Ribbon microphones for overheads

SLy_drums · 28th June 2005, 03:30 PM

Hi there !

After having been interested into Daniel Bergstrand's (In Flames, Meshuggah, Darkane, Soilwork, Shovel, Strapping Young Lad, Aqme studio sound engineer and producer) gear by looking to the studio pics on the bands websites, i noticed that he uses ribbon mics for overheads, as you can see here :

What are those mics ??

They look comparable to the new APEX 210 ribbon mics but I think those are not.

I use AKG C414 around my drums, running into a Mindprint DTC, and it sounds veryyyyyy good.
Can ribbon mics bring something "different" to the cymbal sound ??

Thanks!

nobtwiddler · 28th June 2005, 03:37 PM

I could be wrong, but they look like the new NADY ribbon mics.
Have not used them so I can't comment on those particular models.
But I have used the Royer SF-12 stereo ribbon as an overhead mic on every session I have done for the last few years, and I can tell you that is it fabulous!

As a matter of fact, I will be using it today again for basic tracking.

The ribbon makes the entire kit sound wonderful, and there is no harshness whatsoever from the cymbals. Smoooooth........
And it really can take a lot of EQ'ing in the mix with no bad artifacts.
I've also used the Coles 4038, with great results, but nothing captures the drums set as nicely as does the Royers.
But that's only me...
Paul

orange · 28th June 2005, 04:05 PM

yes...they look like the nady ribbon to me.

also sold as and Apex or T-bone plus probably other makes as well. The different badges also mean slightly different grills.

I've got a couple of the T-bones - haven't used them as overheads but love them on acoustic.

si

Jay Kahrs · 28th June 2005, 05:23 PM

There's entirely too many mics on that kit! I count six on 'overheads' which is 4 or 5 mics too many for that application IMHO. But hey...whatever's working right? LOL

In general ribbon mics have a smoother, more natural high frequency response then condensor mics. You can get some smooth top without getting grainy or hard sounding, and since ribbon mics are inherently figure 8 you'll get a bit more ambient room tone which, if your in a decent room usually makes the kit sound more natural.

C/G · 28th June 2005, 05:30 PM

The black one looks like an Oktava ML-52 or the new Electro Harmonix ribbon which is basically the same thing.

jbuntz · 28th June 2005, 05:50 PM

The black one is not an ML52. They have a different grille and more rounded top. In general, ribbons on overheads is a much smoother sound with more detail in the midrange and bottom from the drums as compared to a condensor.

GPl · 28th June 2005, 05:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jay Kahrs

There's entirely too many mics on that kit! I count six on 'overheads' which is 4 or 5 mics too many for that application IMHO. But hey...whatever's working right? LOL

In general ribbon mics have a smoother, more natural high frequency response then condensor mics. You can get some smooth top without getting grainy or hard sounding, and since ribbon mics are inherently figure 8 you'll get a bit more ambient room tone which, if your in a decent room usually makes the kit sound more natural.

I agree...lotta OH's there, could this be an attempt at capturing for surround

not_so_new · 28th June 2005, 06:07 PM

Yep to many over heads for my taste but to each his own.

I have seen guys do this before it looks like he is trying to mic each cymbal like you would do with each drum, I have never liked the result much but YMMV.

If you are close micing cymbals like this guy is doing then yes I would strongly suggest a ribbon to smooth them out a bit but I would not recommend this approach to get a drum sound. On the other hand it could work just great for this kit/song/drummer/room so what do I know.

I have a pair of the Nady ribbons (different name badge on mine but they all come from the same manufacturer in China). My "Nady" ribbons are dark, not something I would use on over heads but they are killer for room mics....

YMMV (again).

djgout · 28th June 2005, 06:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Colin Gaucher

The black one looks like an Oktava ML-52 or the new Electro Harmonix ribbon which is basically the same thing.

it's the mkl2500 oktava's guitar center tube mic.

Jay Kahrs · 28th June 2005, 06:17 PM

Ya know...since ribbon mics don't like blasts of moving air, I gotta wonder about putting ribbon mics that close to cymbals since they tend to displace and move a lot of air when struck.

mikedaul · 28th June 2005, 06:26 PM

I had the same thought. And also, being that ribon mics inherently fragile, those look to be setup a bit too close within striking distance of the drummer...

warhead · 28th June 2005, 06:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jay Kahrs

Ya know...since ribbon mics don't like blasts of moving air, I gotta wonder about putting ribbon mics that close to cymbals since they tend to displace and move a lot of air when struck.

I think big honkin' palm muted guitars would be the problem at super high decibals, cause those can throw literally a freakin' gust of air out...not the cymbal swish though.

I'm typically much further out though with the ribbon.

War

Curtis Franklin · 28th June 2005, 06:50 PM

i dont think he is going for "overheads" it seems there are so many, because they are cymbal mics. never having used ribbons my theory is that ribbons have some property that reject the other things going on the kit. also a user commented that they tend to work well being drastically eqed. i do this sometimes when i am isolating my cymbals for loopig work. what are your guys's thoughts.

SLy_drums · 28th June 2005, 06:54 PM

All that is very interessant !

Daniel Bergstrand is used to be called as an "experimenting man", and each time the drums sound very good, especially cymbals ! He doesn't use the same mics each time he records a drummer, but he always uses "cymbal mics".
The DDRUM trigger on the snare is not there to trigger the shell, but to make the snare noise gate working.

C/G · 28th June 2005, 09:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jbuntz

The black one is not an ML52. They have a different grille and more rounded top. In general, ribbons on overheads is a much smoother sound with more detail in the midrange and bottom from the drums as compared to a condensor.

You are correct sir, my bad. I did not look at the grille close enough. That one has mesh and not the slots like the Oktava.

At least I got the brand name right.

everybody's x · 28th June 2005, 09:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jay Kahrs

Ya know...since ribbon mics don't like blasts of moving air, I gotta wonder about putting ribbon mics that close to cymbals since they tend to displace and move a lot of air when struck.

at less than $200 each he probably doesn't care. blow it up and buy another.

andy_simpson · 28th June 2005, 10:27 PM

Looks to me like he's deliberately only mic'ing the cymbals up, and won't have a conventional o/h with the whole kit in it, looking at the angles, and where the toms/snare would project......

My guess is that he high-pass'd all those cymbal mic's well above 1k.....but that's allot of phasey-room getting into the back of all those mics!

Andy

SLy_drums · 29th June 2005, 07:15 AM

I have an other pic of the In Flames drum session, I wonder what mic preamps Bergstrand uses (we can easily see a DTC).
Look at the pic :

What are those green boxes at the center of the pic ? Are they preamps ?

aevan · 29th June 2005, 08:22 AM

Could be an Echoplex EP2 - a tape delay. The one underneath looks like a Roland space echo, so I'm only puttin 2 and 2 together.

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28th June 2005, 03:30 PM	#1
SLy_drums Lives for gear Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 598	Ribbon microphones for overheads Hi there ! After having been interested into Daniel Bergstrand's (In Flames, Meshuggah, Darkane, Soilwork, Shovel, Strapping Young Lad, Aqme studio sound engineer and producer) gear by looking to the studio pics on the bands websites, i noticed that he uses ribbon mics for overheads, as you can see here : What are those mics ?? They look comparable to the new APEX 210 ribbon mics but I think those are not. I use AKG C414 around my drums, running into a Mindprint DTC, and it sounds veryyyyyy good. Can ribbon mics bring something "different" to the cymbal sound ?? Thanks!

28th June 2005, 03:37 PM	#2
nobtwiddler Lives for gear Join Date: May 2005 Location: Millbrook, NY Posts: 971	Royers everyday! I could be wrong, but they look like the new NADY ribbon mics. Have not used them so I can't comment on those particular models. But I have used the Royer SF-12 stereo ribbon as an overhead mic on every session I have done for the last few years, and I can tell you that is it fabulous! As a matter of fact, I will be using it today again for basic tracking. The ribbon makes the entire kit sound wonderful, and there is no harshness whatsoever from the cymbals. Smoooooth........ And it really can take a lot of EQ'ing in the mix with no bad artifacts. I've also used the Coles 4038, with great results, but nothing captures the drums set as nicely as does the Royers. But that's only me... Paul

28th June 2005, 05:30 PM	#5
C/G Lives for gear Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Canada Posts: 2,798	The black one looks like an Oktava ML-52 or the new Electro Harmonix ribbon which is basically the same thing. __________________ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Colin G. http://www.myspace.com/generalsandmajors

28th June 2005, 06:07 PM	#8
not_so_new Lives for gear Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 5,588	Yep to many over heads for my taste but to each his own. I have seen guys do this before it looks like he is trying to mic each cymbal like you would do with each drum, I have never liked the result much but YMMV. If you are close micing cymbals like this guy is doing then yes I would strongly suggest a ribbon to smooth them out a bit but I would not recommend this approach to get a drum sound. On the other hand it could work just great for this kit/song/drummer/room so what do I know. I have a pair of the Nady ribbons (different name badge on mine but they all come from the same manufacturer in China). My "Nady" ribbons are dark, not something I would use on over heads but they are killer for room mics.... YMMV (again). __________________ "As democracy is perfected, the office of president represents, more and more closely, the inner soul of the people. On some great and glorious day the plain folks of the land will reach their heart's desire at last and the White House will be adorned by a downright moron." H.L. Mencken 1880 - 1956 ____________________________________________ Michael

28th June 2005, 04:05 PM	#3
orange Lives for gear Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: London Posts: 1,663	yes...they look like the nady ribbon to me. also sold as and Apex or T-bone plus probably other makes as well. The different badges also mean slightly different grills. I've got a couple of the T-bones - haven't used them as overheads but love them on acoustic. si

28th June 2005, 05:50 PM	#6
jbuntz Lives for gear Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 1,650	The black one is not an ML52. They have a different grille and more rounded top. In general, ribbons on overheads is a much smoother sound with more detail in the midrange and bottom from the drums as compared to a condensor.

28th June 2005, 06:26 PM	#11
mikedaul Gear Head Join Date: Jan 2003 Posts: 63	I had the same thought. And also, being that ribon mics inherently fragile, those look to be setup a bit too close within striking distance of the drummer...

28th June 2005, 06:50 PM	#13
Curtis Franklin Lives for gear Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Southern California Posts: 529	i dont think he is going for "overheads" it seems there are so many, because they are cymbal mics. never having used ribbons my theory is that ribbons have some property that reject the other things going on the kit. also a user commented that they tend to work well being drastically eqed. i do this sometimes when i am isolating my cymbals for loopig work. what are your guys's thoughts.

28th June 2005, 06:54 PM	#14
SLy_drums Lives for gear Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 598	All that is very interessant ! Daniel Bergstrand is used to be called as an "experimenting man", and each time the drums sound very good, especially cymbals ! He doesn't use the same mics each time he records a drummer, but he always uses "cymbal mics". The DDRUM trigger on the snare is not there to trigger the shell, but to make the snare noise gate working.

28th June 2005, 10:27 PM	#17
andy_simpson Gear addict Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Poland Posts: 497	Looks to me like he's deliberately only mic'ing the cymbals up, and won't have a conventional o/h with the whole kit in it, looking at the angles, and where the toms/snare would project...... My guess is that he high-pass'd all those cymbal mic's well above 1k.....but that's allot of phasey-room getting into the back of all those mics! Andy

29th June 2005, 07:15 AM	#18
SLy_drums Lives for gear Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 598	I have an other pic of the In Flames drum session, I wonder what mic preamps Bergstrand uses (we can easily see a DTC). Look at the pic : What are those green boxes at the center of the pic ? Are they preamps ?

29th June 2005, 08:22 AM	#19
aevan Gear maniac Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Australia Posts: 217	Could be an Echoplex EP2 - a tape delay. The one underneath looks like a Roland space echo, so I'm only puttin 2 and 2 together.

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