KM 84i and 84 -whats the difference?

PRuthenburg · 21st June 2005

I've seen the KM 84i ocassionally.Is this a different version of a real 84 or is it just a different name badge for some reason.

When were these manufactured?Is it a real 84 or closer to the 184s?

Thanks,
Pete Ruthenburg

De chromium cob · 21st June 2005

I'm pretty sure the only difference is that the 84 uses a tuchel connector while the 84i is the US export version and uses a XLR connector. Neither version sounds like a 184...... Km84s are much better in my opinion.

Jim Williams · 21st June 2005

Quote:

Originally Posted by De chromium cob

I'm pretty sure the only difference is that the 84 uses a tuchel connector while the 84i is the US export version and uses a XLR connector. Neither version sounds like a 184...... Km84s are much better in my opinion.

KM84, through hole
KM184, surface mount

TLM103,193, surface mount
U-87, U-89, through hole

AKG 460, through hole
AKG 480, surface mount

AKG414 B, EB, through hole
AKG414 new, surface mount

Trident 80, through hole
Toft 90, surface mount

Does anyone see a pattern here???

Jim Williams
Audio Upgrades

retropete · 21st June 2005

I just bought a KM84i and I was *told* that the i version just indicated that it was a black matte finish. I cannot confirm or deny the accuracy of this statement. As matter of a fact, wouldn't mind if someone more knowledgeable piped in.

Fletcher · 21st June 2005

No.

The "i" means that it has an XLR connector instead of a Tuchel connector.

retropete · 21st June 2005

Thanks -- 'preciate the info!

adamcal · 22nd June 2005

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim Williams

Does anyone see a pattern here???

Jim Williams
Audio Upgrades

No patterm, but I see boobies, what does that mean?

but seriously are you saying Jim that everything surface mounted is crap, or just some things?

Are there any prasied gealslut pieces made surface mounted?

Is surface mounting itself responsible or just crappy designs to start with?

I dont have an opinion, just asking the question.

warhead · 22nd June 2005

Quote:

Originally Posted by adamcal

No patterm, but I see boobies, what does that mean?

Normally an ass man all I notice lately are boobies. Hmm...

Surface mount stuff is generally cheaper to manufacturer, but I think what Jim's getting at is it is a bitch to get off the board thus making it a bitch to mod or fix in many cases.

War

Jim Williams · 22nd June 2005

Here's my beef: Most of the older through hole components are of higher quality than the current crop of surface mount parts. In Neumann, you have the substitution of Wima film caps with monolythic ceramic surface mount caps. If the curious want the hear what happens when you do that, just solder in a ceramic cap into the high shelf section of just about any EQ. Do you like that?

As to resistors, most of these companies are using cheap surface mount parts which are noisy, limited in power, (typically 1/10 watt) and sound small and strident. But not all are. Michal at Mytek uses surface mount metal film resistors, but most companies don't. This includes Neumann.

Surface mount IC's are not a problem, but servicing them can be a bitch. A blown surface mount opamp can easily burn the pcb and cook the traces making the board unrepairable. Not good. A through hole chip mounted in a socked can always be easily repaired. I see that the companies making the cheaper surface mount pcb's consider repairs to now be board replacement. Fixing them at the service dept. is no longer an option due to labor costs. It's simply cheaper for them to shove in another machine made surface mount pcb than it is for the techs to repair it. Think about the lead filled pcb's filling the landfills next time you put out your recycle trash bin.

As to double sided pcb's, in audio there is little advantage for that unless you incorporate digital circuits with them. Power and ground planes can be helpfull in reducing noise from the audio circuits which share digital processing. An example is the Lynx 2 card. It has ground and power planes to reduce radiated digital interference and does a pretty good job of filtering the noise out. It also unfortunatly filters out some of the audio details, but that's another story.

Jim Williams
Audio Upgrades

21st June 2005	#1
PRuthenburg Gear maniac Joined: Oct 2003 Location: St. Louis,Mo. Posts: 215 Thread Starter	KM 84i and 84 -whats the difference? I've seen the KM 84i ocassionally.Is this a different version of a real 84 or is it just a different name badge for some reason. When were these manufactured?Is it a real 84 or closer to the 184s? Thanks, Pete Ruthenburg

21st June 2005	#2
De chromium cob Lives for gear Joined: Feb 2003 Location: Western North Carolina Posts: 3,659	I'm pretty sure the only difference is that the 84 uses a tuchel connector while the 84i is the US export version and uses a XLR connector. Neither version sounds like a 184...... Km84s are much better in my opinion. __________________ "I know that most men, including those at ease with problems of the greatest complexity, can seldom accept even the simplest and most obvious truth if it be such as would oblige them to admit the falsity of conclusions which they have delighted in explaining to colleagues, which they have proudly taught to others, and which they have woven, thread by thread, into the fabric of their lives." Tolstoy

21st June 2005	#5
Fletcher member no 666 Joined: Jun 2002 Location: Durham, NC Posts: 10,110	No. The "i" means that it has an XLR connector instead of a Tuchel connector. __________________ CN Fletcher Professional Affiliations: R/E/P Professional Recording Engineer and Producer forums - serious hobbyists welcome SoundPure.com mwagener wrote on Sat, 11 September 2004 14:33 We are selling emotions, there are no emotions in a grid Roscoe Ambel once said: Pro-Tools is to audio what fluorescent is to light

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21st June 2005	#4
retropete Gear addict Joined: Mar 2005 Location: Hoboken, NJ Posts: 419	I just bought a KM84i and I was told that the i version just indicated that it was a black matte finish. I cannot confirm or deny the accuracy of this statement. As matter of a fact, wouldn't mind if someone more knowledgeable piped in.

22nd June 2005	#9
Jim Williams Voiding warranties Joined: Feb 2004 Location: beautiful Carlsbad, CA Posts: 10,081	Here's my beef: Most of the older through hole components are of higher quality than the current crop of surface mount parts. In Neumann, you have the substitution of Wima film caps with monolythic ceramic surface mount caps. If the curious want the hear what happens when you do that, just solder in a ceramic cap into the high shelf section of just about any EQ. Do you like that? As to resistors, most of these companies are using cheap surface mount parts which are noisy, limited in power, (typically 1/10 watt) and sound small and strident. But not all are. Michal at Mytek uses surface mount metal film resistors, but most companies don't. This includes Neumann. Surface mount IC's are not a problem, but servicing them can be a bitch. A blown surface mount opamp can easily burn the pcb and cook the traces making the board unrepairable. Not good. A through hole chip mounted in a socked can always be easily repaired. I see that the companies making the cheaper surface mount pcb's consider repairs to now be board replacement. Fixing them at the service dept. is no longer an option due to labor costs. It's simply cheaper for them to shove in another machine made surface mount pcb than it is for the techs to repair it. Think about the lead filled pcb's filling the landfills next time you put out your recycle trash bin. As to double sided pcb's, in audio there is little advantage for that unless you incorporate digital circuits with them. Power and ground planes can be helpfull in reducing noise from the audio circuits which share digital processing. An example is the Lynx 2 card. It has ground and power planes to reduce radiated digital interference and does a pretty good job of filtering the noise out. It also unfortunatly filters out some of the audio details, but that's another story. Jim Williams Audio Upgrades