Hybrid Setups - Tell us how you do it

[Red Dog]

For the guys (and gals) who like to go with the hybrid workflow route in their studios, there's no doubt why the integration of an analogue desk with a DAW is the absolute best way to go to make the most of tracking, monitoring, and mixing.

There's a handful of ways for getting audio in and out of your mixer when you're tracking and mixing. I thought it might be interesting to see how some of you might route your audio within a hybrid setup. Consider this a poll if you like. I would love to see how the setup of our rigs stack up.

Tell us your tracking signal flow, for example:
Mic lines > channel mic input, direct output, DAW input...

Or your mixing/summing signal flow, for example:
DAW outputs > channel line input... etc.

I'm particularly interested to see how you guys prefer to bring your audio back to your console when you're tracking for monitoring. Do you like to monitor your tracks before or after it gets to your DAW? And when you return your tracks to the console from your DAW, do you use the channel line input, or do you prefer to come back to the monitor input?

If you have any specific reasons for your routing, such as sonic benefits, routing flexibility, or whatever - let us know.

[princeplanet]

here's a couple of threads I started a while back. I've since perfected the method to include post console automation from DAW as well as parallel HW processing and automated sends to HW FX. I mix fully analog but have ALL the automation recall advantages of ITB. I have 2 rooms running this method and it's a huge success. Mixing actually takes less time and there's no need to print instrumentals, TV's, vox up/down. A Cappellas etc.... I just call up these in an instant when needed.



http://www.gearslutz.com/board/high-...ue-recall.html
ANALOGUE CONSOLE w/ DAW SUMMING vs DAW CONSOLE w/ ANALOGUE SUMMING

[FeatheredSerpent]

I don't think I fit the model exactly but it's definitely hybrid:
ps if anyone sees a much better way of doing what I'm doing then let me know as I haven't had this setup for long!

First off I'm using a mix of VSIs, hardware synth, acoustic bass guitar via DI, UAD+native plugs as well as an outboard Lexi reverb box and a digital desk that also has onboard Lexi and DBX effects/processing respectively.
An rme 9652 provides the adat in/out from desk to daw and vice-versa, as well as a dedicated midi port pair for the desk's dynamic automation and one pair for the synth.

So in practise there's 8 channels of analogue outs from my HW synth coming into the desk, a single mono channel from the preamp/DI coming in, and 2 analogue channels coming back from the reverb box.

The desk has an auxiliary adat port which can be configured to be fed from either the 8 groups or receive identical signals as are being sent to the mix outs and the 6 auxes, meaning you can mix and match - sending to both the analogue aux outs and straight to an FX channel ITB (cubase) at the same time.

I can have 16 direct outs but that would mean using that adat aux for the groups so I choose to use 8 direct outs, 8 groups and the mix+aux option, these 24 outs are all via adat, going into an rme 9652.
The synth parts can be quickly and easily recorded using the direct outs as can the acoustic bass.

On the other side, any softsynths/samplers etc are coming out the rme straight into the 16 adat tape returns, then there's another 8 channels coming out as analogue courtesy of the ADA8000's DA.

Now it sounds nice and neat (to me anyway) but I still run out of channels, so I'm often leaving the hw synth running live so I don't have to use up tape return channels on it, which is a compromise.
There's 5 stereo analogue ins, 2 of which are used for the outboard reverb returns, and I use the other 4 (which are submixable in the analogue domain) for drums, which is handy because I can compress and eq the individual drum tracks, send them out to 4 stereo pairs, submix them in analogue and then put the desk's compressor over that whole drum group.

I don't have any outboard compressors so instead of inserting those on the desk channels (which all have analogue insert points), I just do it on the daw tracks before they come out to the desk, which is pretty much exactly the same thing anyway, and with UAD, a lot cheaper

It all works out very well and with no latency issues to speak of, and I make sure that there are never more conversion stages than necessary, so for example if something originally came into the desk via analogue, it doesn't come out via the ada8000.

It would be nice if the rme had 4 adat ports then I could have another 8 channel DA converter meaning 42 inputs at mixdown, but that would mean sending the synth into the ADA8000 rather than the desk, but I was always using it for that before I got the desk so no big deal.

Best things are having more processing without cpu strain thanks to the desk's onboard processing, but still being able to bypass it and go straight into itb effects if I want, having a useable eq on the desk with hands on control, plus having a 56 bit mix engine which does appear to make a difference.
And of course, long throw faders and plenty of knobs that just makes everything much more fun

Shit, I wrote too much again

[recall]

8 channels via D/A into a phat and cheap Studiomaster desk > pad the output of desk into a Sebatron VMP2000 > RME ADI2 SPDIF into PT> monitor via an aux in Pro Tools so I can hear eaxctly whats going on in the A/D-D/A conversion.

Its a little cumbersome but it is a cheap way i've found to add tone to ITB mixes.

Its basically 8 channels (2 stereo stems and 4 mono, kick,snare,bass,vox channels) into a valve processor monitored back through pro tools.

Fine for mixing, but not flexible enough for tracking with.

[vo1k1]

Originally Posted by recall

...Fine for mixing, but not flexible enough for tracking with.

I'm experimenting with something vaguely similar - also going for some analog tone while mixing.

After reading some of the brauer writing - it made me think about having different colors/treatment for each submix - in my hybrid setup.

5 Stereo Stems otb via DA > Different analog compressors and other color on each stem > line mixer (just level and pan) > Fatso > AD > ITB

[Pred80r]

Am I simplifying things too much by just having my Pro-tools output going back to the Tape input on my console, mixing like it is my tape machine and then recording a 2 track mix back into pro-tools?

I feel like everyone else has such complicated set up that there must be a reason for it...

[vo1k1]

Originally Posted by Pred80r

Am I simplifying things too much by just having my Pro-tools output going back to the Tape input on my console, mixing like it is my tape machine and then recording a 2 track mix back into pro-tools?

I feel like everyone else has such complicated set up that there must be a reason for it...

Actually, I started down this path by just running the mix buss out-of-the-box - into an analog compressor - and then right back-into-the-box.

That kinda got addictive - and then the next thing I knew - I was doing it for stems. I've found it to be a $lippery $lope.

[jnobucks]

Wrapping my head around the hybrid setup I now have in the studio was daunting in the beginning, but so rewarding after getting the results I was looking for plus creating a workflow that made sense to me.

Starting from the live room, my 16 channel snake goes through the patch bay that is either normalled to the mic inputs on the TOFT ATB16 or break off to send through an outboard pre and then sent into one of the TOFT's line inputs. The direct outs of all 16 channels of the TOFT are normalled through the patchbay to the Lynx Aurora16. From there, the Lynx can send 16 channels i/o down the AES lines to the AES16 card if we are using Logic. We also run Protools through a 002, so the first 8 channels of the Lynx do the conversion, then send the digital audio down the two adat lines to run 8 channels through ProTools.
We initially had the tracks coming back through the Lynx and had them normalled to the monitor inputs of the 16 channels, but realized that we never had the need to use all 16 channels of the TOFT to record AND monitor at the same time (very small live room). So, to make things less chaotic, we have them normalled to the line inputs of the channels. So, we will record down up to 12 channels of the console and usually reserve channels 13-16 to monitor post-record. That way, during initial tracking we can give the artists a pre-record monitor through the aux's, or we can have a 2 bus return down channels 15-16 and feed that to the cans for overdubs.
Then, for mixing, we set all the inputs on the toft to line input and assign the various tracks down to anywhere from 2-8 of the 8 available busses and send out of the busses direct out to the DAW.
So we utilize the console three different ways depending if we are doing initial tracking, overdubs, or mixdown. The result is consistency, flexibility and speed.
Once I can afford the protools HD to allow all 16 channels of the lynx plus being able to utilize TDM plugins within Logic, then I will have the perfect spot. Until then, this'll do. I highly recommend the integration of a console or mixer.

[Red Dog]

Thanks for the input guys.

I think the setup with the Toft ATB 16 and the Aurora/002 setup is great for tracking in a smaller space and mixing OTB. Good tracking workflow and huge sonic benefits for the final mixes.

Anyone with a larger setup want to show and tell?

[subspace]

Tracking:
We use a stand-alone HDR for tracking larger sessions with a split console for monitoring;

20 mic pre/eqs > HDR inputs
HDR outputs > monitor returns

We transfer to PT after basics and monitor an ITB mix for overdubs.

Mixing:
Last night's mixing session was pretty typical, so I'll give you the ins and outs. We open the PT session, assign all the tracks to Bus 1-2, create an Aux track with Bus 1-2 as it's input and S/PDIF 1-2 as it's output;

DAW mix > S/PDIF 1-2 > DAC > ch 13 + 14

Then we use the first send on each track to feed the DAC > desk channel we want it coming up on. Last night it broke down like this;

Kick in
Kick out
Kick sample > ch 1
Snare top
Snare bottom
Snare sample > ch 2
Tom
Floor
L oh
R oh
Ride
L room
R room > ch 3 + 4
Shaker
Tambourine
Cowbell > ch 5 + 6
Bass di
Bass cab > ch 7
Ld vcl > ch 8
L gtr
R gtr
Third gtr > ch 9 + 10
Vcl comps > ch 11 + 12

We get balances on the ITB faders while monitoring the stems at unity. So we have four mono stems (kick, snare, bass, ld vcl) and four stereo stems (drums, percussion, gtrs, vcls) as well as the stereo ITB mix available on the desk. Channels 15 + 16 are fed by a passive mixer summing four effects units on the desk's aux sends.
We print the stereo desk output back into PT, as well as the desk's direct outs to the stand-alone HDR to capture the analog processing/ mix moves.

[gregovertone]

Originally Posted by jnobucks

Wrapping my head around the hybrid setup I now have in the studio was daunting in the beginning, but so rewarding after getting the results I was looking for plus creating a workflow that made sense to me.

Starting from the live room, my 16 channel snake goes through the patch bay that is either normalled to the mic inputs on the TOFT ATB16 or break off to send through an outboard pre and then sent into one of the TOFT's line inputs. The direct outs of all 16 channels of the TOFT are normalled through the patchbay to the Lynx Aurora16. From there, the Lynx can send 16 channels i/o down the AES lines to the AES16 card if we are using Logic. We also run Protools through a 002, so the first 8 channels of the Lynx do the conversion, then send the digital audio down the two adat lines to run 8 channels through ProTools.
We initially had the tracks coming back through the Lynx and had them normalled to the monitor inputs of the 16 channels, but realized that we never had the need to use all 16 channels of the TOFT to record AND monitor at the same time (very small live room). So, to make things less chaotic, we have them normalled to the line inputs of the channels. So, we will record down up to 12 channels of the console and usually reserve channels 13-16 to monitor post-record. That way, during initial tracking we can give the artists a pre-record monitor through the aux's, or we can have a 2 bus return down channels 15-16 and feed that to the cans for overdubs.
Then, for mixing, we set all the inputs on the toft to line input and assign the various tracks down to anywhere from 2-8 of the 8 available busses and send out of the busses direct out to the DAW.
So we utilize the console three different ways depending if we are doing initial tracking, overdubs, or mixdown. The result is consistency, flexibility and speed.
Once I can afford the protools HD to allow all 16 channels of the lynx plus being able to utilize TDM plugins within Logic, then I will have the perfect spot. Until then, this'll do. I highly recommend the integration of a console or mixer.

how does the patchbay deal with phantom power mics?

does it just send the 48 right through?