Audient Zen - High Resolution Analogue Console

[rolandman]

I'm confused. Does this act as an interface? How does it connect with the computer? USB? Firewire?

[gollumsluvslave]

I'm confused. Does this act as an interface? How does it connect with the computer? USB? Firewire?

It doesn't in terms of audio interface. It's a stand alone analogue console, that will only have a HUI connection to your DAW via MIDI/USB for automation only.

You will need 16/32 channels of separate AD/DA conversion to get the most out of this console, depending on which model you opt for.

I'd probably be looking at the SSL Alpha Link MADI AX for the 16 channel model - an extra 8 channels of conversion would be useful.

[acca]

Hi Steve,

this console has a great deal of features, but having to use lots of cabling harness to put all I/Os on a separate patchbay will be very disappointing to me. Can you please tell us if there will be a patchbay BTO option or just a version of the Zen with D-Sub/EDAC connectors?

[Faderjockey]

Man!! Have you guys never used a console?

you will have to use cables..the bigger the mixer the more cables.

If it seems like a hassle then just use your AD/DA for inserts and mix itb.
For the guys who what to be OTB and still use hardware seems like a neat mixer..

I'd say for me..the only thing I wish would be the fader resolution was better then midi.. I think that is a bigger deal then how much cable is begin used..

But it's not a deal breaker until it heard. Features are nice but I want to hear what it sounds like.. Then sweeten it with features.. I'd like to hear those faders in auto..

But so far the unit looks very nice..
And I already have the SSL Alpha Link...

[acca]

Originally Posted by Faderjockey

Man!! Have you guys never used a console?

you will have to use cables..the bigger the mixer the more cables.

If it seems like a hassle then just use your AD/DA for inserts and mix itb.
For the guys who what to be OTB and still use hardware seems like a neat mixer...

It's not that I don't want cables.
I use consoles every day (MCI, Trident, DDA) and one of the best thing about them is a comprehensive patchbay.
What I do not like is to have to make tie lines with xrls and jacks... It's just a complete waste of time and money. Nowadays pretty much everything with more than 8 channels is on multipin connectors (Neve, Apogee, Lynx, Focusrite, Digidesign...) so I'm wondering if the Zen will follow this trend or not.

So, the point is, will this console feature a patchbay or multipin connectors?

[Faderjockey]

Oh.. You weren't clear.. Gotcha now.

Yeah D-Sub would make it cheaper on build and would be nice.. I doubt they will do patchbay.. or we are getting higher in price.

[TRW]

I can see your point of view, Dsub is a lot cheaper for a fixed install.

However I was very glad when I found out it would be all individual XLR or jack...

It makes it very easy to reconfigure on the spot or integrate with non dsub gear quickly without needing a patchbay if you switch operation around quite a lot. I always have jack and xlr cables around but I always get stuck with that one extra dsub, know what I mean?

If you have to build a patchbay yourself I see Dsub being nice, but I have no issue with soldering up my own if needed.

-T

[androne]

I am confused on the EQ side.

Are there channel EQs or not ??

[Faderjockey]

Originally Posted by TRW

I but I have no issue with soldering up my own if needed.

-T

Me either it's all I do everyday... Well maybe that's a reason not to want to do it.

[acca]

Originally Posted by Faderjockey

Oh.. You weren't clear.. Gotcha now.

Yeah D-Sub would make it cheaper on build and would be nice.. I doubt they will do patchbay.. or we are getting higher in price.

Originally Posted by TRW

I can see your point of view, Dsub is a lot cheaper for a fixed install.

However I was very glad when I found out it would be all individual XLR or jack...

It makes it very easy to reconfigure on the spot or intergrate with non dsub gear quickly without needing a patchbay if you switch operation around quite a lot. I always have jack and xlr cables around but I always get stuck with that one extra dsub, know what I mean?

If you have to build a patchbay yourself I see Dsub being nice, but I have no issue with soldering up my own if needed.

-T

I can see your point too, but to me it's more easy (and faster IMHO) to reconfigure on the spot when I have everything on a patchbay. With a patchbay I can plan a smart normalling of the "standard" signal chain and I can have any of the outputs of my outboard preamps plugged on any line input of the console in a breeze. I suppose it's just a matter of one's personal workflow...
As for the console layout, I just thought that the price tag for this Zen console won't be for home/project studios, so I think that it will likely end up in studios that already have a patchbay. Just my 2 cents.

[Faderjockey]

Originally Posted by androne

I am confused on the EQ side.

Are there channel EQs or not ??

No.. It's a Line mixer. Like a Speck LiLo, SSL Matrix.. That sort of thing. Used for summing and routing.. you add your on comp/eq either software or hardware.

[androne]

Thank you.

It is a shame though it has no firewire or ethernet to carry over the audio through one cable with internal DA's.
Thats one great thing about the AH ZEDR16...

[TEMAS]

Originally Posted by androne

Thank you.

It is a shame though it has no firewire or ethernet to carry over the audio through one cable with internal DA's.
Thats one great thing about the AH ZEDR16...

Audient are providing people with the option of choosing the quality / price range of EQ and DA they wish to match with their mixer, which appeals to me a lot more than that Allen & Heath thing.

[SeanBlack]

Subscribing, This thing is right up my alley!!

[sirthought]

This thing sound great, but I fear it will cost more than I want to spend.

Looking at the ZED R16 now.

[Saudade]

Originally Posted by Faderjockey

No.. It's a Line mixer. Like a Speck LiLo, SSL Matrix.. That sort of thing. Used for summing and routing.. you add your on comp/eq either software or hardware.

My take on the comparisons surfacing so far:

1. SSL Matrix is a powerful analog chain router/recaller + control surface + "superanalog" summing - without converters

2. A & H Zed R-16 is a DAW recording frontend + mixing backend with supposedly good EQs and Pres + converters + FW audio interface built in. Control surface features are basic w/o motorised fader/recall.

3. Audient Zen is a SSL AWS900 / Neve Genesys type of product (albeit with optional pres) without a heavyweight brand name to help them sell it. Methinks the price point would have to hit strategically between the two tiers to create a unique "positioning" /differentiation.


(Lilo is a unique niche purely analog line mixer)

[Brad McGowan]

Originally Posted by TRW

Interesting discussion though Brad! You make some great points, the LM4652 is a nice opamp but would be running at its supply limits in the Zen unless they changed the supply rail structure... not a huge problem but enough of an issue when using proven 10 year old designs to add to the development costs.

Hey Tom,

You make a lot of great points that I understand and totally respect....leveraging existing designs and economies of scale does indeed keep costs down. But let's be transparent. Those kind of decisions are made to maximize profits for the manufacturer, not deliver a better product for the consumer. Just saying...

LME49860, LME49870...22V rails.

Steve-- I have a suggestion that may be worth considering. I think it would be sonically beneficially to consider a more hi-fi part (monolithic or discrete) for the summing busses (master and groups) and the control room monitor output amps. This is a mod that many guys often perform on their consoles (Toft ATB to giant SSL). I think it could be implemented cheaply and with good results (10-20 op amps versus 100's). At a very minimum please consider making these summing amp parts socketed to facilitate ease of upgrade for the user if you decide to stick with the parts you've spec'd out.

Thanks for listening.

Brad

[Lunatic]

Okay...

Is this field serviceable? How easy is it to remove, troubleshoot, and repair a channel? This is very important to us.

[Greggo]

Skip this post if you don't have the patience for newbie BS questions...

But in all honesty, this console sounds pretty cool for someone wanting to either get into the commercial studio business or set up a really serious project studio. I have no experience with either, but I do have plans for a house with a serious project studio built in and though I don't have much of a gear collection I am going to jump right in at some point soon with a serious purchase.

How would you compare the pros/cons of something like this Zen with a different path such as the Euphonix MC Control and Mix plus a summing box? It seems to me like the Zen is more for folks with a decent outbard rack or two that want to leverage it more fully along side the DAW, where the euphonix path and summing box would be for folks who want to stay ITB until the very last stage and will still use mostly plug ins. Am I slowly catching on here or still sounding clueless?

If I am right, then besides well treated rooms, monitoring systems, instruments and microphones, what would a "Zen like" minimalist studio set up look like with one of these new Audient consoles as the centerpiece? Obviously there is the DAW and the A/D plus D/A and routing/patching issues.... but given what you pros know about the mix bus compressor and the sends/auxes etc.. what would a decent quality (not ultimate, but solid, like an API or Great River pre) rack look like to leverage the intent of this console while still doing a fair amount of things ITB since it is obviously intended to pair up with a DAW? My inclination would be to still leverage the DAW for more than just digital tracks, maybe virtual instruments, midi management of analog synths plugged into the Zen's line inputs, and then some reverb and eq in the box with maybe a little real hardware pieces to offer a different flavor OTB... Just fishing for ideas here as I am building some gear lists for a roughly 40-50k purchase at some point to create a studio from scratch (a very serious hobby for me, and no, I am not one of the super rich dudes just having fun, willing to sacrifice in other areas to make this a new part of my life).

Thanks for any ideas and observations about what should surround and support an interesting new piece of gear such as this Zen console.

Regards,

Greg Jensen

[TRW]

Originally Posted by Brad McGowan

But let's be transparent. Those kind of decisions are made to maximize profits for the manufacturer, not deliver a better product for the consumer. Just saying...

Actually the kinds of profits these type of companies make, I'd say it wasn't about profit, nor delivering a better product, but about delivery of a product to market... something not always possible if you up the cost.

Most proaudio companies aren't making much profit, they make enough to pay salary and have a xmas dinner once a year. Pushing the price up on expensive parts would have dropped some of the feature set and it may never have made it to market in the form you see now or maybe even a year later down the road...

LME49860, LME49870...22V rails.

Again really nice parts too, but these would have required a PSU upgrade IMO if used anything but sparingly in key areas as far as I can tell. There are several really nice opamps that run on higher rails, OP275, OPA2604, some of the Linear chips are good...

Steve-- I have a suggestion that may be worth considering. I think it would be sonically beneficially to consider a more hi-fi part (monolithic or discrete) for the summing busses (master and groups) and the control room monitor output amps.

This is something me and Steve talked about a while ago, and I have still been pestering him to do the Hardy 990C mod to the bus amps, I believe there may be space in there... Steve?! LOL

-Tom

[TRW]

Originally Posted by Greggo

How would you compare the pros/cons of something like this Zen with a different path such as the Euphonix MC Control and Mix plus a summing box?

Massive to me. The Zen is a console and allows you to route like you would on a larger board. This is the number one reason to have one IMO above a summing box.

Automation post compression insert is huge for many mixers.

The integrated cue mixing and talkback and decent monitor section is great too, most summing boxes lack this, so you would either need to do it ITB or use another box...

Integration is where its at with a product like this one.
-T

[steve_flower]

Originally Posted by sonicdefault

Will this have a digital input option? I may have overlooked it, but I didn't see any mention of one.

No, all DA conversion will be external to Zen. We think most people interested in Zen will want to also pick their own converters.

[steve_flower]

Originally Posted by acca

Hi Steve,

this console has a great deal of features, but having to use lots of cabling harness to put all I/Os on a separate patchbay will be very disappointing to me. Can you please tell us if there will be a patchbay BTO option or just a version of the Zen with D-Sub/EDAC connectors?

A patch bay version has not been planned, but if the demand is there for it we would look into it.

[steve_flower]

Originally Posted by Lunatic

Okay...

Is this field serviceable? How easy is it to remove, troubleshoot, and repair a channel? This is very important to us.

Yes, it is field serviceable by a good tech. The whole front panel is hinged at the back (no connectors need to be unplugged). Once inside the pots and switches and Meters are on a board shared with between the 16 channels, but most of the electronics are on channel sub-boards that plug-in to the main (pot+switch) board.

[Wiggy Neve Slut]

Originally Posted by TRW

and I have still been pestering him to do the Hardy 990C mod to the bus amps, I believe there may be space in there... Steve?! LOL

990 please..... im mostly interested in a kik ass master buss with width, depth and seraration and HEADROOM. If i want colour i can think of a million ways to add it on with neve 1271 and Telefunken line drivers etc.

Getting more and more interested... Patchbay is no deal breaker to me as I will just get a DB25-TRS one and sorted.

Wiggy

[andydeckstrous]

990's would be a great addition- a very shiny cherry on a very tasty cake!

[gollumsluvslave]

How would you compare the pros/cons of something like this Zen with a different path such as the Euphonix MC Control and Mix plus a summing box? It seems to me like the Zen is more for folks with a decent outbard rack or two that want to leverage it more fully along side the DAW, where the euphonix path and summing box would be for folks who want to stay ITB until the very last stage and will still use mostly plug ins. Am I slowly catching on here or still sounding clueless?

Not clueless at all - I think you are wise to focus on how you would actually be working based on the equipment you have.

If you use plugs and have very little outboard, then I can understand why you might be dubious about the Zen.

I don't have a tremendous amount of outboard either, however where the Zen is a win for me is in terms of workflow - switch off the monitors and just mix. Now lack of EQ is a bit of a stumbling block for me in this - EQ is probably the biggest issue in terms of DAW plugs - I still don't like digital EQ, and any kind of controller such as MCU etc does not give me the kind of ability to mix in EQ sweet spots that an inline EQ on an analogue console gives.

However, with the Zen it allows you to utilise your own flavours of EQ that you can build up over time - this is definitely a long-term plus over something like the A&H Zed R16, as eventually my EQ channels will likely be swapped out for other EQs in a side rack or similar.


However, you still have the bility to utilise whatever plugins you have on your DAW, and use Zen for summing and routing.

I don't think anyone would ever use a summing mixer as the centre piece of their studio, that they base all their workflow around - this is the key appeal of the Zen IMO.

If I bought the Zen I could sell a large amount of kit that would be rendered obsolete - Central Station, MCU and other parts as well.

TRW:-

Integration is where its at with a product like this one.

QFT +1

[zimv20]

Originally Posted by steve_flower

A patch bay version has not been planned, but if the demand is there for it we would look into it.

+1 on having db25 connectors for most things. the db25 patchbays seem to be getting more popular.

[Lunatic]

Originally Posted by steve_flower

Yes, it is field serviceable by a good tech. The whole front panel is hinged at the back (no connectors need to be unplugged). Once inside the pots and switches and Meters are on a board shared with between the 16 channels, but most of the electronics are on channel sub-boards that plug-in to the main (pot+switch) board.

Hmm... we don't have a good tech... we have a GREAT tech

Sounds well thought out. Any chance of a photo of the guts to get a better idea about field servicing the unit?

[Magnus]

Originally Posted by andydeckstrous

990's would be a great addition- a very shiny cherry on a very tasty cake!

Yes, this would be great and personally I would gladly pay extra for this!