Chris Lord Alge Drum Reverb?

[Analog]

Say what you want about CLA but I'm listening to the new Papa Roach disc (I like it a lot, I think its their best) and I noticed two things:

1. The drums all have this splatty nice attack that really cuts through the mix without being overbearing.

2. He likes a lot of roomy sounding reverb on his drums and they always have a nice depth in the mix even when things are heavy and clustered with guitars..

Anyone know anything about his drum mixing? Anyone ever see which patches of reverbs he uses for his drums, I assume they are Lexicon patches but I could be wrong. Thanks.

[audioez]

I look up to both CLA and TLA.... not too sure about the pappa roach stuff, but with the replacements "don't tell a soul" 1989...mixed by CLA

the way you describe the reverbs reminded me of that particular replacements album. IMO there's a live feel to thier mixes, as if you were at the concert. Having a background in live sound may have influenced their choice of verb, or maybe not...I seem to get good results with a rev 5 or any SPX type of box... but that's me said the flea.

[mixalot]

i thought he switched to drums from hell for all his drum sounds
except the kik of course..

ray

Originally Posted by audioez

I look up to both CLA and TLA.... not too sure about the pappa roach stuff, but with the replacements "don't tell a soul" 1989...mixed by CLA

the way you describe the reverbs reminded me of that particular replacements album. IMO there's a live feel to thier mixes, as if you were at the concert. Having a background in live sound may have influenced their choice of verb, or maybe not...I seem to get good results with a rev 5 or any SPX type of box... but that's me said the flea.

[lwr]

are you being sarcastic or does he actually use that library?

[decibel]

Originally Posted by Analog

Say what you want about CLA but I'm listening to the new Papa Roach disc (I like it a lot, I think its their best) and I noticed two things:

1. The drums all have this splatty nice attack that really cuts through the mix without being overbearing.

2. He likes a lot of roomy sounding reverb on his drums and they always have a nice depth in the mix even when things are heavy and clustered with guitars..

Anyone know anything about his drum mixing? Anyone ever see which patches of reverbs he uses for his drums, I assume they are Lexicon patches but I could be wrong. Thanks.

CLA mixed some songs for me a few months ago.....and he used distressors on the kick and snare. To me, that is where the splatty attack is coming from. You should try it for yourself....you will notice the similar quality right away. He did replace the kick drums on every song with his own sample, but left the snares alone(I had samples with those already).

As far as reverb, I'm not sure what he was using. With all of his compression, some of the room sound seems to be brought out of the individual mics. Could be a PCM 70 or Yamaha ......there are definitley no 960L's or TC 6000's hanging around.

Don't forget the "original" Red3 and some pultecs on the mix buss........

Andy

[Analog]

Interesting Andy. What kind of settings on the Distressor.. the box has a lot of sounds in it! Like 4:1, medium attack fast release, with about 5 db gain reduction sound about right? My partner has two distressors. Also, does he "distress" the kick sample?

And last, how much does he push that Red on the mix buss, do you recall what the attack was...? Cool stuff!! thanks!!

[cgarges]

I know that at one point, he and his brother were both sort of partial to the Sony verbs for drums and that's what most of his mixes sound like to me. I have no idea if he's still on that kick or not.

Chris Garges
Charlotte, NC

[decibel]

Originally Posted by Analog

Interesting Andy. What kind of settings on the Distressor.. the box has a lot of sounds in it! Like 4:1, medium attack fast release, with about 5 db gain reduction sound about right? My partner has two distressors. Also, does he "distress" the kick sample?

And last, how much does he push that Red on the mix buss, do you recall what the attack was...? Cool stuff!! thanks!!

I hope I don't get struck by lightning or something........but the kick was 2:1 with attack very open at 8 or 9 with a pretty fast release and about as much GR as you said. The snare was similar settings with maybe 3:1 ratio (fuzzy memory). No DIST buttons in, and almost positive the HP DET was in on both(I have had the best results with that).

Very, Very light on the GR for the Red 3. maybe just 1 or 2 db, with a 1.5:1 ratio and auto release (don't remember what the attack was, but probably wide open). No quad comp on the console.....


OK, now I'm feeling real bad for "kissing and telling", but hopefully this serves some educational purpose.

[Local 47]

Very interesting. any other 'setup modes' you might have picked up: subgroups? parallel compression?
And one more thing I'd like to know: how hot were the mixes when you got them? almost as slamming as the final masters? Or more like a mix tht has a few dB of headroom left?

[rickrock305]

I work with TLA, and i know him and his brother mix with pretty much the same techniques. I could go on and on about distressor settings and how he gets his sounds, i could even list everry piece of gear he uses on stuff, but the bottom line is, you aren't them. Even if you were in the same exact room, with the same song, with all the same gear, you still wouldn't come out with their drum sounds. Its really more technique than a certain piece of gear. A lot of that sound comes from the room mics and such.

Like i said, i could list everything out for you, but I work with him and i doubt he would appreciate me laying his shit out like that. Sorry.

[Analog]

No I'm not them but the Distressor was the missing link I was looking for, completly gave me the snap I was hearing. Thats all I was wondering about. Decibel thanks a million, I'm psyched to start using the Distressors now. There is nothing more I hate then "mix secrets" in this industry. Not that TLA or CLA are worrying about not getting work... but the fact that some people "hide" what they do and don't share it with others makes no sense... When people like what I do, I love sharing with them what I did so they can do it too... Thats fun to me.

[krid]

Well, ask TLA to be a gearslutz guest moderator so that he can share all his secrets




Ok we can dream

[rickrock305]

Originally Posted by Analog

No I'm not them but the Distressor was the missing link I was looking for, completly gave me the snap I was hearing. Thats all I was wondering about. Decibel thanks a million, I'm psyched to start using the Distressors now. There is nothing more I hate then "mix secrets" in this industry. Not that TLA or CLA are worrying about not getting work... but the fact that some people "hide" what they do and don't share it with others makes no sense... When people like what I do, I love sharing with them what I did so they can do it too... Thats fun to me.

absolutely right, i'm all about sharing my OWN tips and tricks, but i can't be putting out other people's stuff that took them years to learn and develop.

[robmix]

When I worked for Chris years ago he used one side of the 480L and that big, old expensive Sony box for reverbs, that's it. Don't remember the settings. H3000, SDE3000's and SPX90II are setup with various delays and harmonizers. Pretty standard stuff really - it's all in the ears.

[rickrock305]

Originally Posted by robmix

Pretty standard stuff really - it's all in the ears.

EXACTLY!!!

[audioez]

well I don't work, or know these guys, all though it would be great to work with them one day They happen to be listed on a lot of albums that I own, blah, blah, blah...

Just with music, you can learn by listening and playing along...this whole idea about "Oh yeah, the cal. 5 regulator" that's the ticket!!! jon lovitz SNL. They're many paths to to a slammin' mix.

I'd say forget everything(including my post) that's said here and mix with clean ears and a clean mind...

A wise engineer/producer once walked into a control room, took a look at the corperate credenza as most engineers would and said...

"there's enough outboard gear in here to make a crappy sounding record"
stike

[decibel]

Originally Posted by Local 47

Very interesting. any other 'setup modes' you might have picked up: subgroups? parallel compression?
And one more thing I'd like to know: how hot were the mixes when you got them? almost as slamming as the final masters? Or more like a mix tht has a few dB of headroom left?

The mixes were not "loud", but they have that quality where everything fits into a tight little package. Even though the bass is huge, there is a........the only word I can think of is "compressed" sound. They sound that way, even on little speakers. You can tell that it sounds huge and rockin' no matter what speakers you are listening on.

I think that mastering engineers can make his mixes loud because of that quality.

So, to answer your question...the mixes were printed at very conservative levels. No slamming to 1/2" or any vodoo.

[decibel]

Originally Posted by audioez

well I don't work, or know these guys, all though it would be great to work with them one day They happen to be listed on a lot of albums that I own, blah, blah, blah...

Just with music, you can learn by listening and playing along...this whole idea about "Oh yeah, the cal. 5 regulator" that's the ticket!!! jon lovitz SNL. They're many paths to to a slammin' mix.

I'd say forget everything(including my post) that's said here and mix with clean ears and a clean mind...

A wise engineer/producer once walked into a control room, took a look at the corperate credenza as most engineers would and said...

"there's enough outboard gear in here to make a crappy sounding record"
stike

I like how this whole forum is about GEAR. Hell, it's even in the name. But once you mention a piece of gear that can give you a specific sound, then it turns into "just use your ears" and "it's not the equipment". You guys have to be kidding.....

If this forum isn't about sharing ideas on how to use "gear" to get certain kinds of sounds, then please tell me what you are all doing here.

[cgarges]

Originally Posted by Labs

That would rawk.... I wanna know where the "lord" thing comes from

Their mother is Vivian Lord.

Chris Garges
Charlotte, NC

[studjo]

Labs you know: those Americans

[The Alamo]

Originally Posted by decibel

I like how this whole forum is about GEAR. Hell, it's even in the name. But once you mention a piece of gear that can give you a specific sound, then it turns into "just use your ears" and "it's not the equipment". You guys have to be kidding.....

If this forum isn't about sharing ideas on how to use "gear" to get certain kinds of sounds, then please tell me what you are all doing here.

Point taken...That's what I was thinking too...But not anymore...
Jules, may I suggest you'd register a new domain name:
www.earslutz.com

(Remember) The Alamo

[studjo]

zboy - you really believe everything what you read?

I think the Alge Bros have a good laugh everytime they hear that story.


Jo

[robmix]

Originally Posted by zboy2854

When did I ever say I read it? The CLA stuff was told to me by a friend who has worked several times with him, and I recently got to watch TLA in action during a mixing seminar in Miami. Very informative, I must say.

In addition, the fact that you can spot a TLA or CLA mix pretty easily speaks volumes about the fact that they use similar processing and/or settings from one mix to the next.

Ahh, the infamous quote. What Chris has found is that certain vintage pieces sound their best within a given set of parameters.When he finds something he likes it stays and he gets another piece of gear. Easier to keep those settings and change the input level at the console. I've seen a ton of big engineers do the same. Swedien only changes the threshold on his Neve 2254's, everything else stays the same. As one of CLA's former assistants I can tell you the settings do change as any recall will show.

[zboy2854]

Originally Posted by robmix

Ahh, the infamous quote. What Chris has found is that certain vintage pieces sound their best within a given set of parameters.When he finds something he likes it stays and he gets another piece of gear. Easier to keep those settings and change the input level at the console. I've seen a ton of big engineers do the same. Swedien only changes the threshold on his Neve 2254's, everything else stays the same.

Exactly. So in many cases, the ratio, attack and release times, etc are static from one mix to another, as there are certain settings that work well as all purpose settings for a kick drum, snare, fingered bass, etc.

As one of CLA's former assistants I can tell you the settings do change as any recall will show.

No doubt, but I'll bet dollars to doughnuts that he uses the same pieces of gear consistently for the same types of instruments, and that the tweaks more often than not are minor ones as opposed to major ones, unless going for a specifically "different" sound. I think that's the point to all of this, that there are basic settings and gear choices that can consistently put you in the ballpark every time for a certain sound, hence the reason TLA and CLA mixes are very identifiable.

[paultools]

In a business where the real secret is there is no real secret, there are techniques which may be unique to each engineer. I do not feel it would be proper for somone's assistant to divulge an engineer's techniques. Certainly there needs to be a "engineer-second privilege".

[blackcatdigi]

Originally Posted by Labs

A woman can't be a lord...Your saying their mother was a lord and their father was an Alge ?

Lady Vivian Lord?

Chris and Tom Lady Alge? Just doesn't have the same ring, now does it?..

[zboy2854]

Originally Posted by paultools

In a business where the real secret is there is no real secret, there are techniques which may be unique to each engineer. I do not feel it would be proper for somone's assistant to divulge an engineer's techniques. Certainly there needs to be a "engineer-second privilege".

This really almost becomes a moot point these days, as there are plenty of producers and engineers who have routinely sat in with mixers on projects where they picked up their techniques, which they then use themselves, which other engineers and producers then pick up from them, and so on...

[zboy2854]

Getting back to sharing some info about these guys, during the recent mixing seminar with TLA, one thing that stood out to me was how finished his mix was before it ever went to mastering. In fact, once he had everything in, the song (it was Korn's cover of the song "Word Up") sounded exactly like it did on the radio. I'd wager there was no EQ or compression necessary in mastering. That song was done.

[krid]

Could you tell us what TLA explained / showed during this seminar ?

I love the mix of "Word Up" : what did he do during this mix (replace the drums ... ?) and what did you learn ?


Thanks

[robmix]

Originally Posted by paultools

In a business where the real secret is there is no real secret, there are techniques which may be unique to each engineer. I do not feel it would be proper for somone's assistant to divulge an engineer's techniques. Certainly there needs to be a "engineer-second privilege".

I tend to agree, it's up to the engineer to "give" as much as he/she wants. But I think it's OK to talk about the broad strokes. My use of 1176 on vocals is going to be wildly different than Chris or Tom's regardless of settings. Talk to someone like Swedien and he happily tell you all his "secrets" because he knows there's no way you're going to emulate his ears.