for the most part. Anything costing over that should probably NOT be marketed to "project studios" or the like. That term has changed dramatically over the past few years. This console is priced (IMO) for the modern commercial facility that's most likely got a full blown PTHD system, where they're either gonna go for this or a Digidesign C24. Those products aren't marketed to "project studios". The Command 8 is though.

This will be more in competition with the SSL Matrix probably than anything else,.......something tells me the Matrix will win.

Even my place with a Neotek IIIC, 2" Tape machine, Quad Eight Sidecar and a pretty decent (if I do say so myself) rack of gear can't afford this, at least not for what it offers. I sure hope you know who you're marketing too.

I really won't be surprised at all if Mackie (did they survive btw?), corners this market in the same way their original 24x8 console did for "project studios".

Just my brash (quitting smoking and easily irritated) opinion.

[Ozzy]

Gary Robson from SCV sent me a link to this...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9ZmpPM2f3vs

Oz

[salomonander]

i just checked out the specs..... i don't get this thing. sorry.
so there is automation but no recall? they should have implemented some kind of total recall via USB. basically just saving the settings for the aux, pan etc...
i do not get the point of having moving faders but no recall for the 4 aux sends, pan etc......for over 10.000E. doesnt make sense at all.
i'd rather spend 4 more grand and get the matrix that does the job properly.