recording acoustic guitar in untreated bedroom. 2 SDC or 1 SDC??

[bchamorro]

I want to record acoustic guitar.
My bedroom is untreated.
Am I better off just using one LDC like a Shure KSM 44?
Or two SDC like Shure SM81 in XY?

Treating the bedroom is not an option.

What I want to record are basic ideas that sound good. Nothing pro, but above average scratch ideas.


My setup:

Apogee Duet + Dynaudio BM5A monitors

[Fran Guidry]

Originally Posted by bchamorro

I want to record acoustic guitar.
My bedroom is untreated.
Am I better off just using one LDC like a Shure KSM 44?
Or two SDC like Shure SM81 in XY?

Based on my experience, you're better off spending your microphone money on room treatment and using a Naiant omni.

Fran

[bchamorro]

hey Fran,

thanks, but room treatment is not an option. can't have padded walls in my bedroom.

[āvetechnation]

don't worry so much about it. experiment with panning and all the microphones ya got! maybe use all three! try the dining room or living room.

[Ludwig]

Originally Posted by bchamorro

hey Fran,

thanks, but room treatment is not an option. can't have padded walls in my bedroom.

Buy some thick duvets and hang them up to create a sort of booth, it will work well.

In regard to your original question in my experience acoustic guitars simply sound BAD in untreated rooms when using condensers...but out of those options I'd go with one LDC...but hey just experiment.

[bchamorro]

when it comes to recording mono acoustic guitar, there is no point in duplicating a mono track and panning them L/R to simulate a stereo setup?

the only way to do this is to use two mics/stereo?

[kozsak]

You will get a more realistic "image" by using 2 mics on the guitar. I use 2 AT 4041's into the Duet to record acoustic geets at home.

Can you hang blankets up temporarily (ie: using mic stands, etc...) to make a booth in your bedroom?

I've also had decent results using a single SM7B in this situation. Less room artifacts, but not as nice a SDC pair.

[shanabit]

The consensus is to go with ONE LDC or TWO SDC's, sounds about right for GS LOL


Depends if the Acoustic is the main instrument or supporting. Does it need to fill up the space or can you spread it out in the mix?

Also, how thick is the instrumentation for the song

[bchamorro]

Originally Posted by kozsak

You will get a more realistic "image" by using 2 mics on the guitar. I use 2 AT 4041's into the Duet to record acoustic geets at home.

Can you hang blankets up temporarily (ie: using mic stands, etc...) to make a booth in your bedroom?

I've also had decent results using a single SM7B in this situation. Less room artifacts, but not as nice a SDC pair.

the blanket and mic stands is a great idea!! I will try that as soon as I get the mics.

I am actually looking into getting the AT 4041 and I also have a Duet.

Would you happen to have any clips of your recordings with the Duet and 4041s?

[bchamorro]

Originally Posted by shanabit

The consensus is to go with ONE LDC or TWO SDC's, sounds about right for GS LOL


Depends if the Acoustic is the main instrument or supporting. Does it need to fill up the space or can you spread it out in the mix?

Also, how thick is the instrumentation for the song

no other instruments.

just 1 guitar, 1 mic, 1 strumming track.

[Ethan Winer]

Originally Posted by bchamorro

room treatment is not an option. can't have padded walls in my bedroom.

So get some blankets as Ludwig suggested, or portable free-standing baffles as shown below.

--Ethan

[recall]

I'm gonna throw a new suggestion out here. I find a decent Dyanmic mic can be a good thing on acoustic guitar in untreated environment.

I really like an old AKG D190 (no one else seems to give this mic love apart from me. A bit smoother up top than a 57)

For me they are invaluable at focusing the sound and rejecting many of the "bad" issues untreated rooms present.

[James_Avery]

If you have to use just one mic then don't duplicate the same part. Record one take, then record another take. Pan one left, the other right. You will get a much more satisfying sound than just duplicating the one take onto another track. Try it the way you originally suggested then try it the way I just suggested and compare the differences. Let me know which you prefer. (I already know your answer though! )

Have fun!

[RCM - Ronan]

Taming down a room with Duvets is a good idea, packing blankets will do a lot and are cheap.

Never underestimate how great a well recorded mono acoustic guitar can sound. (especially if its in a mix with other instruments)

[dougb415]

One of the classes I attended this weekend was "Recording Acoustic Instruments" with Rich Adler. Some of the folks he's recorded include Neil Young, Dolly Parton, Ricky Skaggs, Marty Stuart, Alison Krauss, Johnny Cash, Doc Watson, John Prine, Bela Fleck, Natalie Cole, Sam Bush, Jerry Jeff Walker, Dave Mallet, Shel Silverstein, Iris Dement and John Hartford. He knows what he's talking about.

For acoustic guitar he prefers a pair of SDCs in XY configuration. Since I can't afford a pair of K84s, I'm thinking about a pair of Josephson C-42s in the not-too-distant future.

[Unnatural15]

I record in my bedroom and I do agree with using a dynamic mic if you can't treat your room. The duvet setup will definitely help with early reflections. Try different mics and mic configurations. I have a Martin DC15E that I frequently use because of the on-board electronics. I can just plug into a pre on my interface or even mic it simultaneously. If you like what you hear but not what is being recorded, try to put a mic over your shoulder and see if it picks up what you hear.

[Heartfelt]

Blankets work and if you are a consistent player, you can do dual mono and pan them the same as a stereo setup and it works. People generally can't hear the difference in mine and Puddle of Mud did it very well on drift and die. It is either dual mono or a mono track panned one side and delayed to the other.

[Unclenny]

I track Stella with a dynamic at the 12 fret and a LDC over my shoulder. Gotta use two mics.......

I also use a makeshift system to reflect and soften my sound.

[skiltrip]

A stereo micing can be really nice, but I always prefer a really well placed mono mic'd acoustic doubled (tightly) and hard panned. Especially when it comes to an untreated room. You'll have an easier time using make-shift isolation stuff when you only need to isolate one mic. I suppose XY would be just as easy, but I always go with the simpler method. And I just really like the sound of a doubled acoustic guitar, so I'm totally biased.

[Heartfelt]

Originally Posted by skiltrip

You'll have an easier time using make-shift isolation stuff when you only need to isolate one mic.

My thought exactly.

[Ringwraith]

For isolating in an untreated room...
I see Ethan has those traps in front of the instrument & behind the mic.
What about behind the instrument & player? Just leave that? I'm a little confused because that's were the mic is pointing. Isn't it going to pick up the crappy room sound from behind the source?? My room is about 12X20 & carpeted. It's pretty dead but the further away the mic is from the guitar it definitely gets boxy sounding. Where is the best place to put the source in a bad room if you isolate, behind the mic?

Cheers
Sean

[Ethan Winer]

Originally Posted by Ringwraith

I see Ethan has those traps in front of the instrument & behind the mic. What about behind the instrument & player? Just leave that?

It depends on the size of the source. For one singer, a setup like this works fine:



In this case the sound goes into the panels and is absorbed before it even has a chance to get out into the room and bounce around.

For larger sound sources such as a violin or sax section, baffles behind and/or around the source can help further.

--Ethan

[nas]

I can attest to the high quality and effectiveness of Ethan's products.. I purchased some mini-traps a couple of years ago and was astonished at how well they worked across the frequency spectrum. Broadband absorption is definitely the way to go.

They're not cheap though so you might want to budget for them.. then again, for the cost of a good condenser LDC you can get some significant acoustic treatment that works and is very easy to install and also easy to move around on stands.

I should add that I have no business affiliation with Real Traps whatsoever... just a very satisfied customer.

Back on topic... depending on how dense or spacious the mix, I have had very good results with either stereo or mono close mic (about a foot or so... further away if the room sounds good) X-Y, ORTF, or mono at where the neck meets the body or AB using a matched pair for stereo or single for mono SDCs. Also had good results with a LDC in Mono - but prefer SDC in either case.

[Anthem]

So if I treat the wall behind where I sit to record acoustic guitar and then build some panels out of 4" thick denim insulation I should get a good acoustic guitar sound even if I'm in a small, boxy room? Is this correct???

I have bass traps built already for all the corners but if I also build these free standing panels to use instead of blankets or dovets I should get a great sound right??

[Barish]

Recording acoustic guitar stereo with an XY placement is never a good idea IMO. Always mono.

Supress the direct reflecting surfaces around the guitar and mic and press rec button.

B.

By the way, acoustic insulation and acoustic treatment refer to two totally different actions taken in a room. You are advised to carry out a "treatment" in your room rather than an insulation. Treatment doesn't have to be permanent like an insulation installation, so you shouldn't worry about your walls' look after it. You can always take them down once finished with recording.

[CAGuy]

So if blankets are hung to form a booth to reduce early reflections they should be behind the player, right? That way the reflections coming back get caught behind the player right?
And if blankets are used they will catch reflections when they hit the front of the blanket and then again when the sound bounces off the wall and hits the back of the blanket right? Sounds like that could be effective.

Can this make a bad room work for a good recording?

[u b k]

Originally Posted by Anthem

So if I treat the wall behind where I sit to record acoustic guitar and then build some panels out of 4" thick denim insulation I should get a good acoustic guitar sound even if I'm in a small, boxy room? Is this correct???

This is not correct, there are no 'shoulds' in a game with as many variables as recording instruments.

Originally Posted by Anthem

I have bass traps built already for all the corners but if I also build these free standing panels to use instead of blankets or dovets I should get a great sound right??

Wrong again, for the same reason. Even if your treatment plan were successful and you managed to carve a great sounding space out of a small boxy room (a feat even skilled acousticians have to work hard at), that's only the first line in the battlefront.

Then you need some deft hands on a good sounding instrument, playing a part that sounds good in a way that sounds good, captured with a great sounding mic placed in a really sweet spot.

I think you should get the best sound you can get with what you have, and bang some songs out. After that, tweak some stuff in the room, maybe try a different mic, and bang some more songs out.

Prioritize music over sound, always, and never underestimate the power of a moderately crappy recording of a killer song.


Gregory Scott - ubk

[popmann]

Mono sounds fine if it's not the "main instrument" of a arrangement, IMO.

I do it often. Sm81. TLM193. 414EB--depending on the guitar and the purpose in the arrangement. Often, though, I'll record with the two 81s (NOT XY, though)...and sometimes only use one in the mix.

In an untreated room, a hypercardioid LDC would be better, but honestly...I did wonderful tracks with the 193 for years in a little bedroom.

[Brackish]

Originally Posted by Ethan Winer

Who sells portable free-standing baffles like those in the picture?

[Fran Guidry]

Well the picture you linked is from Realtraps. Did you check to see if they sell such a thing?

I made unframed panels of OC503 wrapped in burlap and use them just like those shown in the pic. The OC503 is rigid enough to stand up without a frame.

Building a broadband absorber (on the cheap) | Homebrewed Music

Fran