Tracking with Compressor why??

[Mike Brown]

Originally Posted by Musiclab

If you really think there is no compression on those michael jackson records I have a bridge I'd like to sell you. Thriller was mastered for vinyl.
and Peacock, maybe for YOU compression makes the sounds worse, but maybe not for the rest of the world

+1000 thumbsupthumbsupthumbsupthumbsup

I forget where this quote comes from... but it goes something like this:

If anyone questions your heavy use of compression, shoot them in the face, go to the funeral, record the funeral, compress the crap out of the recording, and send mp3's to the family.

[Cursed Lemon]

I don't compress things on the way in because I'm just attuned to have the most dry, "naked" tracks to work with (makes me a better mic positioner, as well), and because I record at the prescribed -18dbFS levels so that there's really no real danger of clipping even with a wild singer (provided they don't go crashing through the pop filter). If I need a different kind of compression I can stack compressors after tape.

Also, 24 bit FTW.

[Johns]

Sometimes I compress going in, sometimes not. Depends on the day, vocalist/instrumentalist, song, instrumentation, etc. No set rules. Just do what works at the moment.

[robertshaw]

this is kinda old thread....... anyway tracking w/ a compressor is generally bad idea with the exception of say vocals within an analog tape environment. Really no point in the digital domain but if you are really confident, and really want to use an outboard comp lots of people still do comp while tracking. I only do it if the singer is really dynamic and only on analog.
I never print comps to tape except for vox and occasionally bass if I really know its right. You can't go back...........

[bexarametric]

Originally Posted by Peacock

I never track with a compressor. I also try my best not to use it in mixing as well. The more you compress the worse the sound becomes.

Most are addicted to compression because it increases perceived volume. The increased perception of volume is mistaken for better sound.

However, the perceived loudness also imparts a side effect by sacrificing the sound and natural dynamics.

"Yeah, well that's just like your opinion man" - The Dude

I like compression. It's fun. Not always though.

[Musiclab]

Originally Posted by robertshaw

this is kinda old thread....... anyway tracking w/ a compressor is generally bad idea with the exception of say vocals within an analog tape environment. Really no point in the digital domain but if you are really confident, and really want to use an outboard comp lots of people still do comp while tracking. I only do it if the singer is really dynamic and only on analog.
I never print comps to tape except for vox and occasionally bass if I really know its right. You can't go back...........

respectfully I completely disagree, if you're using so much that you have to worry about ruining a track you maybe need to learn how to use a compressor.

[robertshaw]

Originally Posted by Musiclab

respectfully I completely disagree, if you're using so much that you have to worry about ruining a track you maybe need to learn how to use a compressor.

that really wasn't my point it was more like the noise floor with analog it may be important or if you have a special piece of outboard you like but in the digital domain by all means track with it. If you are all ITB digital maybe not? How many people really know how to use a compressor anyway? everything is so over-compressed in pop music today I have a tough time believing many people have really learned how to use a learn how to use a compressor for what it was intended (dynamics) but many have wonderfully mastered the art of using a comp as an fx device. Anyway in a nice way...... if someone has to ask if they should use a compressor while tracking, then chances are they don't know how to use one, hence...... be safe and don't track with it.

it's not as bad as gating to tape but even the most experienced person can still make a mistakes how ever rare they may be?

not a big deal........

[Doc Mixwell]

1) Go for a sound???

2) Make a choice???

3) Live with a Decision???

4) I gotta even out the dynamic on this source in relation to the music??

5) I gotta limit this source, as I do not want it going over ____???

6) I gotta squash a track??

7) I gotta sheer and envelope the attack of the sound??

8) I gotta make something pump and breath??

9) I don't want something to be too dynamic??

10) I want more low level detail and I want to make the quiet parts even with the loud parts???

11) I actually have time to properly set and manipulate compression/limiting on the source basing processing on the relative audio next to the source.

12) I don't actually have time, and I'll be mixing the tune, Then I'll just do it later when I can space out and get way more complex with the timing envelope of the sources Dynamics.

[alkooloid]

Yeah, MR. Sort of duh to me, but maybe I'm compression happy.fuuck

[Unclenny]

Originally Posted by robertshaw

....... anyway tracking w/ a compressor is generally bad idea with the exception of say vocals

Hey, Robert....

For a guy like me, tracking through a humble MBox and using a set of mix parameters in which I have serious confidence, tracking with compression that I know I'll deploy eventually lets me use a hardware comp instead of a plug.

I think that may be a good thing.

Plus...as mentioned....I love to commit.

I can't put down my bass tracks without it.....need to hear what I going to put out there while I'm doing it.

[Musiclab]

Originally Posted by robertshaw

that really wasn't my point it was more like the noise floor with analog it may be important or if you have a special piece of outboard you like but in the digital domain by all means track with it. If you are all ITB digital maybe not? How many people really know how to use a compressor anyway? everything is so over-compressed in pop music today I have a tough time believing many people have really learned how to use a learn how to use a compressor for what it was intended (dynamics) but many have wonderfully mastered the art of using a comp as an fx device. Anyway in a nice way...... if someone has to ask if they should use a compressor while tracking, then chances are they don't know how to use one, hence...... be safe and don't track with it.

it's not as bad as gating to tape but even the most experienced person can still make a mistakes how ever rare they may be?

not a big deal........

Maybe my perspective is different because I tend to work on fairly hi track count dense productions, but I find that when say a vocal is not tracked with a compressor the amount of chasing the vocal level around increases dramatically, recently I mixed an album by a very talented female singer songwriter who like many others to save money, records as much as she can at home. She has a good mic and pre but had no compressor for a while and when she recorded her vocals they were tough to get to sit right in the track during the mix. And mind you thats with using a either a CL1b or an the compressor in the Oram Al Schmitt box which is pretty great. I got her to buy an Aphex 651 which is by no means a great compressor but is a solid reliable
not going to ruin your audio compressor. She tracked the remaining vocals with it using light compression on the way in. That box has a lot of knobs but I showed her what to do, after all it's NOT rocket science. The difference in the remaining tracks in terms of ease and sound was apparent, I think also hearing that little bit of compression might have helped her performance.
Maybe if your doing real open sounding sparse music you can not compress, but I'm still willing to bet that provided you're not using a piece of garbage
or totally smashing it, the compressed track will be better for the mix.

[jonathan jetter]

compress on the way in for a few reasons-

some singers respond better...if they can hear their quieter notes better in the phones, their pitch will be better. if their loud notes don't get super loud in the phones, they dig in harder.

obviously this is very dependent on the singer and the song.

also....i only have 8 channels of analog compression (only 3 of which are really high-end), so hitting the lead vocal hard on the way in frees up the MC77 for something else come mix time.

i would say overall i compress most things to a much lesser extent than i used to. the things that i really want to smack around though, i am willing to hit a lot harder. a lot of hard rock isn't gonna sound right until the GR meters on the vocal compressor start hitting -10 or -15 once in a while.

[robertshaw]

Originally Posted by Unclenny

Plus...as mentioned....I love to commit.

I love commitment

one of the reasons I don't like to compress w/ digital is I find stuff like autotune and doubler plugins work better
without compression. So I'll insert the comp after autotune but before a reverb. It's just more flexible.

I often use my distressor with cookie monster vocalists during tracking at which time I will print it.
Analog tape I always compress to tape to keep the noise floor of tape to a minimum at mix.

Different situation different approaches, I don't think its a bad idea in all situations. It's been done
while tracking for 40+ years with great success, but w/ digital and plugins I find it often works better go to
the DAW dry? all depends though

[Unclenny]

Originally Posted by robertshaw

one of the reasons I don't like to compress w/ digital is I find stuff like autotune and doubler plugins work better
without compression. So I'll insert the comp after autotune but before a reverb. It's just more flexible.

Good reasoning........nothing like an informative and specific answer.

[u b k]

For whatever it's worth, despite the debates that simmer in perpetuity in these waters, I can count on two fingers the number of working engineers I've ever witnessed in the studio who used no compression on anything on the way in. In my experience it's incredibly rare, it's just that those who are 'opposed' to it are more vocal than those who don't give it a second thought, so (imo) they're over-represented on these threads which gives the impression that there's a genuine debate in the field when my experience says otherwise. My take is that when you have 7 days to record and mix 10 songs, you don't have time or desire to preserve your options, and when you've been doing this day in and day out on a neverending flow of new material for a decade you get extremely agile with your tools and your techniques.

I actually do *most* of my compression on the way in, possibly because I know what I want to hear and I use tools that respond accordingly. If I were a brain surgeon I would likely heed the admonitions of my colleagues, but this is art, and I find risk-aversion to be the exact opposite of what great art requires.


Gregory Scott - ubk

[Dean Roddey]

Sometimes I just turn on a couple compressors when I'm not even tracking or mixing, just on principles.

[Radiogal]

FWIW:
For me:
ONLY a slight transparent 2-4:1 compresion with high treshold -10 just for recording level protection on variable high dynamic sources like vocals.
NO compression on any other recordings! I´ll keep the source signal as clean as possible. For sure NO EQ either!!!

If the singer needs a compressed sound? Can´t actually see why cuz it will mess up the singers voice controll intuition.
But if you still want to do that try to buss out/patch a copy of the recording signal thru a compressor and send that to the HP aux instead.

IMO I find it no good to record anything with EQ or compressor.
Over/compressed recorded tracks can´t be undone later in the mix .. and it´s often hard to decide the right amount of both EQ and compression in a recording situation when NONE (or only a very few) of the tracks are in balance anyway, nor edited, nor mixed.

So instead, I do putting a lot of efford in using the right mic and mic tecnique to catch the instruments desired sweetspot(s) as the EQ (phase shifting) and compressor (dynamic corruption) only will destroy that original great sound of the source.
One can always compress and EQ, with 100% better judgement, later on while mixing.
Just my 2 cents..

[jonathan jetter]

Originally Posted by Radiogal

If the singer needs a compressed sound? Can´t actually see why cuz it will mess up the singers voice controll intuition.
But if you still want to do that try to buss out/patch a copy of the recording signal thru a compressor and send that to the HP aux instead.

not all singers have good control or intuition. some of the most interesting voices i've recorded were also some of the least experienced in the studio

Originally Posted by Radiogal

IMO I find it no good to record anything with EQ or compressor.
Over/compressed recorded tracks can´t be undone later in the mix .. and it´s often hard to decide the right amount of both EQ and compression in a recording situation when NONE (or only a very few) of the tracks are in balance anyway, nor edited, nor mixed.

i make sure that my listening balance during the tracking session is a functional mix. getting used to shaping sounds on the way in has made me far more decisive, and it has the added benefit of the artist hearing their record sounding like a record right away.

Originally Posted by Radiogal

So instead, do try putting the efford in using the right mic and mic tecnique to catch the instruments desired sweetspot(s) as the EQ (phase shifting) and compressor (dynamic corruption) only will destroy that original great sound of the source.

agreed on mic placement, but i seriously disagree that phase shift from EQ will destroy sound or that compressors are inherently guilty of dynamic corruption.

i also think you can't get away from affecting your sound. transformers in mics and preamps will affect things. negative feedback circuits in microphones will affect phase integrity.

the key is to have enough of a vision for the song to where you can be confident as to whether any given decision is helping or hurting the recording process.

[teo]

Originally Posted by Musiclab

If you really think there is no compression on those michael jackson records I have a bridge I'd like to sell you.

Thank you...
I think at some point Mr. Swedien should clarify this, because a lot of people are buying into the fact that MJ albums had no compression on vocals. Unless he really meant that, then I might consider a different career, since I hear a lot of (beautiful!) compression on those vocals.

Me, I like to track with some transparent-ish soft knee compression catching peaks, and if I feel like it I'll strap something more on monitor while tracking. My only aggressive compressor is the Sta Level, and I have to say that I don't feel confident enough (yet!) to track through it...

[Mike P]

Originally Posted by Peacock

The more you compress the worse the sound becomes.

Huh?

[Bob Olhsson]

Originally Posted by Musiclab

If you really think there is no compression on those michael jackson records I have a bridge I'd like to sell you...

I'd be willing to bet there was little or none if Bruce says there was none.

Bruce's hand undoubtedly WAS on the fader and he had eye contact with the performer as each overdub was tracked. Compared to recording real dynamics in that time-honored manner, a compressor is indeed a crutch.

I wish I could record overdubs in a real studio with a real console and that my chops were up for working in that manner again. Tracking vocals has become a lost art right along with singers "working" the microphone.

[zippsinc]

Originally Posted by Mike Brown

+1000 thumbsupthumbsupthumbsupthumbsup

I forget where this quote comes from... but it goes something like this:

If anyone questions your heavy use of compression, shoot them in the face, go to the funeral, record the funeral, compress the crap out of the recording, and send mp3's to the family.

Oh heck....this made me laugh a lot. Pure class.

[robertshaw]

Originally Posted by Unclenny

Good reasoning........nothing like an informative and specific answer.

For some reason Melodyne with a compressed vocals does not seem to split up the notes as accurately as an uncompressed vocal. It saves so much time editing. But I think comping to tape is often necessary, with digital I'm on the fence. I always track my drums analog and the analog tape gives me the saturation I need providing the drummer is consistent which allows me to get good levels. If the drummer is a hack and does not hit consistently often I have to comp snare and kick at least on the way to the deck. It depends. I'm not against compressing to tape or the DAW but it all depends.

But at the end of the day you are stuck with the sound of the comp if you are using it for color and dynamics. If you feel confident you'll never want it to sound different. Go for it. I'm in general very indecisive. I don't own alot of good outboard compressors. though I'm not thrilled with too many ITB ones either

[robertshaw]

Originally Posted by Mike Brown

+1000 thumbsupthumbsupthumbsupthumbsup

I forget where this quote comes from... but it goes something like this:

If anyone questions your heavy use of compression, shoot them in the face, go to the funeral, record the funeral, compress the crap out of the recording, and send mp3's to the family.

that's sounds like something theyd do if you were in a crime family

[Mr. Light]

Personally, if I am mixing the project I use compression while tracking pretty much anything/everything. Not super heavy but I'll get the sound I know I'm looking for, same with eq (though I tend to go much lighter on the eq). I do this because I have some nice outboard gear and I prefer to use it on the way in, that way, mixing the project ITB is that much easier and I'm relying much less on my plugins. I don't have room or $ for a 60+ channel SSL so for maintaining my sanity, everything gets done in the box.

However, if the project is going to someone else for mixing I may not compress at all, maybe very lightly......except vocals! I'll ALWAYS take a little off the top of the vocals because that's the one thing that I know is going to be compressed to all hell anyway. Never had a complaint from a mix engineer.