Zoom H4n! Recording 4 tracks simultaneously!

[cartrouble]

Originally Posted by piotr

Hi cartrouble,

Can you clarify:

How do you go about updating the firmware?
And more precisely: which version has the additional gain settings?

Sincerely,
p.

Download Software

I'm not sure exactly which firmware update adds the additional gain settings. I would suggest just updating to the latest, however there's also a version history on that page.

[Stefbossa]

Hi!

Does anyone know if we can use the 1/8 aux mic input (in the back) as a stereo line input?

I would like to record 4 line tracks at the same time.

[Izzi]

Originally Posted by SoundUniverse

I had just written this little tune in my living room and wanted to capture the idea so I placed the H4n on a stack of coasters (in stereo mode) on my coffee table hit record and played my Gibson acoustic and sang it. Here it is raw and blemished but it was so easy and fairly articulate for the built in mics.

Great Track!!!

[scredly]

I love my H4n too. I use 4CH mode often for live recordings. I take vocal only and instruments only sub-group outs to feed the line inputs and align with the mic tracks in Reaper or StudioOne.

It is an extra step to separate the stereo track to two-mono. Maybe this could be changed in a future firmware update? It's easy to split them in Sound Forge.

I'll test the 1/8" line input when I have a chance next week.

Clip of mixed 4CH recording of live band: http://www.scredco.com/mp3/band_clip.wav (client wanted the vocals up, gtrs were too loud in the room, thus not in the live mix. that's why room mics are up a bit. )

and another from an opera benefit: http://www.scredco.com/mp3/zoom_opera.mp3

Zoom H4n, mics only, on a little tripod, on a table, in a booth down the pub @20ft from band w/small vocal PA. Don't think I did anything but convert to mp3. 80Hz HPF and Concert limiter engaged as I recall.

http://www.scredco.com/mp3/zoom_mics.mp3

These are recordings I give away. I don't agonise over the mixes. A quick once over and out they go...

Oh, here's a location recording of 4JULY fireworks. (mics only) good sub action.
http://www.scredco.com/mp3/FW.wav

This thing is so much fun!

[voidar]

Originally Posted by piotr

So, no real bypass?

In the manual they mention "line input", but there isn't a very detailed information on this.

Did anyone actually try using the H4n with external preamp?

I wonder how it would play with the Sound Devices MixPre...

p.

Sorry for my late reply.

Think of it as a gain factor. 1 = no gain. But no, you will always be hitting the h4n analog.

External pre's definitely help. The onboards are horribly noisy.

[piotr]

Originally Posted by voidar

Sorry for my late reply.

Think of it as a gain factor. 1 = no gain. But no, you will always be hitting the h4n analog.

External pre's definitely help. The onboards are horribly noisy.

Hi,

Thanks for the reply.

I have a DAV BG1 coming in next week, so will try it with the external pre. We'll see what the difference is.

p.

[voidar]

Originally Posted by Stefbossa

Hi!

Does anyone know if we can use the 1/8 aux mic input (in the back) as a stereo line input?

I would like to record 4 line tracks at the same time.

I would like to know this too.

My guess is it would be ok. It's powered (phantom powered), but I doubt it will ruin anything.

[fragletrollet]

Anyone can recommend a quality preamp that can be powered off batteries for field use with H4N?

[piotr]

Originally Posted by fragletrollet

Anyone can recommend a quality preamp that can be powered off batteries for field use with H4N?

This is probably one of the best solutions available at a, relatively speaking, reasonable price.

p.

[voidar]

Well, line-in to ext. mic worked. Just had a session yesterday.

Ended up with the apogee mini me 1/8 phones output into the ext. mic (for "underheads"). and kick trigger and snare into the XLRs. Came out pretty cool at mixdown.

Could perhaps post a clip if interested.

[perform/record]

hello,
a friend has allowed me to borrow this unit a couple of times to record cover band rehearsals (classic rock). we jam in a small room and no matter how we try, it always gets loud... (haha, you know how it is ). this unit records well just putting it in the middle of the room. i would suggest not putting it closest to the drum kit. it really captures drums well and they can dominate the recording. some experimenting with record levels is necessary. less is more especially if it's loud. leave some headroom. i experimented w/ auto level... mixed results. if a song starts out mellow, and the unit sets it's level to that, when the band kicks in so does the limiter... squash!. it's better to set the level on your own if you can. we are preparing to use the unit in 4 channel mode soon to capture a better live recording of the band. my approach is to use the built in mic's on the drum kit and two other mic's with external pre's on the bass cab and guitar cab. the voc's will be dubbed along with keys and any necessary perc after the sd card is imported to sonar. any suggestions? also, about splitting the stereo tracks, if the built-ins are on 1 and 2 that's fine, they can stay together cause they'll be the drums, but i plan to and am assuming (uh-oh) that i can separate the bass and guitar on 3 and 4. i can do that in the computer can't i? (please say yes).
thanks,
p/r = matthew

[voidar]

Yes, you can separate 3&4 in the computer. In 4chan mode the stereo files have L and M suffixes.

[perform/record]

Originally Posted by voidar

Yes, you can separate 3&4 in the computer. In 4chan mode the stereo files have L and M suffixes.

that's good to know.
thanks.

[MonkeyGuru]

Love this thing, helps me to make demos for further work on the songs.
Here is an example of recording made with it:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rHsorfDTj3A

Nick

[scredly]

Here are the settings for the H4n comps/limiters I received from Zoom:


- COMP1 (GENERAL) Threshold: -48.7dB Ratio: 4:1
- COMP2 (VOCAL) Threshold: -8.4dB Ratio: 16:1
- COMP3 (DRUM) Threshold: -48.2dB Ratio: 3:1

- LIMIT1 (GENERAL) Threshold: -14.4dB Ratio: 60:1
- LIMIT2 (CONCERT) Threshold: -13.8dB Ratio: 32:1
- LIMIT3 (STUDIO) Threshold: -12.0dB Ratio: 8:1

[piotr]

Originally Posted by scredly

Here are the settings for the H4n comps/limiters I received from Zoom:


- COMP1 (GENERAL) Threshold: -48.7dB Ratio: 4:1
- COMP2 (VOCAL) Threshold: -8.4dB Ratio: 16:1
- COMP3 (DRUM) Threshold: -48.2dB Ratio: 3:1

- LIMIT1 (GENERAL) Threshold: -14.4dB Ratio: 60:1
- LIMIT2 (CONCERT) Threshold: -13.8dB Ratio: 32:1
- LIMIT3 (STUDIO) Threshold: -12.0dB Ratio: 8:1

Oh, that's some useful information!
Thanks for sharing!
p.

[tenorsax82]

I have an Microtrack II, I'm considering checking out the H4N because of the option to record the 4 tracks with the internal mics and 2 external mics. I record mostly small group jazz concerts with my Microtrack II, it does a great job, but it's hard to get a decent balance of all the instruments. My thinking is, if I have the Zoom H4N I'll be able to get a better balance. Any thoughts on this? Or maybe I should just stick with the Microtrack II. What are some good external mics to use with the H4N or Microtrack II for live jazz recording - saxophone, piano, bass, drums?

[TechKATG]

FYI - the latest version of H4n firmware (1.7) came out in November '10 and allows setting different recording levels on MIC 1 or 2 via an UNLINK switch in the INPUT menu. Very handy update.

Also FYI - INPUT LEVEL setting less than 1.0 behave like a pad for loud level signals.

I have made many 4 track recordings via the 1/8 mic input on the back. Use a nice stereo preamp or mixer as a front end and you can get some nice clean recordings. At live gigs I'll often grab the mixing board out to the 1/2 MIC INs and some audience mics via external preamp (and a 1/4 - 1/8 cable) to the built-in mic inputs. 4 gig SD card gets 124 minute record time at 44.1/24 bit.

Not bad for a $300 device.

Does anybody know how the phantom power works on the external mic-in jack? Can't find documentation anywhere? Menu choice and manual indicate it is there but not how it works?

[Stefbossa]

Originally Posted by TechKATG

I have made many 4 track recordings via the 1/8 mic input on the back. Use a nice stereo preamp or mixer as a front end and you can get some nice clean recordings. At live gigs I'll often grab the mixing board out to the 1/2 MIC INs and some audience mics via external preamp (and a 1/4 - 1/8 cable) to the built-in mic inputs.

How do you wire your 1/4 to 1/8 cable? Do you use balanced signal or do you have to unbalance the signal in order to get to the 1/8 aux input?

[DonM]

You guys are amazing ....

I have had an H4 and the H4N since they both came out ....

I 'knew' the H4N was capable of 4 Track recording but dismissed it since I 'Thought' it was coupling the external mics with only the internal mics. I never even knew there was an External Mic input on the device to bypass the internal mics - and further to be able to line level into that thing - You guys rock.

Thanks so much!

-D

[voidar]

Originally Posted by TechKATG

Does anybody know how the phantom power works on the external mic-in jack? Can't find documentation anywhere? Menu choice and manual indicate it is there but not how it works?

It's on all the time which is what worrried me at first hooking up a line level signal to it. Though most outputs are DC filtered so it should do no damage.

You can plug one of these 1/8 external condenser to it and the H4N will power it through the jack.

[DonM]

Originally Posted by Stefbossa

How do you wire your 1/4 to 1/8 cable? Do you use balanced signal or do you have to unbalance the signal in order to get to the 1/8 aux input?

Good question ... I have an old Symetric Pre that has UnBal outs and I will just go 1/4" UnBal out split L/R to the 1/8" input and try that.

-D

[TechKATG]

Originally Posted by Stefbossa

How do you wire your 1/4 to 1/8 cable? Do you use balanced signal or do you have to unbalance the signal in order to get to the 1/8 aux input?

I use a standard, good quality right-angle 1/8" ( less stress on jack) -> 1/4" mono x 2 cable to the output of a bluetube preamp. The signal is by deisgn unbalanced so I keep the run from pre->H4 as short as possible (<10 feet). The Bluetube I use outputs bal or unbal depending on wether it sees a mono or stereo 1/4". This method gets the extra mics a nice balanced front end for long runs + phantom. Sounds great!

I've got lots of great comments from a comedy show recording I made with the above set-up. Club 58 went to 1/2 + Studio Projects C4 omni's ceiling hung OH via Presonus Bluetube to external ins. It all fit into 2 small bags, ran (mainly) on batteries and I biked to the club! Delivered the raw tracks on SD card and went on my way. I love the future!

Originally Posted by voidar

You can plug one of these 1/8 external condenser to it and the H4N will power it through the jack.

Never thought of those mics - good to know, thanks!

Originally Posted by DonM

Good question ... I have an old Symetric Pre that has UnBal outs and I will just go 1/4" UnBal out split L/R to the 1/8" input and try that.

Sounds perfect - Best of luck!

PS - the nut on the bottom is the same as those used on photo gear. I mount the H4n on an old camera tripod and have a nice little mobile platform for remote recording small gigs. Also, a Gorilla-pod or other such 3/8" inch gear works well too. And it can also get the built-in mics into a nice position for recording audience tracks. Less rumble/handling noise.

[dgpretzel]

Originally Posted by TechKATG

FYI - the latest version of H4n firmware (1.7) came out in November '10 and allows setting different recording levels on MIC 1 or 2 via an UNLINK switch in the INPUT menu. Very handy update.

Is it possible to set levels of left and right internal mics, independently?

Thank you.

Regards,

DG

[Carlier74]

I used the H4n to record a drum kit this week.

Sample B
I put the recorder itself up above the kit like overheads with one of the limiters on the mics. I ran an AKG D112 into input 1 and an sm57 on the snare into input 2.
I played along to an instrumental (drumless) track run from an old pc. An mp3 player or smartphone would work too.

Sample A
This is a recording without the sm57 on the snare, so just H4n mics as overheads and D112 on the kick (the other input was used to record a guitar amp-you can hear this on the overheads).

Setting the levels for the inputs independently was handy. Setting phantom power independently would be cool too.

[fives]

Originally Posted by voidar

Yes, you can separate 3&4 in the computer. In 4chan mode the stereo files have L and M suffixes.

I am trying to figure out the ins and outs of the H4N, but I have one question about this device... Is there a way to record 4 tracks and then export them via sd card and import them into a protools session and have 4 separate tracks to mix in protools? If so... how do you do this?

I have been able to get a stereo mic1&2 file and a stereo mic3&4 file, but haven't been able to get 4 separate files... any ideas?

THANKS!!!

[vinvanda]

you can seperate the files from stereo to 2 mono in your DAW surely? in cubase it gives you the option when you import each wav file

[fives]

Thanks!!! Great idea.

[braddagz]

FYI - the latest version of H4n firmware (1.7) came out in November '10 and allows setting different recording levels on MIC 1 or 2 via an UNLINK switch in the INPUT menu. Very handy update.

So just to clarify... are you saying this firmware update gives you separate level control of both your external mics?

Because my biggest problem with the H4n was when you tried to use the external mics for two different sources (say, an upright bass track on one and vocal track on the other), you couldn't attenuate or gain them separately. If you attenuated the bass, you simultaneously attenuated the vocal. Has the latest firmware update fixed this?

[VijkTronyk]

Originally Posted by cyjanopan

What bugs me is when you use it as interface you are back to 2track only

Yup, it's a disappointment :(
I was hoping Gearslutz would provide an answer to the question is it possible to use it in interface mode AND do all four channels at a time, but it seems we're out of luck on this one. Those sneaky, tricky Zoom people.