How much could I be getting paid?
Neyowolf
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#1
17th February 2009
Old 17th February 2009
  #1
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Thread Starter
How much could I be getting paid?

[UPDATE] The mix you are about to hear is extremely bad so please understand that I was mixing through the night 4 days in a row. Please go to thread 2 for the new mix that actually sounds pretty good in my opinion.
Hi guys! I am an 18 year old music producer that has been doing this for 4 years. I know I still have a lot to learn but I think I am ready to start working for myself. Will you guys listen to this before and after mix and tell me what is a "reasonable" amount to be charging people per song. I don't like charging hourly because I like to take as much time as it needs to get it right. I have no idea what my skill level is on but I assume I am pretty good for being 18. Oh yes, and feel free to critique. I welcome all opinions especially the negative ones!


Here is the before mix (pre processing) zSHARE - 01 Riverdown Before.wav
This is after comression eq and other FX (post processing)zSHARE - 02 Riverdown After.wav

Everything was tracked with an MA 200 and Edirol UA 101 pre amp mobile interface
#2
17th February 2009
Old 17th February 2009
  #2
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Ok, you asked for honesty. I'm going to give it to you straight up.

First of all... the term 'producer'... what exactly do you mean by that? If you are in charge of finances, contacts, musical direction, among many many other things... then you are a producer in the real sense of the term. If you did the recording and mix, then you are an engineer, not a producer.

Did you write the material? The song is pretty cool... nice chill vibe.



Ok, now about the mixing itself. I definitely wouldn't call either mix 'pro'. And... I know its harsh, but you need to hear it... the 'before' mix actually sounds better (imho) than the after.

Your after mix pumps like crazy... its way too compressed. You've got a ton of mud in the 200-400 Hz region. You brightened up the original, but it doesn't have the natural feel anymore, or the chill vibe. The top end feels like its going to break. As much as you'd like to do 'cool' things to the track, each mix requires something different... something that speaks WITH the music, not against it.

If I were in your position and wanted to be doing more mixing for bands and other artists, I would offer a free job for awhile. It will definitely be a way for you to learn more about how to use the tools at your disposal. But you never know who is going to hear your mixes... so if you charge for them and they get in the 'wrong' hands, your career could be over before it even begins. Have fun man. And don't worry about getting paid. After you do a bit more mixing, if you're getting people swarming to you to work on their tracks, then maybe consider charging $20 or $30 a mix. But right now, you've got some more to learn and more importantly, you need to have fun doing this.


As far as the assumptions you make about skill level: in this business it doesn't matter how old or young you are. Results get positive attention. Poor quality gets negative attention. I'm 22... I compete for jobs with guys from LA and NY who have been in the business longer than I have been alive. I've got to be good to get anywhere. Just cause I'm younger doesn't mean I can attract business from them. In fact, it usually works the opposite way: the older and more experienced you are, the more business you can attract - regardless of price.

So it doesn't matter if you're 18 or 40... what matters is if your work can compete.



So hey man... none of this is meant to discourage. Just to give you a straight heads up. Keep working and keep having fun. The time will come when you can charge for the work you do. You'll know when that is
#3
18th February 2009
Old 18th February 2009
  #3
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Sounds like there's a flanger on the entire track. Whatever EQ that you did I think is was too scooped and over applied. I agree that the before sounds better, cause to me it sounds more like a band and less over-applied effects making it not sound musical at all to me. The mud on the low end clouds the rest of the track and I think you're getting a lot of cancellation, honestly it makes my ears hurt because of what's happening with the overall freqs. You might want to get some sort of sonic analyzer plug that shows what's going on in the freqs of the overall song, that might help you adjust things like this.

Like Matrix said, keep at it, have fun, try different things etc. To answer the question of the post, I'd say little to nothing as of now, keep at it though, you're young and have plenty of time to not even worry about money.
#4
18th February 2009
Old 18th February 2009
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No discouragement meant here, but honesty will follow:

I think the tracks sounded better before you mixed them. Drums lost their body, massive low mid and low muddiness between bass/other instruments/low end of gtrs and keys, things get super bright, etc...

I think with some more practice, you will get better.
What are you mixing on (monitors, room treatment)? That could be a big part of the problem (you could be sitting right in a node, thus explaning the monster mud factor)

For now, I would try to get as much work as you can for free, and build your skill level and resume.
#5
18th February 2009
Old 18th February 2009
  #5
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The "Before" mix is much better.The "After" mix is plain out butchered.
#6
18th February 2009
Old 18th February 2009
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Yeah dude; really U might have really jacked it up with the mixing man; I wouldn't go for tryin to charge for mixing because thatz mnot what u did; thatz not som'n 1 can just up & do just b/c they have a DAW with some plugs etc. I know we're being hard but trust me we're saving u b/c if I gave u $4 to mix a record for me I'd be pissed & want my money back & u may have already spent it & can't give it back then there's a major problem... Get the point
#7
18th February 2009
Old 18th February 2009
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Well, i guess I get it, it seems like you are not going for a typical " take the performance and make it sound good" approach. That's cool, you are trying to be creative. It's the creative guys that end up changing music and that's what it's all about. If that is true and you are going for a Remix vibe, then you should go all the way with it. Really get in there and chop stuff up and make your own creation. Let us hear the same track after you put in a couple weeks work on it. I bet you can ultimately do something that will blow our minds.

As for the way it sounds now, I'm not that into it. I have to agree with the other guys, the before version sounds more pleasant to listen to. But, like I said, I think you have great potential.

As far as charging? It seem like if you want to make money from that you should think about some kinda spec deal. If you can create something commercially viable apart from what the band already has, you could ask for a piece of proceeds. That would motivate you to work it until it is great and motivate the "client" let you work on their tracks. Also, you will learn about selling music which is ultimately where the $$$ come from.

Good luck
Neyowolf
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#8
18th February 2009
Old 18th February 2009
  #8
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Thread Starter
Wait wait, okay that mix was ****ED UP! WOAH! I didnt realize it until now. I think mixing all the way through the night is a bad bad idea. Ear fatigue guys woah. Sorry. Let me upload the real thing and please continue your suggestions.
Check that out!


zSHARE - Riverdown After.wav
#9
18th February 2009
Old 18th February 2009
  #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Neyowolf View Post
Wait wait, okay that mix was ****ED UP! WOAH! I didnt realize it until now. I think mixing all the way through the night is a bad bad idea. Ear fatigue guys woah. [/COLOR]
realizing when something is messed up is one of the most important skills an engineer needs to have.

first, do no harm.

now, if you are the artist or the producer, then what is harm and what is creativity is your call to make, but if nobody else likes what you did, you won't be a very wealthy producer.
#10
18th February 2009
Old 18th February 2009
  #10
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I'm going to listen to this and give you an honest reply but if im wasting 5 mins downloading this 60mb file well lets put it this way

for every mistake i find i shall kill you

i love family guy can u tell?


could you compress this anymore???? geez 67 clipped samples
I can hear the compressor pump thats not good ever
the whole track sounds drowneded by overcompression and a phaser
everything has way to much effects imho
vocals sound burried, but this is just listening in headphones
the bass is stepping on everything espially the drums
this is not a good mix by anyones standards

how much should you be paid uh nothing

what I would suggest is for you to pay someone to mix this and sit with them
and learn a few things. Go in as the producer explaining what you want
and see how it's done. This is utter garbage and the sad thing is
I can hear good tracks burried under all that fluff to work with.
You want to get better at mixing grow some thick skin and take
some serious critique drop the compressor all of it all the effects
drop them to and work on stereo seperation eq things like that.
Effects are the icing on the cake you work on the basics first then
add them to taste you don't build your mix around fx you build the mix
first then add fx, also great for beginners try making good quality mono mixes
if you can get it to sound good in mono your 1/2 way there imho

I'm old school what can i say

I know you think im being a dick but i use to suck
worse then you once upon a time so there is hope

I have a book around here somewhere with a cd as well
that explains some basic mixing steps and practices if I find it
and if you want it ill send it to you. All I ask is when your done with it
that you pass it on to someone else that could use it let me know
#11
18th February 2009
Old 18th February 2009
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Quote:
Originally Posted by doulos View Post
I'm going to listen to this and give you an honest reply but if im wasting 5 mins downloading this 60mb file well lets put it this way

for every mistake i find i shall kill you
I must be in a good mood tonight cause this literally had me LOL.

Edit: As for something substantive: Learning to take criticism and really assess it and yourself is really important. As in not just taking it personally. (BTW, I couldn't get the mixes to work, so I can't really comment.)

Last edited by Eloheim; 18th February 2009 at 10:46 AM.. Reason: Added substance
#12
18th February 2009
Old 18th February 2009
  #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Neyowolf View Post
Hi guys! I am an 18 year old music producer that has been doing this for 4 years. I know I still have a lot to learn but I think I am ready to start working for myself. Will you guys listen to this before and after mix and tell me what is a "reasonable" amount to be charging people per song. I don't like charging hourly because I like to take as much time as it needs to get it right. I have no idea what my skill level is on but I assume I am pretty good for being 18. Oh yes, and feel free to critique. I welcome all opinions especially the negative ones!


Here is the before mix (pre processing) zSHARE - 01 Riverdown Before.wav
This is after comression eq and other FX (post processing)zSHARE - 02 Riverdown After.wav

Everything was tracked with an MA 200 and Edirol UA 101 pre amp mobile interface

interesting - but that's not a "mix"....that's you being and artist and interpretting the track - a "remix" if you like.....

Unless you're gunning to be an artist doing a specific thing that's the kind of career ruining mix!! So - figure out what you wanna be - if I sent you stuff to mix (and you're way too young for me to do that ....) and you came back with that - I wouldn't pay you! If I was looking for someone to reinterpret in a remix kind of way - then hey.... interesting - but not nice to listen too.... having said that I've worked with AAA list mixers who produce unlistenable stuff too.....
#13
18th February 2009
Old 18th February 2009
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Quote:
Originally Posted by doulos View Post
vocals sound burried,
Did u really get that far? I'm sorry but I couldn't take it...
#14
18th February 2009
Old 18th February 2009
  #14
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peat's Avatar
 
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i only listened from the stream on your link

but are both mixes completely mono?
#15
18th February 2009
Old 18th February 2009
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Neyowolf View Post
Wait wait, okay that mix was ****ED UP! WOAH! I didnt realize it until now. I think mixing all the way through the night is a bad bad idea. Ear fatigue guys woah. Sorry. Let me upload the real thing and please continue your suggestions.
Check that out!


zSHARE - Riverdown After.wav
Yeah... still much better before the mix.

(Again - ) What monitors are you mixing on? Is your room treated?
#16
18th February 2009
Old 18th February 2009
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I think you would be much better off if you changed your attitude from "I'm pretty good" to "I could be significantly better, and I have a lot to learn".

It doesn't matter who you are, that should be your attitude. But for some folks it's more true than others
#17
18th February 2009
Old 18th February 2009
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Neyowolf View Post
Hi guys! I am an 18 year old music producer that has been doing this for 4 years. I know I still have a lot to learn but I think I am ready to start working for myself. Will you guys listen to this before and after mix and tell me what is a "reasonable" amount to be charging people per song. I don't like charging hourly because I like to take as much time as it needs to get it right. I have no idea what my skill level is on but I assume I am pretty good for being 18. Oh yes, and feel free to critique. I welcome all opinions especially the negative ones!


Here is the before mix (pre processing) zSHARE - 01 Riverdown Before.wav
This is after comression eq and other FX (post processing)zSHARE - 02 Riverdown After.wav

Everything was tracked with an MA 200 and Edirol UA 101 pre amp mobile interface
Are you serious??
Is this some bloody joke??
Man,its f***ing horrendous!!
If I were you Id keep your day gig,or stay in school..whatever.
#18
18th February 2009
Old 18th February 2009
  #18
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ha that was rough.

Dont worry bro, I've seen kats that mix worse than that, and stay busy with work.

I wouldn't model a business after that though, not sure how it happens.
#19
18th February 2009
Old 18th February 2009
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scram_chops View Post
ha that was rough.

Dont worry bro, I've seen kats that mix worse than that, and stay busy with work.

I wouldn't model a business after that though, not sure how it happens.
Ok now are YOUUU serious???? Was that a bloody joke??????????
#20
18th February 2009
Old 18th February 2009
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My Recordings/Credits

Some of the issues here are linguistic.

At this point in time you are not a producer. You make beats

Which is fine. Keep doing it....get it batter. You have the talent to do that.

What I would do is stockpile as many beats as you can, and fo into the local rap and r and b communities and sell beats on a six month license. Whoever dives you one hundred bucks can use that beat exclusively for six months. After that, they can still sell their version, but you can once again show it to other folks.

If they want you to record a vocal charge kow...like 20 bucks. Hard to bitch about 20 buck/hr.

Easy on the compression cowboy.....
#21
18th February 2009
Old 18th February 2009
  #21
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.

you COULD be getting paid 8 million dollars every five minutes...

...COULD...

.
#22
18th February 2009
Old 18th February 2009
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The mix sounded better before eq etc, I mean much much better, a 3630 would have sounded better than that.
#23
18th February 2009
Old 18th February 2009
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AllAboutTone View Post
a 3630 would have sounded better than that.
Maybe even a "360" dunk
#24
18th February 2009
Old 18th February 2009
  #24
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I have tried to post on this thread a few times, but I didn't know what to say without being REALLY harsh.

So i'll just say this, the most important piece of gear we own is our ears.

To the OP:
listen to your mix.
compare it to some of the people you've looked up to in record production.
does it even remotely sound like your gaining ground on what your mentors?
until you (and a few of your REALLY honest friends can answer YES!), then refrain from calling yourself a producer
#25
18th February 2009
Old 18th February 2009
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ive only listened to the unmixed so far,but why is it recorded Mono
#26
18th February 2009
Old 18th February 2009
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ok second mix sounds like u put izotope mastering plug in over the track..its mussy man,
#27
18th February 2009
Old 18th February 2009
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tony Shepperd View Post
I have tried to post on this thread a few times, but I didn't know what to say without being REALLY harsh.

So i'll just say this, the most important piece of gear we own is our ears.

To the OP:
listen to your mix.
compare it to some of the people you've looked up to in record production.
does it even remotely sound like your gaining ground on what your mentors?
until you (and a few of your REALLY honest friends can answer YES!), then refrain from calling yourself a producer
The Sheppard has Spaketh, Many sheep shall follow "HOPEFULLY"
#28
18th February 2009
Old 18th February 2009
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KEYBEEETSSS View Post
Ok now are YOUUU serious???? Was that a bloody joke??????????
I wish I was joking. I really do.
#29
18th February 2009
Old 18th February 2009
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scram_chops View Post
I wish I was joking. I really do.
Wowwww... Unbelievable...
#30
18th February 2009
Old 18th February 2009
  #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Neyowolf View Post
I don't like charging hourly
You will go out of business if you do not charge by the hour.

Because every sing is different one song may take a week the next one will take a month. Then you'll be posting here about clients trying to take advantage you to change that pop song you just finished and spent 3 months on into a hip-hop song. Or some other crazy thing like 10 different re-mixes.
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