Over Head and kick drum mics. Opinions needed

[floater138]

I finally have enough inputs to properly record drums now that I got a fireface 800, but need some help in choosing microphones. Style of music will be more rock/pop/indi based (think the police with a twinge of modern garage rock). I need a good kick drum mic and overheads first off. I know the room, experience, player, song arrangement, mic placement, and everything else will make or break a piece of gear, so lets cut to the chase and hear your favorites and why.

I am willing to spend decent money on microphones but have no problem saving myself some dough for something that does the trick just as well as the big names. A lot of people seem to speak fairly highly of beta 52 for kick, as well audio technica mics for overheads. Others seem to love or hate km184's, mojave 100's, etc...

Anyways, please give me your thoughts and experience.

thanks!

[jensenmann]

Beyerdynamic M88 is not only a versatile BD mike, it also serves well for toms, bass, brass and even vocals. On kick it sounds more neutral with less pronounced treble. It´s more tweakable into different sounds than a beta 52 which always sounds more or less the same IMHO. If these are your first mikes then I´d go for more versatility.
Regarding overheads Beyer MC930 are very nice for a great price. Again, very versatile. Most other SDCs in the same league are much more expensive (well chinese stuff ain´t but that´s another chapter)

[Wayne]

".. so lets cut to the chase and hear your favorites and why" again.

Insert list of 50 mics here:

[jensenmann]

Originally Posted by Wayne

".. so lets cut to the chase and hear your favorites and why" again.

Insert list of 50 mics here:

He´s asking for advice so why should we not give him advice? If you don´t care about this thread save your comments for somewhere else.

[warhead]

Almost regardless of budget I reach for the following:

ATM450 (overheads)
E/V ND868 (kick)

I get everything I typically need to work with out of those mics in those positions, to EQ into anything I need.

If you have the dough, replacing the ATM450 with something like the BLUE Dragonfly would be, well, scary good also...and a more "finished" overhead sound (and more useful on other things).

War

[NeilEngle]

Heres what I like:

I do alot of.. not quite metal, but heavier than most rock

For kick the beta 52 is good, but like was said before, i seems to always sound the same. (great if you like that sound tho) I've used the Audix D6 on kick alot, but in all honesty for what i do im not a big fan... Its known for getting alot of slap out of there but i always seem to find too much muddy low out of it. I guess it just doesnt work with my micing style...??

My fav for kick is the Sennheiser 602, for me it has that perfect blend. Sometimes I throw a 57 closer inside to get a little more slap out of her...
The 421 has a very interesting sound too if your looking for slap. Its a different slappy sound.

A yamaha sub kick is great for getting that low end... but its not for all applications...

OverHeads are tricky.. for almost every project im using a different set of mics. Rode NT5s are cheap, they do the job but they seem to be a little harsh in the high end. Nothing wrong if thats what your going for.

Royer 121s are a bit smoother, a little more vintage sounding. I want to try the set of peluso sdc really bad! they are cheap too. Anyone use them? Also I've heard that some of the AudioTechnica mics are great.

Honestly the KEY for me is a good MS set up out front of the drums. (a royer and a soundelux 195 for example). Compress the crap out of em and blend them into the mix and it adds a nice wide vintage punch.

Hope this helps!
Thats what I do...

[usefullidiot]

I have used the Senn 602, Beta 52 , M-88 and D112 with varying success...my preference at this stage would definatly be the D112 in combination with the M-88...it creates a nice blend of deep bass but also attack and definition that the other two mics miss out on..I really find the 602 and 52 to be a little swampy and loose.

FYI a technique I like to use is to get two bass drums and attach them to make a very long chamber. I remove the resonant head of the first drum and the batter off the second and attach them using tape and place a heavy blanket over the small gap to dry to reduce spill...I then place up to 3 mics along the chamber...i.e A D112 near the beater, a 52 at the mid point and a m-88 at the rear port.. I pull the tracks into phase and blend..

Seems to work nice

[Wayne]

Originally Posted by jensenmann

He´s asking for advice so why should we not give him advice? If you don´t care about this thread save your comments for somewhere else.

Right then, from the top.

[GetUpfortheDown]

My go-to for overheads is a pair of 414's. On a budget, I really like the 4050's... they have sounded natural in the few instances I have used them as OVH's (a good thing since I like to keep my overheads un-EQ'ed if possible, minus an occational hi-pass).

As for the kick I use a D112. I have used a B52 on a few occasions, as well as the Audix D6, but the D112 is my fave. Much is personal preference as well as genre and the actual kick drum itself.

[mixerguy]

pair KSM 32 for overheads

they also do well on many, many other things... a very flat non-hyped mic.

Beta 52 on Kick

57 snare

done and done

[digibird]

Consider Audio Technica 4047s for overheads or room mics. They also work well on male vocals, guitar amps and acoustic guitar. I love 4047s. A very good, inexpensive OH alternative are the KEL HM-1s.

I have grown tired of the Audix D6 and AKG D112 kick drum sounds and am using a Shure SM7 more lately = more roots rock type sound. Having the SM7 around for vocals is a huge plus.

U87 as mono OH or FOK is hard to beat, too. A pair for OH or room would be kinda pricey but the U87 is applicable in so many situations/placements, it's a great mic for me.

[davidvaldes]

For bass drum, I´ve been succesfully using an Audio Technica AE 2500. It´s a dual capsule (dynamic and condenser) microphone, giving you the best of both worlds:

Audio-Technica - Microphones, headphones, wireless microphone systems, noise-cancelling headphones & more : AE2500 Dual-element Cardioid Instrument Microphone

Put it inside for a more punchy sound, or outside (close to the resonant head) for a more natural one.

Combined with the previous mic, I have also tried a heavily modified Apex 460 in a more distant position, "alla U47". Works very well.

Concerning the overheads, I love my Violets "The Finger", giving a very natural and detailed sound. Used with my DAV pres, they´re pure magic.

For a more vintage sound, I´ve been using two modified Apex 205 in a Glyn Johns set-up. Very sweet indeed.

[Wayne]

Kits default here QTC1's. 4047 -more fun factor. KSM32- the one I'm coming to appreciate more and more. A real gem it turns out.

[kojak]

+1 for the AT2500...super versatile mic, useful on kick, guitar cabs, bass cabs...also, the longer i do this the more i realize overheads and room mics end up playing a way bigger part and hence require a nicer mic and preamp than close mics. Obviously if you have the dough for nice mics and pres all around, then go for it of course, but if you're like most people and build up your gear in stages, go for nice OH and rooms first, as even a half decent dynamic mic will do the trick on toms for example. Plus scrounging up 57s or what have you is usually easier than asking to borrow a nicer LD condenser.

So, my latest faves: for OHs, Rode NT5 or AKG 451...if you have more cash, a matched pair of AKG 414s are one of the most valuable tools you can have in any studio, as you can record almost anything with them. Useful in either a mid-side configuration or an X-Y for room mics too.

For kick, all the usual suspects have been mentioned, so it depends on what sort of vibe you're after...I find Audix mics better suited to more "modern" type music (the super punchy, present BD sound) vs. D112s and B52s are a more general use sort of mic, if you're doing a more laid back, straight up rock sound. Both are very decent on bass cabs as well. My only other suggestion might be an EV RE20...not used a whole lot on BD any more, but for a while they were quite popular, and I still dig the sound of them. Plus they're relatively cheap-ish, and sound cool on a male vocal too.

Anyway best of luck, and do pay lots of attention to the pres for your OH and rooms too, as they play a large part in your drum sound as typically they are dialed in fairly loud (vs. the preamp level on your close mics), so a higher quality outboard pre will make loads of difference in terms of noise floor and just an overall nice sounding room.

[ScumBum]

e602 for kick I like alot and they're cheap , $100 .

I like U87s as Overheads but they are expensive .

SM81's are really good and cheap , they are decent and get the job done .

I use an SM7 for kick and vocals . Its hard to position in the kick but sounds really good . I'd check it out cause it will get two uses in the studio , kick and vocals .

I like 421 for kick the best though but not much for vocals .

Try 414's ,


Then get a bunch of 57's for everything else ,

[huarez]

I like mypair of M 149 for overhead very much. One is in front of the kick and the other looks over the shoulder of the drummer, both two stick lengh away from the snare. Getting nice dark sounding cymbals and a big sounding Kit. For Kick I love the D 12 for it´s warm sound. D 112 is cool too and the AE 2500 is amazing for modern sounding kicks. .

[RARStudios]

2 m-audio sputnik

[floater138]

great feedback. this really gives me some great ideas. it sounds like if i were to go the audio technica route, there seems to be a lot of options to choose from cause almost everyone said a different model for overheads. thats cool. I like that.

I could possibly grab a couple of used 414's, however its always more expensive to get the matched pair. any, problems with not buying a stereo pair and getting separate, but same models of mics?

Royers would be great for guitar and overhead which would be great. That would be pretty pricey for me though. Can you use just one side of the sf12 stereo royer ribbon mic at a time? if so, has anyone ever tried using it for guitars? This could be cheaper used, than two used 121's.

thanks and keep em coming!

[Chromalord]

The Royer 122- which have slowly become one of my all time favorite mics.
I dont think any studio should be without a pair

I also have great results with the Gefell M300

If you want a large diaphragm sound, the Korby FETS are awesome.

Aslo, if you have not tried them yet the Heil PR40 is the shit on kick drum and you can get them for less than $400.

[danchar]

I really like my charter oak s600s. They are really smooth. Not harsh at all and they can handle a smaller drum room pretty well. I like to be able to add the air to the cymbals after they hit the tape. The s600s take the eq like a champ. I havent used my 414s on overs since i got my s600s.

[kojak]

In my experience, getting a "matched pair" isn't really that big a deal...as long as you get the same model 414 (ULS/TLII/XLII/whatever) in both cases, they'll be close enough for sure.

[Jonboy79]

I had a ton of good luck with Shure KSM 109's for overheads and an Audix D6 for kick. I specialize in the genre's you mentioned and nobody has every complained. In fact I absolutely love the sound I get on kicks with the D6.

[carlheinz]

For a tighter modern in your face kick drum...I'm liking my Audio Technica ATM 25 at the moment..inside the shell close to the front head etc.Combine with outer...room etc...Luv it.I own the D6..421..D112...It;s just a flavor..They are all good.I'm not sure what overs sound good to me.For less sheen or silk and more rock I like the SM-81's.They are ok...But You could buy some Area 51's or Vienna;s.....Or some Mojavi 200's.

[junior]

I think the SM7 recommendation was very good advice. Great kick mic and has MANY other uses.

Now, about the overheads... so many choices here...

[AdamJay]

for spaced pair i use AT4041's on OH. They take EQ surprisingly well, and with the right room and cymbals (nothing terribly bright or trashy), they're a good fit.

for Mid/side i like dual ribbons, Beyer M160/Mid & Shinybox 23C Side.

I'm currently saving for Beyer MC930's. Have rented them a few times and am really impressed with them. Great depth and clarity but not so clean that they come across as sterile.

On kick, Audix D6 has never done me wrong. Sold my AKG D112 years ago thanks to the Audix. Whenever i need a different kick sound i just play with the placement and tuning, its a real versatile kick mic, capable of being modern as well as wooley..

[larrykane]

I accidentally found a fine kick drum mike. I had an akg c3000a laying around (note -an ENTIRELY different mike than the cheaper c3000b). I placed it on kick, actually a foot away, not even in it and I was really blown away. It has several settings, pad, pattern etc., it is a dual diaphragm mike with one 1' and one 3/8". Mine is modded in that after reading about it in a forum somewhere I carefully removed the internal foam pop filter which is right on the face of the capsule. The removal made it a much more open sounding mike, but still not as nice as, say, a c414, Nonetheless it has become my go to kik mike. I think they go pretty cheap.

[xjaredcolbyx]

Kick:
Audio Technica ATM 25
Audix D6
AKG D112

Overheads:
AKG 451
AKG 414
Rode NT5
Shure KSM44

[bass man]

hi


pretty standard setup for all kinds of music ....


Bd - Akg d112 , shure beta , ev re 20 , neumann tlm 103
snare - sm 57 , sennheiser 900 series , km 184 , c 414 for soft things
toms - whatever you have from your dyn mics , i use audix or sennheiser 900, sm 57 or 58 etc ...
hi hat - akg 451 works fine sometimes km 184 but depends on cymbals and genre

over heads 2 x km 184 almost always , 2 x c 414 sometimes

2 km 184 over heads d 112 bd and sm 57 snare is something i do most of the time ( for jazz , fusion etc ... )

[TankStudio]

Kick - vintage Sennheiser MD421 or AKG D12E with a Yamaha Subkick
Snare - classic 57/beta 57 top/bottom combo or Beyer 201
Toms - SM57/Beta 98's or Senn 421's
OH - AKG 414ULS in a pinch, have used Cascade Fathead Ribbons for a more vintage/darker sound. I also have a pair of MBHO 603's that are great condensers OH mics but can be a bit bright at times depending on the cymbal setup.
Room - pair of AKG414 or AT4050's in omni, compressed to taste

[theearthis]

kick: AKG D112 or RE20
OH: Neumann tlm103s or 193s or km184s or cheaper would be AT4033
I have gotten great results with all of these