ever recorded a drummer who plays their ride on the same side as their hats?

[DGrimmett]

Got a day session friday. From seeing this group live, I remember noticing that the drummer plays his ride on the same side of his hats. Anyone come across tracking this before? Im sure he could throw it on the other side, just for the recording. But I'd rather have him play with his usual set up, and also its sort of cool and out of the ordinary.

How would you approach this?

[staudio]

I've done a few session with drum setups like this, mostly jazz and some harder stuff. There is nothing really different in my approach, just make the drums sound good.

[Quint]

Originally Posted by scram_chops

Got a day session friday. From seeing this group live, I remember noticing that the drummer plays his ride on the same side of his hats. Anyone come across tracking this before? Im sure he could throw it on the other side, just for the recording. But I'd rather have him play with his usual set up, and also its sort of cool and out of the ordinary.

How would you approach this?

This is actually how I play drums as well because I don't play with my hands crossed and play the snare with my right hand. Whenever I record myself, I really don't do anything differently. However, I go for a minimal mic approach (Glynn John's or Recorderman) so the ride being on the right or left really doesn't affect my mic placement because it ends up being about the same distance from the left OH as it would be from the right OH if I played in a more standard fashion.

Really, even if you use a standard OH and close micing setup, I don't think you should have to change much unless the ride being on the left makes you feel like things aren't right in the stereo world or something. Still, the drummer should play however they're comfortable. Just let him play like he normally does and mic it the same as you always would.

[china jam]

Originally Posted by scram_chops

Got a day session friday. From seeing this group live, I remember noticing that the drummer plays his ride on the same side of his hats. Anyone come across tracking this before? Im sure he could throw it on the other side, just for the recording. But I'd rather have him play with his usual set up, and also its sort of cool and out of the ordinary.

How would you approach this?

Why do the ride and hi-hats HAVE to be on separate sides for recording?? That doesn't make any sense.

Leave the drummer set up how he's comfortable, he'll appreciate it.

[liquidtension47]

here is a cool reference. seems like everything is mic'd just the same as always...





pretty cool tune too, i love those guys.

[rockdrummer027]

Originally Posted by scram_chops

Im sure he could throw it on the other side, just for the recording.

DO NOT make the drummer move his ride cymbal. I play open handed with the ride on the left and while I can play plenty of grooves ambidextrously, there are also plenty of grooves that wouldn't sound nearly as tight or even the same with my right hand on the ride.

Getting a good performance out of the musician takes priority over having the hi-hat panned left and the ride panned right. Its really not a big deal in the scheme of things and won't screw up the stereo imaging of the drumset in the recording.

What is the instrumentation of the band? If there are two guitars, I tend to pan the lead guitar to the right so the rhythm guitar is with the hi-hat/ride leaving more space for the lead. Having the ride on the left actually works to my advantage here.

[dudge]

I record drums like this all the time. That's how I play the drums. I'm left handed but don't reverse the kit, just the ride. Mic as usual.

Playing like this has been a major bonus when sitting in on someone else's kit at a gig or festival as they are always right handed. I just switch the ride over to the left stand.

[analogtodd]

DO NOT make the drummer change his playing style. You are just there to record what he's doing. Its never going to be a perfect stereo image.

Loads of metal guys actually use TWO hi-hats, one on the left and one on the right!!!

[Chrisc_o]

I also work with a drummer with an open playing style (right-handed but arms un-crossed, shout out to TdvdV in case you are reading this ).

I just respect the natural stereo spread of the kit and let the drummer do what he does best. IMO if it becomes a problem in the final mix you are probably doing something wrong.

[DGrimmett]

Right on everyone, thanks for the replies.

Yea I have no intention of wanting to change his
set up. Id much rather try something new, (on my end) anyway.

And yea im def. not saying the ride HAS to be on the opposite side
of the hats.

I almost feel it deserves something besides a standard overhead config.

hmmm...


thanks again!

[soundsundergroun]

this is what happens when you learn bad technique early on as a drummer and you're forced to live with it.

[analogtodd]

Give yourself some mic'ing options. Do a nice LDC mono overhead, conventional sdc stereo set and if its a good room, a couple sets of decent room pairs

[Infernal Device]

Let him do what he does. Nobody will die from recording him that way.

I *wish* more drummers did this instead of having the ride 3 inches from the floor tom and dealing with the bleed.

You are lucky. Post a clip when done!

[Quint]

Originally Posted by soundsundergroun

this is what happens when you learn bad technique early on as a drummer and you're forced to live with it.

Not necessarily. There ARE advantages and disadvantages to both styles.

[dudge]

Originally Posted by soundsundergroun

this is what happens when you learn bad technique early on as a drummer and you're forced to live with it.

This is a ridiculous statement. Billy Cobham, Carter Beuford, Simon Phillips, etc.
have bad technique??? This technique opens up a lot of possibilities with the right hand while the left is keeping time on the ride or hats.

So Hendrix must have had bad technique because he turned his guitar upside down???

Jeff Healey must have had bad technique because he played the guitar in his lap with his left hand on top of the neck????

Stanley Jordan must have bad technique because he uses both hands on the neck???

Come on!!!

[jchadstopherhuez]

mono.

or stereo...and deal with the ride being on the same side of the stereo field as the hats.

best,

jchristopherhughes

[liquidtension47]

Originally Posted by dudge

This is a ridiculous statement. Billy Cobham, Carter Beuford, Simon Phillips, etc.
have bad technique??? This technique opens up a lot of possibilities with the right hand while the left is keeping time on the ride or hats.

So Hendrix must have had bad technique because he turned his guitar upside down???

Jeff Healey must have had bad technique because he played the guitar in his lap with his left hand on top of the neck????

Stanley Jordan must have bad technique because he uses both hands on the neck???

Come on!!!

i was hopin someone would jump on this... i didnt want to

but from what i have experienced with drummers is that those who can play open-handed or are ambidextrous arent limited to having an arm stuck down by the snare when doing any hat work, thus giving them a little more freedom. just look at what carter does in my post above!

if i were a drummer, id go open handed.

[stagefright13]

Never personally recorded or even seen someone have the main ride on that side. But have done a ride on both sides for easy drummer access. And is all about the drummers style and comfort.

Band I am doing now had the ride about an inch or less floating above the floor tom. But never rimmed it in 15 songs. But nailed a very cool clocky chime sound every time he rode that bell.

Let the drummer be... It's all about mic positions.

John

[Quint]

Originally Posted by liquidtension47

i was hopin someone would jump on this... i didnt want to

but from what i have experienced with drummers is that those who can play open-handed or are ambidextrous arent limited to having an arm stuck down by the snare when doing any hat work, thus giving them a little more freedom. just look at what carter does in my post above!

if i were a drummer, id go open handed.

exactly

[dudge]

Originally Posted by liquidtension47

i was hopin someone would jump on this... i didnt want to

but from what i have experienced with drummers is that those who can play open-handed or are ambidextrous arent limited to having an arm stuck down by the snare when doing any hat work, thus giving them a little more freedom. just look at what carter does in my post above!

if i were a drummer, id go open handed.

Well I guess I had to open my big mouth cause I'm one of those guys who's been doing it wrong for 32 years.

[travisbrown]

I know lots of drummers who play with the ride over the hats. Usually they have more than one ride, with another over where you'd expect for a typical setup.

It's more common in jazz where they might be playing lead lines on the ride. I've had a couple better-than-me drummers suggest I put my ride above the hats to help develop my left hand, which is noticeably more clumsy than the right.

Mic as normal. Nothing difficult about it.

[DesertDawg]

Originally Posted by dudge

This is a ridiculous statement. Billy Cobham, Carter Beuford, Simon Phillips, etc.
have bad technique???

Exactly what I thought when I first saw the statement you refer to - so since I couldn't be the first to respond, I'll just post a link to my favorite Simon Phillips track... you can see his "bad technique" on the ride first emerge at about 1:16 into the clip:


YouTube - Pete Townshend-Give Blood

tutt Bad Simon - you should learn how to play better.

And yeah, I've recorded at least one guy that I can remember that had his ride set up this way - wasn't a problem in any manner, shape, or form. To the OP: Mic it separately if you're not comfortable, or even the least bit uncertain, with your OH placement choices in this type of setup... if for no other reason than the fact that even if you just use that separate ride mic for a very low-level imaging/positioning control, it'll give you an additional option at mixdown time.

[stagefright13]

I see no problems miking it either way. I had no problem miking the floor tom even tho most of it was covered with the ride. Still got a slap happy deep pound out of it from the close mike. And not much ride even before I gated it.

Let the drummer be! And mike him up. He will be happy and send cell phone pics home to MA..... Of Miked drums.

Sometimes things are different. You will adapt. And find it wasn't so hard!

Once you spend the day getting a drum sound you will find mic positions and be happy. You could put the ride on the ceiling and be happy.

John

[Etch-A-Sketch]

I've recorded a few drummers that setup this way. One thing I notice is the sound throughout 3 or 4 songs can start to feel like the mix is a little right heavy, especially in rock. It really depends on how far to the right the ride is. Some guys like it a little more outside the hihat for doing the two handed hat/ride thing... other guys like it closer to the hi tom.

If the ride and hat sound like they are in the same spot in the overheads, put a spot mic on the Ride, you can pan it closer to the center so the ride and hihat don't feel like they are right on top of each other in the stereo image... or you can pull the hihat mic in a little bit on a few of the songs and forget the spot mic. Or, as someone else mentioned you can setup a mono overhead as well and use that on a couple songs. Or you can do an XY or ORTF type overhead pair instead of a spaced A/B pair.

There's lots of options. Just listen to what your getting and adjust from there.

[stagefright13]

Yeah just move the mics accordingly

[VigilantSound]

I did not read everyones post so someone might have suggested this.

You could mic it how you usually do but when you mix it do your panning as the "Drummers Perspective" style this will place the ride on the left side of the stereo field, and possibly make it seem as if its set up like a regular kit.

I like panning with the "Drummers Perspective" It makes playing air drums in the car feel totally realistic!

[uncle duncan]

Ride over the hi-hat? Isn't that illegal in Utah?

[swaff]

Just pan all his drums hard left and all the music hard right, then you won't be bothered by the hats and ride in the same stereo field.

Swaff

[evident]

have you heard of carter beauford?

[liquidtension47]

Originally Posted by evident

have you heard of carter beauford?

See my first post, please.