Should I sell my UA LA-610 and get a Avalon 737?

[Dopamine]

I have a small project studio where I produce Pop, R&B, and electronica. My microphone is a TLM-103 and I use Apogee conversion. My only pre/compressor is the LA610. (I also track synths, gtr and bass DI through the UA.) I used to think that this was a decent chain. In fact, I am quite happy with the sound I am getting (but always am looking for an improvement).

But I have been reading numerous posts here that really bash the UA. Unfortunately, I don't have the money to have keep the UA and buy another pre to see which one I prefer. Should I sell the 610 and get a 737? OR should I consider one of the new Neve modules and go back to a RNC.

Just curious if any of the pro guys in here will convince me to keep the UA. I was very surprised to hear the it fared so poorly on these boards after getting good reviews in the major industry zines.

[XHipHop]

if you like what you are using, keep it. the avalon is sort of a sideways step anyway. it has shortcomings...just a different set of shortcomings than the Universal Audio. You should probably just use what you have until you get enough money to buy a few high quality pieces (seperate eq/pre/comp/etc) and come up with your vocal chain that way.

Of course, you should listen to an Avalon though and see if is right for you...maybe it will be the sound you are looking for afterall.

[Kestral]

You might want to check out a Summit MPC-100. It's a single tube preamp/compressor combo. I vastly preferred it to the Avalon 737.

[Fletcher]

Seeing that it's damn near impossible to get an Avalon anything right now... I'd say look for something else as you're probably not going to find a 737 for several months.

[XHipHop]

Originally Posted by Fletcher

Seeing that it's damn near impossible to get an Avalon anything right now... I'd say look for something else as you're probably not going to find a 737 for several months.

There is a mercenary edition on ebay!

[Dopamine]

I know of someone selling a 737, though he is out of state and I would not have the opportunity to test it out before I pay. (And there are currently 6 on Ebay.) That's why I have been tempted! Still not so sure what to do.

[tomdarude]

summit <--- my initial idea

so if you can sell the UA and stretch your budget to around 3k , you could get a

Wunderaudio PEQ1r + Summit TLA-50

the wunder is a quite modern adaption of a neve 1073, with it´s own character and I would often prefer it over the neve (e.g. stacks up better.... imho.) and the tla-50 is a real bargain-alternative to smooth vocal-comps (like e.g. tubetech, LA2A) it´s pretty nice bang for the buck....
I think that´s a really decent combo and a nice step up from the avalon and the UA....

Later on I´d def. check some other mics...the tlm103 is not the secret allround weapon really ...maybe look for a second hand U87 (older one, no "ai") or soundelux etc.

that all together would be a real nice vocal chain!!

[Art Johan]

If you're happy with the UA stick with it.
It often times is the best pre for vocals at any price.

[Dopamine]

Thanks for the advice. I do think I will hold onto the UA until I can afford something considerably better. Nice tip about the TLA-50-- I'll add that one to the list.

[fatcat]

What about the Millenia Media STT-1? It has solid state or tube pre and a bypassable tranny + 4 band parametric eq, and a switchable tube or SS comp, and a deesser, and you can move the eq before or after the comp. WOW! If it sounds as good as people say it does than it is totally worth $3000.

[u b k]

Originally Posted by fatcat

What about the Millenia Media STT-1? It has solid state or tube pre and a bypassable tranny + 4 band parametric eq, and a switchable tube or SS comp, and a deesser, and you can move the eq before or after the comp. WOW! If it sounds as good as people say it does than it is totally worth $3000.

the stt-1 is a very, very neutral box, it's one of the last things i would recommend for the styles of music the original poster is doing. if preamps were walls, the millenia would be off-white, more bone than cream. it does what it does beautifully, but it will never do exciting/fat/in-your-face.

dopamine, what's your budget?


gregoire
del ubik

[fatcat]

UBIK, he said he was tracking all the instruments through his LA610 so if he replaced that with a colorful/fat sounding pre, don't you think the mix would be a bit too fat/murky.(probably already is) I recommend he start with something more neutral and add color during mixdown. Once all that mid-bite and low-mid color/dist. that the Neve-ish pres are great at is recorded, it's impossible to get rid of it during the mixdown. Be great if he could have more types of pres/comps to choose from during tracking.

I always tell the home recorder guys to get into the box as cleanly and naturally as possible, then add color during mixdown. Only after experimenting with many types of pres(for years) should one be able to decide what colors to use during tracking. It's like dating a ton of girls before you know what you want, and how you want it.

I admit though that I am jaded. Too many turds to polish these days.

[doorknocker]

Originally Posted by fatcat

I always tell the home recorder guys to get into the box as cleanly and naturally as possible, then add color during mixdown. Only after experimenting with many types of pres(for years) should one be able to decide what colors to use during tracking.

I TOTALLY disagree, I try to get as 'finished' a sound as possible while tracking, especially ITB.
Also, there are zillions of things other than the pre that make things 'fat' 'muddy', etc.
Performance, room, deciding what will be added to the song eventually and shaping the sound accordingly.
For example when I record an acoustic guitar as a basic for a song that will feature lots of overdubs then I'll pretty much have the end result in mind. It doesn't make sense recording say a ton of low-end only to get rid of it again in the mix.

The less ITB fixing, summing,etc you'll do, the better you'll be off.

YMMV

Andi

www.doorknocker.ch

[WunderBro Flo]

I recommend you to stick with what you have. The LA610 is a fine piece, spending more money on different preamps and dynamics will give you subtle changes, but it will not make THE difference you are hoping it could bring. There are a thousand things that will make way more difference in your recordings than switching from a LA610 to another preamp. I´d rather get a different sounding mic, like a gefell or an ADK 51s for example, so that you have the choice between the bright TLM103 sound and the rounder/darker mic.

Rock on!
Pat

here is my priority list of the things that make a difference, from most to least:

1 song
2 performance (and the producer´s abililty to coach the talent to better the performance)
3 source sound & room acoustics
4 mic selection & placement
.
.
long gap
.
.
5 preamp
6 ad converter

[MIKEHARRIS]

The Avalon has the EQ...(best feature)...but you'd be better off adding a lunch box and 550b

[fatcat]

(The less ITB fixing, summing,etc you'll do, the better you'll be off.)

My point exactly. Most prosumer pres are adding distortion which they call color, via crappy tube designs or cheap tranny's, transitors, etc.... I get projects all the time from guys who record all their tracks through ART, MBOX, Presonus, Mackie pres and it is impossible to remove the unpleasant "COLOR" those pres add. Now, using one of those pre's here and there for a specific sound is fine, but recording all the tracks with them is terrible. If you are going to record all the tracks with one pre than I think it should be a very clean one. Also, the 610 pre is a good pre, but does soften the transients a bit. Maybe just adding a clean and quick SS pre would be best for him....i.e. Grace 101, maybe the RNP(I haven't tried it).

And I agree with Wildcowboy. The mic and mic position make a larger difference than the many subtle flavors of high end pres.

Doorknocker, I agree that getting mostly what you want during tracking is great, but most project studios don't have several different pres/colors to choose from, nor the experience to know what works well in the mix later. Better safe than sorry.

[Kestral]

On a similar note, I don't see why I need different pres. Gimme a Neve board with at least 16 1073's and I can track on that. Why do I need anything else?

[u b k]

Originally Posted by fatcat

UBIK, he said he was tracking all the instruments through his LA610 so if he replaced that with a colorful/fat sounding pre, don't you think the mix would be a bit too fat/murky.

it needn't be, especially if he got a pre that had a mid push (api) or open top (drs2, mp2nv). color and character don't necessarily equate with dark or murky. you can stack track after track recorded with any of the pre's i mentioned and not have low-mid build-up issues, or at least no more than usual.

I always tell the home recorder guys to get into the box as cleanly and naturally as possible, then add color during mixdown.

well then we *definitely* see things differently in that regard . your logic is sound, but the problem is with reality: it is very hard, well-nigh impossible imo, to get the color of good analog gear with anything in the box. i respect the approach you advise, and i've worked with great engineers who go that way, but i always find myself wanting more personality. nothing makes my eyes glaze over like a polite mix!

Only after experimenting with many types of pres(for years) should one be able to decide what colors to use during tracking. It's like dating a ton of girls before you know what you want, and how you want it.

totally agreed, which is all the more reason to try a colored pre, yes? how's he ever going to learn which colors work for him if he doesn't actually work with them?


gregoire
del ubik

[u b k]

Originally Posted by WildCowboys

here is my priority list of the things that make a difference, from most to least:

1 song
2 performance (and the producer´s abililty to coach the talent to better the performance)
3 source sound & room acoustics
4 mic selection & placement
.
.
long gap
.
.
5 preamp
6 ad converter

i'm with you 100% on that order, with one tweak: ime, the pre has as much impact as the mic on the sound you get. and with the kinds of music the poster is doing, #3 is not nearly as critical as it is with more live-instrument music.

for guys in a room with a daw, one mic, and one pre, the pre is a *gargantuan* factor in the sound of the final mix.


gregoire
del ubik

[skygod]

Originally Posted by Dopamine

I have a small project studio where I produce Pop, R&B, and electronica. My microphone is a TLM-103 and I use Apogee conversion. My only pre/compressor is the LA610. (I also track synths, gtr and bass DI through the UA.) I used to think that this was a decent chain. In fact, I am quite happy with the sound I am getting (but always am looking for an improvement).

But I have been reading numerous posts here that really bash the UA. Unfortunately, I don't have the money to have keep the UA and buy another pre to see which one I prefer. Should I sell the 610 and get a 737? OR should I consider one of the new Neve modules and go back to a RNC.

Just curious if any of the pro guys in here will convince me to keep the UA. I was very surprised to hear the it fared so poorly on these boards after getting good reviews in the major industry zines.

Q: "Should I sell my UA LA-610 and get a Avalon 737?"

Short version-
A1: "Yes"
A2: "No" tutt

Long version-
A1: "Yes" if that's all you need and want to limit yourself to, otherwsie
A2: No if you need more get two liquid channels instead.
These have decent AV737 built in plus you get everything else in there + comps+ AES IO thumbsup

a cappice?

my 2c

~skygod~

[Dopamine]

Not sure why you decided to revive a 2 1/2 year old thread.

I did end up selling my UA for an Avalon and never looked back.

[manthe]

Originally Posted by Dopamine

Not sure why you decided to revive a 2 1/2 year old thread.

I did end up selling my UA for an Avalon and never looked back.

Just goes to show...different strokes! I not only love my LA-610, I'm IN love with it

Funny, though! 2 year old thread

[AllAboutTone]

Keep the 610, what you need to sell is the 103...if you can.

[Energie]

Love the UA, I don;t understand why it would get a bad rap, its not perfect for everything, in particuliar heavy transient material, but for vocals, I love it!!!!!

[Dopamine]

<< Keep the 610, what you need to sell is the 103...if you can. >>

I sold the 103. Made a lot of good records with it though. I have an 87 and 67 now, so I'm all set.

[Factory101]

It's good that the thread has revived from my perspective; it's interesting to hear the outcomes of your purchase over a 2 year period i.e. the Avalon was a good option.

It doesn't make my next purchase decision any easier though.

[dan p]

Wow! A two year thread.Funny how i just was reading 610 is great.Well it is certainly one color.I have a 737,great river,summit mpc 100,and it is nice to have a rainbow of colors that work over time.My new mike is a pearlman tm1.87 here too!Color my world.Happy holidays!!!

Dan P

[miqer]

YEah... buy back the la-610!!!!

[nicolaad30]

I got one of those new Neve modules, the 5012, and it is not a hell of an upgrade from the current Digi 003 preamps. I would stick to the UA or maybe try an ADL600 or SuPRE. Different colors, lots of tubes, 2 channels and get an RNC for limiting and stuff.

[Dirty Halo]

This thread may still be old, but the idea is still relevant (and interesting to hear the outcome with time)

I would (do) say though, keep what you have, add when you can in the opposite sonic direction and keep filling out your sonic pallette.

The 610 is a perfectly GREAT pre. PERFECT for some things. And it sits amongs a pair of Neve 1073, BA 312, Pacificas, etc.

-andrews