connecting pre's to digi 003
theshizon
Thread Starter
#1
28th December 2008
Old 28th December 2008
  #1
Gear nut
 
theshizon's Avatar
 

Thread Starter
connecting pre's to digi 003

will going from 8 preamps (fully mic'd drum kit) into 1-4 xlr and 5-8 1/4 line inputs on the 003 be okay? will channels 5-8 (being line inputs and not xlr) have any significant impact on how it will sound?
#2
28th December 2008
Old 28th December 2008
  #2
Gear addict
 
Renegade Prod's Avatar
 

The XLR inputs will then be going through the 003 pres, using the DI;s 1-4 should bypass them
#3
28th December 2008
Old 28th December 2008
  #3
Gear addict
 
Hxd Ped's Avatar
 

The XLR inputs on the 003 are for it's own mic preamps. Do not plug your preamps into them.


The ¼ inch inputs for the 003's preamps (inputs 1-4) are unbalanced DI inputs for guitars and such. I do not believe you should plug your preamps into them. (I might be wrong, but I don't think so.)


Inputs 5-8 are for line level inputs, like the outputs of your preamps.


So (as far as I know) if you want to record eight mics into the 003, you must use it's four preamps. UNLESS you can convert at least four of your mic signals to digital, then you can use the ADAT inputs. You'll be limited to 44.1k or 48k sample rate if you do that, though.
#4
28th December 2008
Old 28th December 2008
  #4
Gear addict
 
Renegade Prod's Avatar
 

sounds right to me
theshizon
Thread Starter
#5
28th December 2008
Old 28th December 2008
  #5
Gear nut
 
theshizon's Avatar
 

Thread Starter
.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hxd Ped View Post
UNLESS you can convert at least four of your mic signals to digital, then you can use the ADAT inputs. You'll be limited to 44.1k or 48k sample rate if you do that, though.
thats what im trying to avoid, is shelling out $1-3K on a A/D converter
#6
28th December 2008
Old 28th December 2008
  #6
Gear addict
 
Renegade Prod's Avatar
 

If u go your pres via SPDIF do you have to covert before hand, or is there an ADC on the other side of the SPDIF
theshizon
Thread Starter
#7
28th December 2008
Old 28th December 2008
  #7
Gear nut
 
theshizon's Avatar
 

Thread Starter
i guess i should be more specific. it would be from 500 series pre's or rack pre's, im not using, say an octopre with a spdif or adat out. i've used an octopre and an onyx before and the results were questionable.
#8
28th December 2008
Old 28th December 2008
  #8
Gear nut
 
tracktension's Avatar
 

shell out $200.00 for the ada8000 , it works.
#9
28th December 2008
Old 28th December 2008
  #9
Lives for gear
If you go into the 1/4 inch inputs on channels 1-4, and push the DI buttons on the front panel, it's supposed to bypass the pres, but the gain knobs still work. I don't think it will change the sound between the 5-8 inputs, if you set the gain at unity.
#10
28th December 2008
Old 28th December 2008
  #10
Quote:
Originally Posted by Renegade Prod View Post
The XLR inputs will then be going through the 003 pres, using the DI;s 1-4 should bypass them
err, a DI signal generally requires a mic preamp to boost the signal from instrument level to line level. What you say here isn't true. As a gentle sidenote, if you're going to have a tag that reads "engineer" you should probably learn the difference between mic, line and DI levels, and what circuitry is involved with each of them. I'm sure you do know really..it's just misinformation like this can easily confuse.

I can't comment on the 003, but going into the LINE inputs on a 002 doesn't bypass the gain pots, so is unlikely to bypass the preamps themselves - probably just pads them to accept line level (not an uncommon tactic, I'm pretty certain someone who's a better electrical engineer than me has stated this is the case with the digi interfaces).

You don't NEED to buy a new converter - I certainly wouldn't think the ADA800 behringer is going to be an improvement on the 003. why not just try for yourself? compare the same signal going into channel 1 and channel 5. If you can't hear a difference - no need to worry, get on with recording drums! Short of overkilling the problem by buying a whole new converter you don't really need, there's not much of a problem.
#11
29th December 2008
Old 29th December 2008
  #11
Gear addict
 
Hxd Ped's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Renegade Prod View Post
If u go your pres via SPDIF do you have to covert before hand, or is there an ADC on the other side of the SPDIF
S/PDIF is digital. It does not have converters on it. S/PDIF on the 003 supports up to two channels up to 96k.
#12
29th December 2008
Old 29th December 2008
  #12
Lives for gear
 
Don S's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by chrysb93065 View Post
If you go into the 1/4 inch inputs on channels 1-4, and push the DI buttons on the front panel, it's supposed to bypass the pres, but the gain knobs still work. I don't think it will change the sound between the 5-8 inputs, if you set the gain at unity.
Psycho said it. Even though you CAN feed a line level in the DI input, it is unbalanced AND going through the preamp stage. Which results in very low headoom. You might be better off using the preamps on the 003 than feeding line level to inputs 1-4.
#13
30th December 2008
Old 30th December 2008
  #13
Gear nut
 

Go XLR into the 003 1-4 and set the Mic/Line switch to Line. I don't know if it goes "through" the pre, but this would be better than using the DI's.
#14
30th December 2008
Old 30th December 2008
  #14
Gear addict
 
Hxd Ped's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by danalog View Post
Go XLR into the 003 1-4 and set the Mic/Line switch to Line. I don't know if it goes "through" the pre, but this would be better than using the DI's.
There is no Mic/Line switch on the 003, only Mic/DI.

The 003 Rack+ has line level inputs on 1-4, but not on the XLR inputs, they're on the 1/4 inch inputs.

Last edited by Hxd Ped; 30th December 2008 at 09:29 AM.. Reason: addendum
#15
30th December 2008
Old 30th December 2008
  #15
Lives for gear
 
Iggy Poop's Avatar
 

I can't comment on the 003, but going into the LINE inputs on a 002 doesn't bypass the gain pots, so is unlikely to bypass the preamps themselves - probably just pads them to accept line level

So then if you are only recording one to four channels at a time are you better off using channels 5-6 instead of 1-4?
#16
31st December 2008
Old 31st December 2008
  #16
Gear nut
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hxd Ped View Post
There is no Mic/Line switch on the 003, only Mic/DI.

The 003 Rack+ has line level inputs on 1-4, but not on the XLR inputs, they're on the 1/4 inch inputs.

Bummer. My 002R has 4 Mic/Line switches. I wonder why they changed that.
#17
31st December 2008
Old 31st December 2008
  #17
Lives for gear
 
Don S's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by danalog View Post
Bummer. My 002R has 4 Mic/Line switches. I wonder why they changed that.
Apparently, even on the 002R, the "line level" inputs go through the pot and the preamp stage, resulting in decreased headroom compared to inputs 5-8. One of my buddies complains constantly about this "feature" from Digi.
#18
7th January 2009
Old 7th January 2009
  #18
Lives for gear
 
superwack's Avatar
How "bad" is the headroom?

Does anyone know how "bad" the decreased headroom is when using a mic pre/line input in to channels 1-4 of the 003R? In other words is it something that should be avoided at all costs or is it manageable with some diligence (correct source - maybe something w/o much transient info?). I ask because I have 5 outboard pres that I want to use...

Thanks
#19
7th January 2009
Old 7th January 2009
  #19
Gear addict
 

I have a Digi 003 and I am pretty sure the line imputs 5 - 8 do bypass the analog circuitry used by xlr inputs 1 - 4. That is one of the main points in having those 4 line imputs there in the first place, so that the 003 can be used with external preamps!

Simple solution is this...

Run your kick, snare, and two overheads through 4 of your external preamps and then into line imputs 5 - 8, the rest of your kit you can run through the xlr imputs 1 - 4. The preamps and A/D conversion on the 003 are much better than on the 002, people often forget that, they seem to think the 003 is just a 002 with a word clock and a second headphone out!

There is no reason why you can't get a great drum sound with the above method, and if you can't then your 003 is not to blame! Good luck! thumbsup
#20
9th January 2009
Old 9th January 2009
  #20
Lives for gear
 
superwack's Avatar
From the "Getting Started Guide"

from page 62
DI Inputs 1–4

The DI (“Direct Inject” or “Direct Interface”) Inputs are balanced connectors for guitars and other instrument level sources that support 1/4-inch TS connections. Operating levels for these inputs are fixed at +4dBu.
Gain is controlled by the corresponding Input Gain knob (located on the top panel of 003, and on the front panel of 003Rack). The source (Mic, Line, or DI) is chosen using the Mic/DI switch.

I've always been confused by the fact it says it has balanced TS connections (especially since it specifically suggests they can be used for "guitars" which are NOT balanced) but the technical specs on the digidesign site state that the LINE/DI ins are indeed "balanced 1/4" jacks." Also it is pretty dubious that they claim the MIC/DI switch can be used to select between three different input levels (line/mic/di) when it is only a two position switch!


On page 72-73 the GETTING STARTED guide goes step-by-step for connecting mixers and other "line level" devices. Clearly stating:


For line-level devices, the Input Gain knob
should be turned down all the way.

Then it goes on to say you should set your gear to optimal level then adjust the Input Gain knob. This pretty much proves the line level inputs go through the electronics/gain amps of the DI thus limiting the headroom of the device plugged in. Bummer

maybe Black Lion can add this to their mod list? thumbsup
#21
9th January 2009
Old 9th January 2009
  #21
Lives for gear
Not trying to go too far OT here, but........

There seems to be questions/complaints/concerns about this topic here daily.

I find it amusing that the new Digi 003+ has eight of these bothersome inputs. dfegad

What is so F'n hard about putting mic AND line inputs on a supposed "Professional" interface????

OK, feel free to move me to the moan zone.....


#22
9th January 2009
Old 9th January 2009
  #22
Lives for gear
 
ianbryn11's Avatar
 

i agree, you'd think that they would adapt their design.
#23
2nd April 2010
Old 2nd April 2010
  #23
Gear Head
 

i did the test

hello all,
i just tested to see how big of a difference there is between the input 1 set to di (with the gain all the way down) and "line input" #5 of a digi 003. i took a crappy casio's line out and recorded a tone through a stereo preamp(output'ed to both 1 and 5) so i simply switched a cable to get a comparison, and the #1 set to DI is ever so slightly "hotter" than the line in. It's a matter of a DB or two of headroom loss.

imho it's fine to use an external mic pre w/ DI 1-4 on a DIGI 003.
#24
2nd April 2010
Old 2nd April 2010
  #24
Lives for gear
 
tamasdragon's Avatar
 

This whole 1-4 inputs will ruin your signal is an urban legend. Connect any high-quality preamps to inputs 1-4 and it will still sound as your high quality preamp.

And of course, if you connect them to 1-4 line input, the four pres are still active, but as I said, you don't have to gain them if you use external pres, and they won't ruin your recordings.
#25
3rd April 2010
Old 3rd April 2010
  #25
Lives for gear
I agree with tamasdragon, and that the variance in signal level on channels 1-4 can be controlled with your preamps' output level. We use an RME OctamicD in to the adat port, and regularly record up to 16 channels simultaneously.
Thread Tools
Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Similar Threads
Thread
Thread Starter / Forum
Replies
barryjohns / So much gear, so little time!
42
theshizon / So much gear, so little time!
7
andybrannan / So much gear, so little time!
13
dragontiger / So much gear, so little time!
7
Baderup99 / So much gear, so little time!
6

Forum Jump
 
Register FAQ Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

SEO by vBSEO ©2011, Crawlability, Inc.