Thickening a band with a single guitar

[Fu Schnickens]

I am going to be remixing a couple of tracks for a band, and at the time they only had resourcces to record one guitar with one amp and one mic. They tracked to tape, which I will be importing to PT. What are some options for making the guitar sound bigger and better than just the single mic? Re-amping is not an option as there is no clean signal, and I don't have a re-amp box.

[buddy]

A quick solution would be to dupe the guitar track, delay it 10-20ms and hard pan the two. I've never been a real fan of that trick, but apparently it's pretty popular, and it'll get you by in a pinch. Obviously the best thing to do would be to get the guitarist back in and have him double-track it, but I'm not sure if that's an option.

[jproc]

One thing I've done frequently when faced with a single guitar track that needs some thickening is copy it to a second track, and delay it by a tiny amount.. just enough to fatten it without the delay being perceptible..

[jproc]

e.. i must have hit submit at the same time as Buddy... he read my mind...

[amishsixstringe]

What tracking engineer would not even bother at least recording a double? Did he even print a DI? That could help you. I never have been a fan of the fake double method mentioned above. If I was you, I would try to make the drums sound big and wide and put the guitar somewhere close to the middle of the soundscape. Pan the guitar like <20 and then send it to a delayed plate verb and pan that 50> and put a stereo widener on the drum bus. Might sound kinda cool. You'll have your work cut out for you if you're trying to make the guitars sound big. Good luck.


neil

[BIGT-1]

In addition to the delay trick, try detuning the faux dbl 9-12 cents.

[leebridges]

if they tracked to a click, copy the 2nd chorus guitar to a second track at the time of the 1st chorus...etc...or if the progression repeats, copy the first progression to the second on a second track, and vice-versa. make sense?

[casey_outlaw]

Originally Posted by Fu Schnickens

I am going to be remixing a couple of tracks for a band, and at the time they only had resourcces to record one guitar with one amp and one mic. They tracked to tape, which I will be importing to PT. What are some options for making the guitar sound bigger and better than just the single mic? Re-amping is not an option as there is no clean signal, and I don't have a re-amp box.

When I think of single tracked guitars, I think of Rage Against the Machine. They have some great single tracked guitar sections in their songs. A little distortion on the bass seems to help a good bit in filling it out.

[eclectic]

Just hard pan it to one side, and then throw a send to other side with a nice plate verb or some wacky effect? Enough to fill it out. If there was acoustic, maybe try duping that and running through a sim. Also, try duping the original electric, reverse it, compress it enough to change the nature of the transient, maybe throw a little slap delay on it, reverse it back and then slide it around until it feels right, then throw a sim on that.

[Ol' Betsey]

Originally Posted by leebridges

if they tracked to a click, copy the 2nd chorus guitar to a second track at the time of the 1st chorus...etc...or if the progression repeats, copy the first progression to the second on a second track, and vice-versa. make sense?

I know exactly what you mean and use it frequently when needed.

And even if they didn't play to click I've just had amazing results using Elastic Audio and taking a lead guitar that was done as a guide during some demos (and not to a click) and dropping it into a 'clicked' album version.

Say what you will about Elastic Audio but used correctly, and obviously not too drastically, you can get great results.

And I think it would work great tightening up a 'double' as such.

R.

[RockManDan]

+1 for the method of chopping and splicing. Ive done it many times and it can work wonders. Basically you find a riff that repeats and you layer the different repeats over each other, taking care to alternate which repeats are over which originals. Ideally you would be able to get enough repeats of a given riff to make 3 whole tracks in which the same performance never overlaps itself. This way, you can keep the original track loud like you were mixing just one, then mix in the other two comp tracks hard panned L and R to add fullness. Sometimes you dont want to have that obviously doubled sound, but you still want a thickness, so just keep the main track on top and blend the comp tracks, maybe bringing them up on the chorus. This can also help when a solo is performed live with the band, and you can put a rhthym guitar underneath it.

also you can try a small mono room reverb on one side and a different, yet similarly tweaked, room reverb on another side.

another +1 for the L/R 20/40 ms delay plus +/- 6 cents pitch shift trick. Do it right and you end up with a cool late-Van Halen sound, if thats your thing. DO it wrong and you have a phasey mess.

a single-tap echo or delay timed to an 1/8th or 1/4 note and panned hard can do a lot to spread out the mix.
-Dan

[RCM - Ronan]

There is nothing wrong with your scenario. I would much rather mix a record with one guitar than 20, any day of the week.

For inspirations listen to U2s vertigo, Tools Aenima album, any early Van Halen, Lots of Rage against the Machine.

Big bass with some texture will help a lot.

[Waltz Mastering]

Double it and use an "amp farm" even though the original is not clean.

Try an AC 30 on clean setting with a big cab setting (add distortion as needed).

TW

[Farm sounds]

Some great ideas. Listen to VH "Running with the devil" for inspiration. I would maybe try the plate panned to one side for the verses, and then in the chorus have the double trick take effect.

[gwailoh]

Originally Posted by rcm

There is nothing wrong with your scenario. I would much rather mix a record with one guitar than 20, any day of the week.

For inspirations listen to U2s vertigo, Tools Aenima album, any early Van Halen, Lots of Rage against the Machine.

Big bass with some texture will help a lot.

Bad Company...

[theblue1]

I scanned the answers above -- but apologies if this was covered earlier...


Like others, I have mixed feelings about putting the original guitar on one side and a slightly delayed copy on the other.

But a variation on that that can work well without getting the Elliott Smith out-of-time-echo on one side (love Elliott but some of his tracks drive me nuts because of that) is to put the original guitar in the center and then slightly differently delayed copies to either side, possibly pitch-shifting them by slight amounts. Since the 'satellite' copies don't have to carry the same kind of weight that a single opposite-side copy might have to, you can lower their levels considerably, getting just enough level to get a big guitar sound.

Also, I think it was covered above, but on occasion, when working to the grid, I've been able to beef up the overall guitar sound by copying the guitar from another verse and/or chorus in. (Obviously, if there are non-parallel change-ups from one section to another this may not work.)

[kafka]

Originally Posted by casey_outlaw

A little distortion on the bass seems to help a good bit in filling it out.

Originally Posted by rcm

Big bass with some texture will help a lot.

A nice bright bass sound helps to fill out that range that the rhythm guitar usually occupies. Think of John Entwistle (or RATM, or countless others). That sound largely comes from the strings, and might be impossible to EQ up. If it's impractical to re-track a guitar, you might be able to re-track the bass DI with some out-of-the-package strings instead. You may have to re-write the part to be really effective. You also might try doubling the bass with a VI piano, if it doesn't sound too out-of-place.

Also, a good cymbal hit at the right time sometimes is confused for the guitar if blended well. Use those sparingly or it becomes obvious.

[Fu Schnickens]

Originally Posted by rcm

There is nothing wrong with your scenario. I would much rather mix a record with one guitar than 20, any day of the week.

For inspirations listen to U2s vertigo, Tools Aenima album, any early Van Halen, Lots of Rage against the Machine.

Big bass with some texture will help a lot.

Thanks for the ideas. I was hoping to keep a single guitar vibe, but I don't like the lopsided panning that usually happens w/ one guit. I want the one guitar to fill out the stereo field, not be on one side only. These are great ideas, and I'm going to try each to see what's more to my liking.
No click, but I'll try the cut & paste thing anyway. Just have to earhole it (as opposed to "eyeball"). Someone had the idea to duplicate the track, hard pan, and then flip phase on the copy. Drawbacks? Phase mess?

[RKrizman]

Originally Posted by Fu Schnickens

Someone had the idea to duplicate the track, hard pan, and then flip phase on the copy. Drawbacks? Phase mess?

Phase mess. It will make your listeners feel like there is something wrong with their hearing.

I'm with RCM on this. Be happy it's just one guitar. Have you heard it yet? It might already fill the window. With no other guitars fighting it, you can eq and compress it to make it as large as you want. Treat it like you would a lead vocal. Put little delays and a touch of harmonizer effect, but keep it low so the guitar still sounds natural, but big. If it's a more drawn out ambient part, try adding a couple of eight note or dotted eight delays, with some feedback, at s;lightly different delay times, panned hard. Then slightly and slowly modulate the delayed signal to give it a little motion and pitch shift. Then send those delays to an appropriate sized reverb. Balance to taste.

All kinds of things you can do with one guitar. I almost never double guitars for this reason.

-R