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accoustic treatment for rehearsal room
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jayjames
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#1
27th June 2005
Old 27th June 2005
  #1
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accoustic treatment for rehearsal room

My band rents a rehearsal studio in the basement of a large warehouse. The walls and ceiling are all concrete. We'd like to cut down on the screaming reflection frequencies from the drums and electric guitar. Before we go spending money on what I think are useless foam egg crates, does anyone have any suggestions on what can be done to deaden the room?
#2
28th June 2005
Old 28th June 2005
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It all depends on your budget and what you are trying achieve. Hanging big heavy cloth packing blankets in key areas of initial reflections will help. Markertek sells them for 20 bucks a piece. Some 703 insulation in 2X4 sheets covered with some cheap and cheerful porous material from WalMart does a decent job also. You can build a wood frame around them to help in mounting them. You could also call one of the many acoustic supply manufacturers and describe to them what you want to do. They would be happy to recommend a solution to you that could run anywhere from a few hundred dollars to a few thousand. Just remember if you deaden the room too much by absorbing all the mid and upper frequencies you'll end up with a very boomy, muddy and uninspiring sounding practice space. There is a great web forum from John Sayers that has tons of this type of info. I think it might be Johnsayers.com. If not, Google him, you'll find it. Good luck.
#3
28th June 2005
Old 28th June 2005
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Jay,

Chuck gave you some great advice, so I'll just mention that there's a lot of solid info about this in my Acoustics FAQ:

www.ethanwiner.com/acoustics.html

There's a lot of additional information on my company's site, linked under my name below.

--Ethan
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#4
10th May 2010
Old 10th May 2010
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I am about to make something similar but due to size of the room and my lack of rockwool, will 2x2 traps help as I will have more to spread out?

Also when treating a live room, is the air gap as important with the traps?

I already have a checkerboard pattern of foam in the room but its still extremely lively and has a fair bit of flutter echo. The ceiling also stars off very low at the front but as its angled it gets very high (about 20ft) at the end of the room.

I dont want to have to put blankets etc up as I'm trying to keep a fairly professional look about the studio/rehearsal room if possible.

Let me know what you guys think!
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#5
10th May 2010
Old 10th May 2010
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Ethan's site + John Sayers site = everything you need to know ever... ever. Whether or not you read it is your choice.
#6
13th May 2010
Old 13th May 2010
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After reading both sites, I've got a pretty good idea now of what to do. John's table of absorbing coefficients were really interesting and really put a lot of things into perspective i.e (how heavy curtains do hardly anything for absorbtion under 4khz etc)

Whats of course very important is bass trapping, I dont want to kill all the highs and make it sound too boomy. However, placement of bass trapping can be tricky. I thought it'd be best to show you the pictures of both rooms I am treating. Both rooms as you can see are very different.

Ok, so firstly this is the 2nd live room underneath my control room. It doubles and a rehearsal space and live room.



Apologies for the mess, thats the last thing on my mind right now! haha. The two traps on stands are just experiments. They were upstairs in the control room but I'm just seeing if they'd help downstairs.

Here is another angle



As you can see I've attempted a mixture of hard and soft surfaces in a checkerboard pattern but unfortunately I'm low on the left over auralex foam that I bought for my home studio years ago..



There are two windows to the right for soundproofing. Thats simply got 2inch fibreglass in a frame covered with material.


Below here is from the opposite end. Those foam auralex bass traps in the left corner wont be staying there! The right hand corner has a door which leads to the kitchen so its difficult to bass trap there.


There are plenty of options for bass trapping the ceiling and atleast 3 corners of the room but I wanted to get a few pointers if you guys may find it interesting!

I'll post the 2nd live room in another post.
#7
13th May 2010
Old 13th May 2010
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This room below has even less treatment, however one wall is completely covered in soft absorbtion.



Here below you can see how high the ceiling is. I'm not sure whether this is going to be a good or bad thing!



I'm consdering a fair bit of 4inch bass trap absorbtion behind the drum kit.

Here you can get a perspective of the rooms add shape aswell as the toilet room is within this room! haha



Another



Here is from the other angle, as you can see Ive treated the entire wall because it was very much like a showroom window which was letting through a great deal of sound so it all needed to be covered.



Down that end of the room there is terrible amount of flutter echo which I'm worried might cause a big problem.

I plan to also bass trap this corner aswell



So there you go, if there is anyonr that could give a few pointers it would be greatly appreciated!

Thanks

Ash
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13th May 2010
Old 13th May 2010
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You can likely accomplish a fair amount of bass trapping by stuffing absorption above your drop ceiling. Flutter echo is easy to deal with as it's a high frequency issue. That's where your curtains may come in handy. Or, even better would be some panels made of 2'x4' boards of 703 (or equivalent)...try to use the 2" thickness for this.

The high ceilings in your one room can be made to work to your advantage if you opt for diffusion above 8' or so. This is the concept that Russ Berger and Auralex are trying to sell. The idea here is you turn the upper part of your room into a reverb chamber of sorts, and use diffusion to de-correlate the reverb tail to make it smooth. I don't think you need expensive diffusion up there to make it happen....perhaps a bunch of well placed polys.

I tend to think that you can get away with a deader room for a rehearsal space as opposed to a tracking room. Isolation is likely to be the biggest issue to be faced with multiple bands in close proximity. Nothing kills a vibe faster than having someone else's music pump through when your band is attempting to put some 'space' in their tunes.

Cheers

Kris
#9
14th May 2010
Old 14th May 2010
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ash Taylor View Post
I am about to make something similar but due to size of the room and my lack of rockwool, will 2x2 traps help as I will have more to spread out?

Also when treating a live room, is the air gap as important with the traps?

I already have a checkerboard pattern of foam in the room but its still extremely lively and has a fair bit of flutter echo. The ceiling also stars off very low at the front but as its angled it gets very high (about 20ft) at the end of the room.

I dont want to have to put blankets etc up as I'm trying to keep a fairly professional look about the studio/rehearsal room if possible.

Let me know what you guys think!
You need some diffusion to break up the flutter echos without making the room too dead.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rcb4t2 View Post
Ethan's site + John Sayers site = everything you need to know ever... ever. Whether or not you read it is your choice.
The material that Ethan has on his site concerning diffusion is quite misleading. The material John has is somewhat better, but he admits to a anti diffusion bias in the control room. (Ethan of course never admits to any bias at all, ever. He just has one.)

I'd Recommend Phillip Newell's book on studio design:
Recording Studio Design, Second Edition,

$89.95 from Focal Press as a good text on acoustic treatment.......
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#10
14th May 2010
Old 14th May 2010
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ash Taylor View Post
After reading both sites, I've got a pretty good idea now of what to do. John's table of absorbing coefficients were really interesting and really put a lot of things into perspective i.e (how heavy curtains do hardly anything for absorbtion under 4khz etc)

Whats of course very important is bass trapping, I dont want to kill all the highs and make it sound too boomy. However, placement of bass trapping can be tricky. I thought it'd be best to show you the pictures of both rooms I am treating. Both rooms as you can see are very different.

Ok, so firstly this is the 2nd live room underneath my control room. It doubles and a rehearsal space and live room.



Apologies for the mess, thats the last thing on my mind right now! haha. The two traps on stands are just experiments. They were upstairs in the control room but I'm just seeing if they'd help downstairs.

Here is another angle



As you can see I've attempted a mixture of hard and soft surfaces in a checkerboard pattern but unfortunately I'm low on the left over auralex foam that I bought for my home studio years ago..



There are two windows to the right for soundproofing. Thats simply got 2inch fibreglass in a frame covered with material.


Below here is from the opposite end. Those foam auralex bass traps in the left corner wont be staying there! The right hand corner has a door which leads to the kitchen so its difficult to bass trap there.


There are plenty of options for bass trapping the ceiling and atleast 3 corners of the room but I wanted to get a few pointers if you guys may find it interesting!

I'll post the 2nd live room in another post.
As it's used as a live room you DEFINITELY Need to apply some diffusion, not all absorption, or you'll sound like you're playing under a wet blanket. By all means trap the corners. On the walls you need approximately 1/3 coverage in absorption and 1/3 coverage in diffusion, correctly placed. Diffusion should be of the 2-dimensional type, not the one dimensional stuff that Ethan pushes. You'll either want skyline style (as John mentions on his site and is sold by RPG, among others), or tiles such as sold by Auralex, RPG, and others arranged in vertical and horizontal orientation to create a 2-D array..

Oh, one other thing - get those amps out of the corners of the room!
#11
14th May 2010
Old 14th May 2010
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John, I realize you've got a beef with Ethan, but there's really nothing wrong with 1-D QRD diffusion. It's pretty easy to DIY, and breaks up parallel wall reflections quite nicely. Skylines and omnifusers are nice, but would get pretty spendy in order to cover 1/3rd of a room.

Also, if you put up bass traps in frames, the frames themselves will offer some diffusion. These are dead simple to DIY.


Cheers

Kris

PS: In my earlier post I didn't realize that the rehearsal rooms are serving double duty as tracking rooms.
#12
14th May 2010
Old 14th May 2010
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OK guys, well I'm considering building one of those QRD diffusors for starts to see how I get on. I'm also probably going to build about 4 bass traps to start.

I'm just about to look up blueprints on how do design those diffusors but does anyone have any designs off hand?

Thanks
#13
14th May 2010
Old 14th May 2010
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John Eppstein View Post
The material that Ethan has on his site concerning diffusion is quite misleading ... I'd Recommend Phillip Newell's book on studio design
There is nothing misleading in my All About Diffusion video. Further, if you actually read Newell's book you'd see that he recommends 1D QRD diffusors. That's the first diffusor type he describes, and it's also the type shown in the accompanying photos.

John, please stop your anti-Ethan agenda. It's very tiring, and it just shows your own ignorance.

--Ethan

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#14
14th May 2010
Old 14th May 2010
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But some people never tire of their own ignorance!
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