SM 81 for overheads. Metal/Hardcore

smbaudio · 23rd February 2009

im looking at purchasing a set of overheads.

i want nice non roomy sounds for metal and hardcore recording. i guess symbol focus. are SM 81's into api 512 or sebatron vmp-4000 a good choice. they are in my price range .

cheers

~Zenshin Suru~ · 23rd February 2009

wait.. you want microphones for drum overheads, but you don't want them to sound roomy. That sounds a bit contradictory to me. Do want your drums to sound "tight", as in, you want the final drum sound to not sound roomy?

SM81s can sound nice depending on where you put them. In my opinion, they are a really good to pair to have around, especially if you are on a budget. I've used them as drum overheads for metalcore/ punk with some success, but if you want your drums not to sound too roomy, try close mic'ing everything (top and bottom) and really dialing your gates. There are many many ways to mic up drums, and in my opinion one of the most artful things about actually recording. One theory I try to stick to is get the overheads/ room mics sounding nice and mix in the close mics to taste. If this is the case for you, maybe think about reaching a little farther to find some nicer room mics. How about akg 451?

chandlersonic · 23rd February 2009

I've used the 81s on ohs before and got useable results but honestly they would never be my first choice.

I'd get a used pair of Beyer mc930, it might a bit more than the sm81s but in my experience you'll get a lot more mileage out of them, they sound great on most percussive sources and acoustic guitars etc...

smbaudio · 23rd February 2009

thanks yeah i thought the non roomy thing sounded silly and would be misinterpreted. yeah i guess i just want to be able to create the tight clean metal drum sound that everybody wants...

thanks for the akg 451 ill sheck it out...

Keire · 23rd February 2009

Before i could afford real overheads (87s, km184s, 160s) i had 81s...they are fine. Just not the best.

grooveboxxx · 23rd February 2009

For not much more money you can get a pair of Josephson C-42's. You wont have the pad or the roll off, but the C-42's sound better to me.

JoeyM · 23rd February 2009

SM 81s aren't externally biased, that is they aren't true condensors.

I've said it before and am glad no one got mad at me, but SM 81s are basically overglorified Radio Shack electret condensers.

Fortunetly for the same price you can get something else that's truly awesome.

Roland · 23rd February 2009

The same could be said for DPA mic's, however I've never seen anyone complain about that. IMHO SM81's are very underrated mic's and work very well over the top of a kit. Others to be considered are things like Royer ribbons, AKG414's (a staple of oh miking) U87's, Coles 4038's. If your budget is tight the 81's are as good as anything anywhere near that price. Remember that by the time you have the rest of the instruments in the mix the "perceived" amount of ambiance will be a lot less. Often a problem I hear with "budget" recording is that everything is miked so close and so tight, drums become very dead and lifeless. If you listen to multi tracks of great recordings you would be surprised at just how much room is often on the sound, it's just that when the whole mix is done you can't hear it! Space and clatter is what makes a lot of the great sounds on many rock records.

Regards

Roland

BLUElightCory · 23rd February 2009

Quote:

Originally Posted by JoeyM

Fortunetly for the same price you can get something else that's truly awesome.

Like?

carlheinz · 23rd February 2009

I don't know if I'm the only one here but to me the SM-81 flavor on OH has a certain grainyness?...no matter what kit in any room.Iv'e been trying to love em on OH and saving my better mikes(km150's 414tlII's etc..) for other sources thinking I could get by or I wouldn't notice.The top end is anything but smooth.Iv'e heard less expensive Audio Technica small diaphrams sound much nicer to my ears.I'm gonna pull the sm-81's off the kit and try em on scooped metal guitar sounds.

Roland · 23rd February 2009

Quote:

Originally Posted by carlheinz

I don't know if I'm the only one here but to me the SM-81 flavor on OH has a certain grainyness?...no matter what kit in any room.I've been trying to love em on OH and saving my better mikes(km150's 414tlII's etc..) for other sources thinking I could get by or I wouldn't notice.The top end is anything but smooth.Iv'e heard less expensive Audio Technica small diaphrams sound much nicer to my ears.I'm gonna pull the sm-81's off the kit and try em on scooped metal guitar sounds.

This rather surprises me, one of the terms I would use to describe SM81's is smooth in the top, certainly not harsh, indeed, many of the AT's (particularly the cheaper ones) tend to be quite bright sounding. One of the best things about the SM81's is the fact they are smooth throughout the frequency range, a fact backed up by their very flat frequency response, perhaps at times that can lead to them sounding a little cool on certain applications, however, IMHO this isn't a problem with drum OH's.

As to the other poster who suggested that there was much better out there at the price, I would challenge him to name other good condenser/pre-polarized mics at this price, 30 years in the business and I can't think of any!

Regards

Roland

ScumBum · 23rd February 2009

Quote:

Originally Posted by Roland

This rather surprises me, one of the terms I would use to describe SM81's is smooth in the top, certainly not harsh, indeed, many of the AT's (particularly the cheaper ones) tend to be quite bright sounding. One of the best things about the SM81's is the fact they are smooth throughout the frequency range, a fact backed up by their very flat frequency response, perhaps at times that can lead to them sounding a little cool on certain applications, however, IMHO this isn't a problem with drum OH's.

As to the other poster who suggested that there was much better out there at the price, I would challenge him to name other good condenser/pre-polarized mics at this price, 30 years in the business and I can't think of any!

Regards

Roland

I agree with Roland . For $200 used I think they are the cheapest decent PRO mics you can get .

There is something about the High Freqs I hear too , not bad , not grainy , but something there that gives them a unique sound , gives them personality .

I hear the same high freqs thing with the portico preamp , not sure what it is but it sounds spicy to me .

beef · 23rd February 2009

oktava 012 are great overheads (maybe oktavamod).

Taproot · 23rd February 2009

SM-81s are EXTREMELY underrated, which is kinda cool, because you can get a set of excellent mics for cheap. They are great for overheads as well as overdriven, electric guitar.

JoeyM · 23rd February 2009

Quote:

Originally Posted by BLUElightCory

Like?

KELs or Oktavas.

Taproot had a great point about guitars too, I know people who have used the SM81 for recording semi-acoustic rhythm guitars in the Christian Pop genre and it worked. That percieved graininess was just the ticket representing guitars in that mix and no other mic would do.

There are so few pieces of equipment that fail though, they're like food choices to a chef.

The person who most hates onions might be an onion ring makers best customer. How would I know that? I'm not overweight for nothing

carlheinz · 24th February 2009

Sm-81's should work fine.

NoisyNarrowBand · 24th February 2009

get re-20's instead. they work really well as overheads plus you get excellent kick-drum mics and they are cool on guitar/bass-cabs.

nuemes · 24th February 2009

If your budget is around $400 the SM81's are a great choice, especially if you don't have many other mics.

They have a -10dB pad (great for loud drummers) as well as two bass roll-off options. And most important, they aren't hyped in the high freq like so many other mics in that range.

Never1 · 24th February 2009

I'm a fan of LDC's for OH's, usually. I use the SM81 on hihat, though. Great mic that has all the top end you want, without sounding overly hyped. It does have some zing, though. Could be to bright for more natural sounding recordings but for something as extreme as Metal, it should work fine.

smbaudio · 28th February 2009

thanks fella's, so what pre would you suggest i use with the 81's. the tube sebatron's or the API's... whats the fav . tube or solid state for tight overheads...

Mixbuster · 2nd March 2009

Go with LDC for larger than life sound, and SDC for more brillianze in the cymbals..

23rd February 2009	#1
smbaudio Gear Head Join Date: Mar 2008 Posts: 64 Thread Starter	SM 81 for overheads. Metal/Hardcore im looking at purchasing a set of overheads. i want nice non roomy sounds for metal and hardcore recording. i guess symbol focus. are SM 81's into api 512 or sebatron vmp-4000 a good choice. they are in my price range . cheers

23rd February 2009	#7
JoeyM Lives for gear Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Audioland Posts: 1,095	SM 81s aren't externally biased, that is they aren't true condensors. I've said it before and am glad no one got mad at me, but SM 81s are basically overglorified Radio Shack electret condensers. Fortunetly for the same price you can get something else that's truly awesome. __________________ Happy New gEars

23rd February 2009	#14
Taproot Gear nut Join Date: May 2006 Location: Oxford, Mississippi Posts: 88	SM-81s are EXTREMELY underrated, which is kinda cool, because you can get a set of excellent mics for cheap. They are great for overheads as well as overdriven, electric guitar. __________________ Jeffrey Reed Taproot Audio Design Oxford, Mississippi www.taprootaudiodesign.com www.myspace.com/taprootaudio "Mr. Engineer, faders up!"- John Wayne, Texas Funeral

2nd March 2009	#21
Mixbuster Gear addict Join Date: May 2008 Location: Norway Posts: 474	Go with LDC for larger than life sound, and SDC for more brillianze in the cymbals.. __________________ Use your volume knob! Mixbuster.

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23rd February 2009	#2
~Zenshin Suru~ Gear maniac Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Sebastopol, Ca Posts: 221	wait.. you want microphones for drum overheads, but you don't want them to sound roomy. That sounds a bit contradictory to me. Do want your drums to sound "tight", as in, you want the final drum sound to not sound roomy? SM81s can sound nice depending on where you put them. In my opinion, they are a really good to pair to have around, especially if you are on a budget. I've used them as drum overheads for metalcore/ punk with some success, but if you want your drums not to sound too roomy, try close mic'ing everything (top and bottom) and really dialing your gates. There are many many ways to mic up drums, and in my opinion one of the most artful things about actually recording. One theory I try to stick to is get the overheads/ room mics sounding nice and mix in the close mics to taste. If this is the case for you, maybe think about reaching a little farther to find some nicer room mics. How about akg 451?

23rd February 2009	#3
chandlersonic Lives for gear Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 847	I've used the 81s on ohs before and got useable results but honestly they would never be my first choice. I'd get a used pair of Beyer mc930, it might a bit more than the sm81s but in my experience you'll get a lot more mileage out of them, they sound great on most percussive sources and acoustic guitars etc...

23rd February 2009	#5
Keire Lives for gear Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 778	Before i could afford real overheads (87s, km184s, 160s) i had 81s...they are fine. Just not the best.

23rd February 2009	#6
grooveboxxx Gear maniac Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 222	For not much more money you can get a pair of Josephson C-42's. You wont have the pad or the roll off, but the C-42's sound better to me.

23rd February 2009	#8
Roland Lives for gear Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: St Leonards on Sea, England Posts: 2,068 2 Reviews written	The same could be said for DPA mic's, however I've never seen anyone complain about that. IMHO SM81's are very underrated mic's and work very well over the top of a kit. Others to be considered are things like Royer ribbons, AKG414's (a staple of oh miking) U87's, Coles 4038's. If your budget is tight the 81's are as good as anything anywhere near that price. Remember that by the time you have the rest of the instruments in the mix the "perceived" amount of ambiance will be a lot less. Often a problem I hear with "budget" recording is that everything is miked so close and so tight, drums become very dead and lifeless. If you listen to multi tracks of great recordings you would be surprised at just how much room is often on the sound, it's just that when the whole mix is done you can't hear it! Space and clatter is what makes a lot of the great sounds on many rock records. Regards Roland

23rd February 2009	#10
carlheinz Lives for gear Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: S.California Posts: 868	I don't know if I'm the only one here but to me the SM-81 flavor on OH has a certain grainyness?...no matter what kit in any room.Iv'e been trying to love em on OH and saving my better mikes(km150's 414tlII's etc..) for other sources thinking I could get by or I wouldn't notice.The top end is anything but smooth.Iv'e heard less expensive Audio Technica small diaphrams sound much nicer to my ears.I'm gonna pull the sm-81's off the kit and try em on scooped metal guitar sounds.

23rd February 2009	#13
beef Gear maniac Join Date: Feb 2007 Posts: 282	oktava 012 are great overheads (maybe oktavamod).

24th February 2009	#16
carlheinz Lives for gear Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: S.California Posts: 868	Sm-81's should work fine.

24th February 2009	#17
NoisyNarrowBand Gear addict Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 327	get re-20's instead. they work really well as overheads plus you get excellent kick-drum mics and they are cool on guitar/bass-cabs.

24th February 2009	#18
nuemes Gear maniac Join Date: May 2006 Location: Seattle Posts: 224	If your budget is around $400 the SM81's are a great choice, especially if you don't have many other mics. They have a -10dB pad (great for loud drummers) as well as two bass roll-off options. And most important, they aren't hyped in the high freq like so many other mics in that range.

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24th February 2009	#19
Never1 Lives for gear Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 905	I'm a fan of LDC's for OH's, usually. I use the SM81 on hihat, though. Great mic that has all the top end you want, without sounding overly hyped. It does have some zing, though. Could be to bright for more natural sounding recordings but for something as extreme as Metal, it should work fine.

28th February 2009	#20
smbaudio Gear Head Join Date: Mar 2008 Posts: 64 Thread Starter	thanks fella's, so what pre would you suggest i use with the 81's. the tube sebatron's or the API's... whats the fav . tube or solid state for tight overheads...