Monitor Mix Position vs Mix Translation vs Speaker Placement vs What You Already Know

[Hardtoe]

I have just completed my first major full length indie rock mix project. I have gotten fairly good translation out of most of my mixes, but there have been a few problems in the low end and a few mid range anomalies.

(I am mixing on Event Bas 20/20's which I have owned for 9 years and am very familiar with the sound of a wide range of commercial mixes on)

I currently use the monitors on their side, tweeters in, in an untreated room with the speakers toed directly towards my ears and directly at ear level. I sit close to the equalateral position, perhaps slightly forward of the point - i have moved my head around in the sweet spot and I sit where everything comes together the best (I know many will already be horrified, but I have tried them tweeters out and the stereo image falls aparts as I can not place them closer together with the design of my desk - the 20/20 manual states they can be used on their sides, but should be "tweeters out"). I move very little from my sweet spot as I mix ITB.

After reading several "monitors vertical/horizontal" threads here at gearslutz, I have tried placing them vertical, just to see the difference - this immediately has the effect of raising the tweeters about 8" above my ear - I have them slightly toed in and angled down to point towards my ears. I have noticed both positive and negative results - on the plus side, they sound more open and clearer with a better defined "kik drum" region and more open highs - on the minus side they are MUCH brighter and sound harsh in the upper mids - I have listened through a lot of material that I am very familiar with and the difference is astounding - songs sound clearer and punchier with more bottom definition - and harsh - I have tried turning down the treble adjustments on the speaker by 1db and this has helped to make is listenable, but there is still some weirdness there.

To try to combat this I moved some portable accoustic panels from my tracking room into my mix room an put them in the reflection points just to see what would happen ( I had previously tried this with the monitors placed horizontally, but had not heard a dramatic difference) The difference was immediate - things tightened up considerably, but the harsh "bump" was still there (I think the tweeters being higher shoots considerably more highs into the rear wall)

I am not quite sure how to proceed at this point - I like the plus points of the vertical orientation, but I fell that my speakers no longer sound "right". In the horizontal position I have some definition issues and a few frequency peaks, but I have always thought that all music sounded pretty natural. I plan to treat my room with some absorbtion and diffusion in the near future in any case, but I wonder If I should try this new, but difficult vertical positioning (having to relearn how everything should sound) or go bck to the devil I (kind of) know.

I just dont want to second guess every mix I do - I have been thrown off by the vast frequency response difference of simply reorienting my speaker (and no I do not want to hear how bas 20/20 are impossbile to mix on and I must get "x" speaker - I need to work with what I have) Also, they horizontal placement translates better to the cound behind my desk where clients sit.

Thanks in advance

[aof21]

Hi Hardtoe

I know you said you didn't want responses saying that 20/20s are hard to mix on, but it sounds like from your post there is something you are not happy with. I'm sure you could always benefit from better room treatment, (if you read the threadz in the Studio construction / acoustics you know there is ALWAYS more and better treatment that can be done!) but also maybe you SHOULD consider different speakers. I'm not a 20/20 hater, and I have never worked with speakers that cost over $10,000 or anything, but if you are posting here saying there is something you are not happy with maybe it is the speakers themselves ... maybe you can find a friend or a really reputable, nice local dealer that will let you borrow an alternative pair(s) of monitors. Try them out... maybe you'll find something that you like better. 20/20s aren't horrible, but having used them myself, I don't understand being attached to them... (sorry I couldn't help a little dig on the 20/20s.... I found them VERY hard to work with!) Good luck!

[Hardtoe]

aof21,

Thanks for your input - after a few more days experimentation I have made some discoveries

(and some pm's from a high level engineer who asked me not to share his comments - but he did shed some light on my situation which helped me to make my decisions - Im only posting the conclusions I came to on my own and not his tips however)

Now you think you would know the sound of your speaker after 9 years, but I just discovered a new level of performance from the same box.

A big part of the problem was that when I stood the speakers up, they shot over my head more, which gave more high end reflections and made them sound harsh - when I enabled the treble cut on the speaker it helped the highs, but the mids were too forward by comparison - to combat this I put up more absorbtion and this killed the reflections to the point that I could set the speaker eq flat again - I have also toed out my speakers as much as possible - with my speakers in the upright position I now have controlled, defined and trustworthy freq response - I am going to do even more to fix the room, as this is obviously the most important thing to help with translation.

I am now totally satisfied with my Events (and yes, I am quite attached to them - I love their soft, but precise sound)