Songs for referencing during mixdowns and mastering

[Jake Holland]

I would like to know what well known songs you use as a reference when mixing and mastering.

I would like to start a collection of great reference mixes in this thread for all of us to use for the different musical styles.

For example, audiophiles deemed that the song "Luka" by Suzanne Vega was near perfection for an Adult Contemporary mix in it's tonal and dynamic balance so I always listen to it before I mix down or master anything on my own that is in the AC genre. I listen to how it sounds in my room here and I compare my mixing and mastering to it so I can judge whether or not I have enough or too little bass, treble and middle.

Love to know what your single most reliable reference song is...

[picksail]

Red Rain-Peter Gabriel

[Jake Holland]

Some popular ones seem to be

Jeff Buckley - Grace
Peter Gabriel - Anything
Radiohead - OK Computer
U2 - Joshua Tree
Bjork - Post
Beck - Mutations
Tom Petty - Mary Jane's Last Dance
Neil Young - Harvest
Gordon Lightfoot - anything
Nick Drake - Pink Moon
Simon & Garfunkel - The Boxer
Miles Davis - Kind of Blue
John Coltrane - Love Supreme

[Jake Holland]

This could be the most important and most useful thread on the forum right now but it feels like people are more obsessed with collecting transitional technology than learning anything from the masters of the art of making music recordings.

[Heartfelt]

I love Red Rain and know it well but am just curious why it is a reference track?

Isn't it a bit bass shy due to being recorded a while back? (Just trying to learn)

[Kronos147]

Green Earrings

[gurubuzz]

For Electro - pop I'd use

Madonna - Ray of light...

I think everything went too loud after this...

[redddog]

Steely Dan - Aja

That one seems to get a lot of referencing.

I've been using Ryan Adams "Gold" lately for a lot.

[Heartfelt]

again... just trying to learn.


Why do most use older recordings for reference? Aren't they recorded with a different perspective? The biggest challenge I see is the bottom end. The bottom in the 80's or earlier doesn't touch what is being done now, in terms of intensity and focus?

What am I missing?

thanks!

[Elvis]

Punk - Nofx - Punk in Drublic

Indie Rock - Radiohead - OK Computer

Modern Rock - Incubus - Morning View

Hip Hop - Outkast - Aquemini

Electro - Depeche Mode - Playing the Angel

House - Daft Punk - Discovery

[RCM - Ronan]

Originally Posted by Heartfelt

I love Red Rain and know it well but am just curious why it is a reference track?

Isn't it a bit bass shy due to being recorded a while back? (Just trying to learn)

From what I have heard, every individual track was high passed on that record, I think as high as 70-75 Hz

[Jake Holland]

70-75Hz is quite a lot to be chopping out of Red Rain RCM.

I think Peter better have Botrill and Killen re-mix SO. You know, for us to have a better mix reference track.


I agree that some older mixes have more dynamic range thumbsup


Ryan Adam's GOLD is a great sounding record with lots of balance.



Ethan Johns anything is going to be a great reference track!stike

[Heartfelt]

I may not be en vogue but I am diggin Dann Huffs mixes about now.

[Musiclab]

I try to find something that's in the same style, For acoustic with electric Richard Page's Shelter Me is fairly astounding

[DJamesGoody]

Originally Posted by Heartfelt

again... just trying to learn.


Why do most use older recordings for reference? Aren't they recorded with a different perspective? The biggest challenge I see is the bottom end. The bottom in the 80's or earlier doesn't touch what is being done now, in terms of intensity and focus?

What am I missing?

thanks!

I agree about the perspective thing. Making records is not immune from a thing called nostalgia, some that may or may not be falsely placed. Grass is always greener right? But while most new records do certainly have a greater bass intensity, it's not always a good or appropriate thing. Just as, not all old records sound good. I love the low end on Soul Coughing records just as much as I love the low end of a bunch of the Booker T or Isaac Hayes tracks. Totally different, both valid.

There is one overlooked major truth here, in my book........ and this affects everything else. One man's reference is quite possibly another man's distaste. There are obviously some records that most agree on, but beyond that, it's all relative.

For instance, I have an engineer friend who thinks that the Tool record Lateralus sounds amazing. I think it sounds kinda small and lean. It's his bag, and completely not my bag. But, we both agree that Sea Change is a brilliant sounding record.

Our perception of a good sounding record is so deeply affected by so many variables other than just sonics. Even though we're engineers, we're also human, therefore we make associations - some that may or may not be related at all to "sound" per se.

I'm just sayin.

[Mr.HOLMES]

For me it is nearly everything what is made for:

STING
ERIC CLAPTON
MILES DAVIS
JAMES TAYLOR
PRINCE

And then I hear there is still a long route to go.

[Heartfelt]

Originally Posted by DJGoody

I agree about the perspective thing. Making records is not immune from a thing called nostalgia, some that may or may not be falsely placed. Grass is always greener right? But while most new records do certainly have a greater bass intensity, it's not always a good or appropriate thing. Just as, not all old records sound good. I love the low end on Soul Coughing records just as much as I love the low end of a bunch of the Booker T or Isaac Hayes tracks. Totally different, both valid.

There is one overlooked major truth here, in my book........ and this affects everything else. One man's reference is quite possibly another man's distaste. There are obviously some records that most agree on, but beyond that, it's all relative.

For instance, I have an engineer friend who thinks that the Tool record Lateralus sounds amazing. I think it sounds kinda small and lean. It's his bag, and completely not my bag. But, we both agree that Sea Change is a brilliant sounding record.

Our perception of a good sounding record is so deeply affected by so many variables other than just sonics. Even though we're engineers, we're also human, therefore we make associations - some that may or may not be related at all to "sound" per se.

I'm just sayin.

Gotcha, thanks.

[DanDan]

I collect tracks over a long period of time. If I notice something sounding great,( e.g. recently I have been noticing a Kings of Leon track) I make a note to self to get it. I have a ProTools folder with these collected tracks. I also make CD's for use when I am mixing concerts.
For reference purposes I guess the most important factors are consistency and the spectrum of sounds in the track. I use my own collection all the time, everywhere I go. Because of this consistency I have averaged the sounds and know how I expect each track to sound. I can use this to judge speakers, rooms etc. and adjust them to sound 'correct'
Even though they may not be up to the same standard as some of the legendary tracks, I do include quite a few of own mixes because I know them so well and have heard them repeatedly in many situations.
Mary Black's No Frontiers album was used extensively by our Hi Fi brothers in the Nineties. ( One of mine, perhaps I'm a legend also :-) )
Particular tracks can excel at one or more specific aspects, say Great Bass sound , Stereo Imaging, Vocal level, Reverbs and so on.

Happy Hunting,

Dan FitzGerald
Sound Sound - Homepage

[Han]

Anything done by Bruce Swedien sounds great, the low end of Earthsong is awesome for example.

Anything from the 'So' album by Peter Gabriel, the early version that doesn't suffer from too much compression, or the vinyl version.

[Sigma]

Originally Posted by DJGoody

I agree about the perspective thing. Making records is not immune from a thing called nostalgia, some that may or may not be falsely placed. Grass is always greener right? But while most new records do certainly have a greater bass intensity, it's not always a good or appropriate thing. Just as, not all old records sound good. I love the low end on Soul Coughing records just as much as I love the low end of a bunch of the Booker T or Isaac Hayes tracks. Totally different, both valid.

There is one overlooked major truth here, in my book........ and this affects everything else. One man's reference is quite possibly another man's distaste. There are obviously some records that most agree on, but beyond that, it's all relative.

For instance, I have an engineer friend who thinks that the Tool record Lateralus sounds amazing. I think it sounds kinda small and lean. It's his bag, and completely not my bag. But, we both agree that Sea Change is a brilliant sounding record.

Our perception of a good sounding record is so deeply affected by so many variables other than just sonics. Even though we're engineers, we're also human, therefore we make associations - some that may or may not be related at all to "sound" per se.

I'm just sayin.

1000% true

[henge]

PG's So for mids and highs and balance.
Toy Matinee sounds great.
Joshua judges Ruth ...beautiful.
Clearmountain..Crowded house,Shawn Colvin.
Crash.

[hibakusha]

Depends on the material being mixed of course, but I LOVE the sound of Grace Jones "Nightclubbing". Maybe I'm just showing my age. No one seems to give a shit about clarity in the top end anymore.

[Jake Holland]

Crowded House! Now that was a great Record!

The INXS Album with the song "Never tear us apart" was a good record for reference too.

[GordZilla]

Originally Posted by redddog

Steely Dan - Aja

That one seems to get a lot of referencing.

I've been using Ryan Adams "Gold" lately for a lot.

Aja is at the top of my list also

Lots of Dave Mathews stuff is also good for reference... and for great older school sounds and production, I always thought most of the Supertramp stuff was very well mixed.

Yeah... I'm an old guy

[CorkyTart]

I try to use CDS that werent destroyed in the attempt to win the loudness wars and those CDS are pretty old....

[mbrebes]

My approach to reference music, for both mixing and mastering, is to have the client bring in CDs that are representative of their music style and what they want as an end product. That becomes my reference. After all, isn't our job to give our clients what they want?

[Jules]

For alt rock

Foo Fighters - "Monkey Wrench"

[Waltz Mastering]

A majority of the records mixed by Andy Wallace are a good reference for the heavier sounding stuff.

TW

[Milliken]

Gotta put up another vote for Steely Dan....similar to my style.....jazz fusion, rock. I always play "Hey Nineteen" which comes at you hard with a full mix after a couple seconds. Their whole catalogue is amazing. Some of the best guitar tones of all time. Mostly due to the talent....not the mix though.

I like the votes for Dave Mathews, Supertramp, INXS, and Madonna.

Don't forget Michael Jackson...Just to mix to....not baby-sit your kid.

[Milliken]

I wound't mix anything after listening to "luka" because I don't want my music to sound like that......

Every project needs different reference material.

How do you want your mix to sound?