Avantone CK-40 or Telefunken ELA M 270... Omni=oxymoron??

Washington · 9th February 2009

Folks, I don't get this.

The Avantone CK-40 has very good reviews, and some here seem to consider it a good piece of gear.
It's obviously modelled after the Telefunken ELA M 270, only it's priced roughly $15,400 cheaper. Fine by me.

But here's what. For those who are not familiar with this design, both the avantone and the Telefunken sport two capsules mounted one on top of the other, with the upper one rotating up to 270 degrees, and both are offering a 3-pos variable polar pattern. The idea is to be able to set them both cardio for coincident XY stereo, both figure-of-eight for blumlein setup or figure-of-eight / cardio for MS. I recently used a Telefunken of the same kind for drums overhead, and it's simply a great, great design. Whatever technique you use, no more phase issues.

But the omni pattern? WTF? Of course, you can use a single diaphragm to have an omni single mic, but TWO OMNI VERTICALLY ALIGNED? Isn't that an oxymoron? What kind of stereo does that provide? Granted, omnis have some directionality on the highest range, but come on... enough to create a stereo field? Ignorance is bliss, but this ain't a Mary Poppins world here, so I'd like to know.

Of course,I don't imagine a second that the guys at Telefunken had no clue

, but I'm puzzled. Thanx for your enlightment.

thecrashfactory · 9th February 2009

If I had one of these dudey Telefunkens (and it's a looong way off, let me tell you...) then after messing with options for xy/blumlein/M-S, I'd probably play with an i-just-made-it-up parallell processing thing:

Place mic a couple of feet from Drum kit in an awesome room.
Set one capsule to omni, one to cardioid.
Record the result to two tracks, crushing the crap out of your omni signal.
Blend to taste your focussed, up front signal and your mashed, room-heavy omni with no phase issues.

I would like to see how this sounds. My point is, it could be cool for different stereo OR mono tricks.

Washington · 9th February 2009

Golly, that's brillant. Thanx!

joelpatterson · 9th February 2009

I just used my CK-40 for a choral concert last night. It was at the quarter-sticked open lid of the piano. When there was an accompanist, it captured an amazing-- thrilling!-- extremely detailed and revealing version of what the player was doing. For the groups that had no accompanist, I cranked the gain and got a beautiful rendition of the chorus on the risers.

These days it's always set at 90 degrees, both caps cardioid, but once on a whim I set both caps omni and stuck it right in under the fully-sticked lid of a piano, as a gruelling acid test or something, and it sounded great, rich and blooming and washy like enveloping you in that cuddly, dense, magical piano sound.

There's just something about two-point recordings, even in omni from the same point, that sounds realer and truer than the same thing from one mic.

Realigion · 7th November 2011

How do these mics compare to the Sony C-800G in terms of rap vocals

PRobb · 7th November 2011

Hang on- let me get my popcorn.
That was a 2 1/2 year bump?

Washington · 7th November 2011

Quote:

Originally Posted by PRobb

Hang on- let me get my popcorn.
That was a 2 1/2 year bump?

Indeedy. Couldn't help to save my life.

run, megalodon · 7th November 2011

An oxymoron is a figure of speech that composed of contradictory terms. Like "living dead."

9th February 2009	#1
Washington Lives for gear Join Date: Mar 2008 Posts: 972 Thread Starter	Avantone CK-40 or Telefunken ELA M 270... Omni=oxymoron?? Folks, I don't get this. The Avantone CK-40 has very good reviews, and some here seem to consider it a good piece of gear. It's obviously modelled after the Telefunken ELA M 270, only it's priced roughly $15,400 cheaper. Fine by me. But here's what. For those who are not familiar with this design, both the avantone and the Telefunken sport two capsules mounted one on top of the other, with the upper one rotating up to 270 degrees, and both are offering a 3-pos variable polar pattern. The idea is to be able to set them both cardio for coincident XY stereo, both figure-of-eight for blumlein setup or figure-of-eight / cardio for MS. I recently used a Telefunken of the same kind for drums overhead, and it's simply a great, great design. Whatever technique you use, no more phase issues. But the omni pattern? WTF? Of course, you can use a single diaphragm to have an omni single mic, but TWO OMNI VERTICALLY ALIGNED? Isn't that an oxymoron? What kind of stereo does that provide? Granted, omnis have some directionality on the highest range, but come on... enough to create a stereo field? Ignorance is bliss, but this ain't a Mary Poppins world here, so I'd like to know. Of course,I don't imagine a second that the guys at Telefunken had no clue , but I'm puzzled. Thanx for your enlightment. __________________ . A musician's attempt to cope with the state of the industry (instead of being sorry for not getting rich)

9th February 2009	#4
joelpatterson Lives for gear Join Date: May 2005 Location: Albany, New York Posts: 9,075	I just used my CK-40 for a choral concert last night. It was at the quarter-sticked open lid of the piano. When there was an accompanist, it captured an amazing-- thrilling!-- extremely detailed and revealing version of what the player was doing. For the groups that had no accompanist, I cranked the gain and got a beautiful rendition of the chorus on the risers. These days it's always set at 90 degrees, both caps cardioid, but once on a whim I set both caps omni and stuck it right in under the fully-sticked lid of a piano, as a gruelling acid test or something, and it sounded great, rich and blooming and washy like enveloping you in that cuddly, dense, magical piano sound. There's just something about two-point recordings, even in omni from the same point, that sounds realer and truer than the same thing from one mic. __________________ Mountaintop Studios ~the peak of perfection~ Petersburgh NY 12138 mountaintop@taconic.net www.joelpatterson.us

7th November 2011	#6
PRobb Gear Guru Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: NYC Posts: 13,775	Hang on- let me get my popcorn. That was a 2 1/2 year bump? __________________ To doubt everything or to believe everything are two equally convenient solutions; both dispense with the necessity of reflection. -Henri Poincare

Thread Tools	Search this Thread
Show Printable Version Email this Page	Search this Thread: Advanced Search

Similar Threads
Thread	Thread starter	Forum	Replies	Last Post
Telefunken ELA M 300	beranie	So much gear, so little time!	4	22nd July 2011 09:57 PM
Schematics for Telefunken Siemens V 270	shesmovedon	So much gear, so little time!	0	17th September 2008 10:02 AM
Telefunken Ela-M 260	relicrover	High end	0	1st February 2008 09:22 PM
Telefunken ELA V624	Purp	Geekslutz forum	1	20th December 2006 12:20 AM

9th February 2009	#2
thecrashfactory Gear Head Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Nottingham, UK Posts: 39	If I had one of these dudey Telefunkens (and it's a looong way off, let me tell you...) then after messing with options for xy/blumlein/M-S, I'd probably play with an i-just-made-it-up parallell processing thing: Place mic a couple of feet from Drum kit in an awesome room. Set one capsule to omni, one to cardioid. Record the result to two tracks, crushing the crap out of your omni signal. Blend to taste your focussed, up front signal and your mashed, room-heavy omni with no phase issues. I would like to see how this sounds. My point is, it could be cool for different stereo OR mono tricks.

7th November 2011	#5
Realigion Gear interested Join Date: Oct 2011 Posts: 23	How do these mics compare to the Sony C-800G in terms of rap vocals

7th November 2011	#8
run, megalodon Gear maniac Join Date: Dec 2008 Posts: 156	An oxymoron is a figure of speech that composed of contradictory terms. Like "living dead."