Blackface Bandmaster, Deluxe Reverb

[phaedrus]

Hi all,

I am looking at getting a blackface amplifier, and I fancy the AB763 circuit. As some of you may remember from earlier posts, I have had trouble with sympathetic resonances and rattles from tubes with COMBO amps, so I was looking to get a blackface head.

I really love the guitar tone of folks like Neil Young and Ryan Adams, and I have read that they both use the blackface Deluxe Reverb (I read also that Adams switched to Princeton Reverbs though). Since I would prefer to get a head rather than combo, it looks like a bandmaster blackface might be a good fit for me. I am curious if anyone knows what technical differences there are between the Deluxe reverb and the bandmaster. I know that both have the AB763 circuit, though many other blackfaces like the bassman and others don't use this circuit. Obviously I know one is a combo, and one is a head, and of course the deluxe is 22 watts and the bandmaster is 40 watts. So is it possible that these two items are otherwise the same in terms of basic wiring and electronics? Of course this leads to the question of how they compare in terms of sound. With a fender reverb unit, would a blackface bandmaster basically just be a head version of the deluxe? That would be awesome b/c the bandmasters are not very expensive. This combined with the fact that I want a head rather than a combo makes this a tempting proposition.
Thanks for the feedback!
P

[T9c]

Originally Posted by phaedrus

So is it possible that these two items are otherwise the same in terms of basic wiring and electronics? Of course this leads to the question of how they compare in terms of sound. With a fender reverb unit, would a blackface bandmaster basically just be a head version of the deluxe?

You can get some idea by looking at their schematics. DR Bandmaster.

Other than the power amp section using different tubes, the bandmaster uses a solid state rectifier, so (I say this with a grain of salt) generally will sound tighter/cleaner than an amp with a tube rectifier. The Bandmaster was supposed to be the guitar version of the Bassman back in the early '60's. Turned out rockers liked the Bassman more for guitar. But, I know more guitarist who prefer the DR over a Bassman. You can probably find a boteek amp company that builds replica DR in a head style.

[Philo]

Neil Young uses a TWEED Deluxe as his main amp, not a blackface.

The sounds are quite different....

Philo

[davet]

I have a 66 Blackface Bassman with the AB165 circuit that's used as a guitar amp. I like sound of it. Very loud for a small room, but if you get the thing up around 3, it really starts to growl. I also replaced the 4th 12AT7 with a 12AX7. That makes the normal channel a bit brighter sounding. I run the amp into a Marshal 4x12 cab. Nice setup for me, but YMMV.
DaveT

[jsaliba]

There are definately differences between these 2 amps. Different power tubes and tube vs. solid state rectifier as mentioned above. Maybe even other differences like different transformers?

If you're really worried about the cabinet vibrating, but you want to maintain the deluxe reverb sound, I believe you could run an external cabinet off of the Deluxe Reverb and disconnect the internal speaker. I've done this with my silverface twin before. You pretty much just use the combo as a head only.

I will say that the cabinet and speakers definately affect the sound. I tried my twin reverb through my marshall cab with V30s and I liked it much better through the stock cabinet with jensens. It just sounds like a fender that way.

Good luck in your search

[swafford]

As pointed out, Young uses a narrow panel Tweed Deluxe with servos to control the opposing inputs for clean or dirty sounds.

I've had Bassman's and I have a DR, but I don't find them to similar. If your set on a BF DR in a head package, I'd look seriously at Allen Amps Accomplice in a head. Dave Allen is serious about building amps that take the best of what Fender had to offer in the 60's and slightly re-engineering them. Nice guy, great builder and amp tech. The Accomplice has his 'raw' circuit that will let you dial in some Tweed tones - boosted midrange, more growl. Dave might also tell you which BF head circuit is most similar to a DR and if it can be modified to get closer to DR specs. He modified my '68 Bandmaster Reverb to be a bit more like a Super Reverb.

[Brent Hahn]

Stating the obvious here, but you can always use a Deluxe to drive an external cabinet.