Do you guys smash the vocals when mixing?

[mbradzick]

When mixing I usually smash the vocals with a comp with about 6:1 and a short attack and release time. Any other techniques? What settings are you using?

[river]

No. Music is supposed to have dynamics. I try not to hit vocals any harder than 4:1, moderate attack and release, although if I'm looking for an effect like a ton of upward compression to accentuate breathing, I'll set the threshold pretty low and adjust makeup gain accordingly.

[Mike Brown]

First of all... coach the singer to have the dynamics you want the song to have.... THEN:

I find the key to having the happy medium between compression & natural-ness ESPECIALLY IN THE DIGITAL DOMAIN is TWO compressors.

I usually rock 2 instances of RVox... both hitting about 3-3.5 dB of attenuation.

Then sometimes ill throw Maxim or some limiter after them.

Then (or before... depends on the vocal) a De-esser.

This combined with some volume automation (I usually try to do about half of the de-essing with the de-esser and half with volume automation... although recently i have been doing some with melodyne as well)... yields a very natural yet easy to mix vocal.

[ScumBum]

Yes ,

light compression 2:1 - 3 db

then 1176 time

12:1

Attack 6

Release 7

15 db reduction

Slam that vocal !

I do mainly rock , this wouldn't work for Mariah Carey

[dhiltonlittle]

i never smash the lead vocal. i'll throw a touch of compression on it for the color if that's what i'm going for. the rest is all riding the fader. an over compressed vocal and ruin a song in a heartbeat imo.

[John Suitcase]

Depends on the track, of course, but lately I've been using the Yohng W1 (clone of Waves L1) on vocals. I put an eq in ahead of it, and cut some of the highs, then use the W1 to crush it until it sits right. I sometimes use some compression during tracking, depending on the vocalist. That's more to get the loud parts in line with the quiet parts, and avoid any clipping, etc.

I have also done mixes where I cut every word (sometimes every syllable) and adjusted the volume of each one to flow properly. That can work great if you have the time.

[deeper]

For ROCK, yes indeed, I whip out the 1176 and smashy smashy! That's one of the things that makes it rock! I like to see how much squash I can get away with before it starts to suck, and then back off a little.

But this kind of behavior is uncalled for in, uhh, regular music. Seriously. I have ruined so many ballad vocals and country vocals by overcompressing them. Until I learned that you don't put jalopenos on a donut.

I've also discovered that the 1176 is more forgiving if I overcompress a little, whereas my opto compressors aren't so forgiving. With opto, a tad too much compression, and "Pffft! She was gone!" as they used to sing on "Hee-Haw".

[mbradzick]

Originally Posted by John Suitcase

Depends on the track, of course, but lately I've been using the Yohng W1 (clone of Waves L1) on vocals. I put an eq in ahead of it, and cut some of the highs, then use the W1 to crush it until it sits right. I sometimes use some compression during tracking, depending on the vocalist. That's more to get the loud parts in line with the quiet parts, and avoid any clipping, etc.

I have also done mixes where I cut every word (sometimes every syllable) and adjusted the volume of each one to flow properly. That can work great if you have the time.

Thanks guys, some great advice here. Keep em coming!

[Alxi]

For the last fiew mixes (hiphop ) i did it was something like

Comp

ratio 4:1 - 6:1
attack 20-50 ms
release 120-300 ms

GR between 4 and 6

Fallow by a limiter with Gr between 2 and 6

( Sonnox Dynamics works great for those 2 step )

EQ
De-Esser
Saturation

And i automation the vocals into the comp wich is set on the Vox Buss

I rarely go above an overal of 10db GR on the vox but if i have to i will do it. Depends on the music and in what condition it was sent to me.

[picksail]

Sometimes, let's say it's a really dynamic rock vocal within a dense mix.

I like serial compression on the vocals. A little bit of a few different compressors in succession can be really cool.

If I rely solely upon plug-ins I would start with the Massenburg 3 band EQ.

Followed by a UAD 1176 at say, 8-12:1 fast attack, medium/fast release, 3-6 db of reduction.
If I'm feeling really adventurous I'll go with "all button in".

Follow that with a UAD LA2A with maybe 3-6 db of reduction.

Then maybe the Eventide Omnipressor because it is just really sick. It won't let go of the vocal.

Send that to a gnarly Waves L1 to handle the peaks.

Then I get busy riding the vocal so that it sits perfectly in the mix.
I begin riding the lead vocal with the double/BVs muted. I then ride the double followed by the 'doubled sides"(stereo doubles sung with less inflections/no hard consonants).
After the lead is sitting nicely only then do I ride the BVs in.
Of course, it depends. Nothing is as simple as a templated track. They all differ.

Sometimes I may need to automate a 1-band EQ to control the envelope of the the vocal inflection.

Just a generalization. Hard to really know until you actually pull up the vocal.

[Makinithappen]

+1 for multiple stages of compression.

I do about -3db reduction on a MC77 on the way in, and then come mix time, usually a few more stacked up.


Not hitting any of them hard.

[mbradzick]

Originally Posted by picksail

Sometimes, let's say it's a really dynamic rock vocal within a dense mix.

I like serial compression on the vocals. A little bit of a few compressors in succession can be really cool.

If I rely solely upon plug-ins I would start with the Massenburg 3 band EQ.

Followed by a UAD 1176 at say, 8-12:1 fast attack, medium release, 3-6 db of reduction.
If I'm feeling really adventurous I 'll go with "all button in".

Follow that with a UAD LA2A with maybe 3-6 db of reduction.

Then maybe the Eventide Omnipressor because it is just really sick. It won't let go of the vocal.

Send that to a gnarly Waves L1 to handle the peaks.

Then I get busy riding the vocal so that it sits perfectly in the mix.

Sometimes I may need to automate a 1-band EQ to control the envelope of the the vocal inflection.

Just a generalization. Hard to really know until you actually pull up the vocal.

Thanks Stu...I had no idea so much went into making a vocal track sit! I'm gonna rethink my approach and experiment more.

[MarkRB]

Split your vocal up into sections and spread them over a few tracks.
i.e. Quiet verse. Verse. Chorus. Bridge. etc etc.
That way you can just put your faders where they are needed section by section before you need to rely on compression or automation to "flatten" the vocals out.
It makes life easier for me..............then buss the lot through another channel and squash the hell out of it... ehe!

Really though, I find little and often to be more effective and nicer sounding than compression that works all the time. Like a really low ratio and moderate attack/release times followed by something a little more aggressive to catch the stuff that still pokes out.

[picksail]

Originally Posted by Michael Zick

Thanks Stu...I had no idea so much went into making a vocal track sit! I'm gonna rethink my approach and experiment more.

You got it Michael!

I just re-edited some of the "automation tips" to reflect my typical approach.
Of course another generalization. Haha!!

[redddog]

This is great info.

How about for a Jeff Tweedy/Wilco type sound.

The alt country, acoustic folk rock stuff?

[AnthonyRochester]

when you are doing 2 stage compression, there are good reasons why its better to use a limiter before the compressor. Use the limiter first to catch the biggest peaks so that the compressor doesn't have to bear the full brunt of them. Set the thresholds so that the compressor will still do its gain reduction earlier than the limiter.

[Sunim Koria]

I only compress a vocal as much as it asks for. Anywhere from nothing at all to anything up to 30dB+, regardless of genre.

SK

[Vum]

I've found that my rap clients are pretty happy with heavy amounts of GR on their vocal mixes for the verse. However this is mostly true to the more commercial acts and zeitgeists I work with - you can get a very lovely vocal mix with only the vocal stacks heavily compressed.

For rock I usually just do what it takes to have the lyrics intelligible.

[liquidtension47]

Originally Posted by Sunim Koria

I only compress a vocal as much as it asks for. Anywhere from nothing at all to anything up to 30dB+, regardless of genre.

SK

you beat me to it.

it really depends on what your doing. too often i hear smashed vocals when the tune doesnt call for it.

[joeq]

parallel compression works for me a lot of times

one vox lightly compressed and one smashed

it's amazing how little of the smashed vocal you need to add to get the vocals to cut.

[theblue1]

Originally Posted by Michael Zick

When mixing I usually smash the vocals with a comp with about 6:1 and a short attack and release time. Any other techniques? What settings are you using?

I don't do anything automatically every time. I try to do the right thing for each different circumstance.

[bitman]

I smash them pretty good with a UAD LA-2A.

[six_wax]

Originally Posted by Michael Zick

Thanks Stu...I had no idea so much went into making a vocal track sit!

That's the gig.

[ScumBum]

smash

[Vum]

HULK SMASH!!!!



It really matters which compressor you use as well...

[tunasafedolphin]

I rarely reply to threads like this, not sure why.

Depending, I recommend you give a shot at combining an 1176 w/ a Distressor.

A good starting spot would be the 1176 at 12:1 fast/fast, just knocking off 3-4db on the loudest peaks, never more. Next, throw the Distressor behind that at 2:1 or 3:1, slow attack/ "fastish" release and knock it down... Can take some tweaking to keep it from pumping in an odd way, but sounds really good when it works.

-C

[drBill]

Smash? No. Compress lightly? Yes. I prefer automation to make the vocals sit in the mix. I also prefer that a focal point like a lead vocal not sit *perfectly* in the same spot thruout the mix. Just my personal preference though....

[six_wax]

If you're going to smash it, divy the work up between 2 comps. LA2-1176 is a classic, and guys have been known to daisy chain 1176s. I adore the CL1B->MC77 combo.

As an aside, I sense that the "tone stacking" of comps makes the needle-burying feel less necessary, though many don't know the difference... But in any event, 2 comps working lightly will almost always sound better than 1 comp smashing the crap out of something. (No, Distressors are not an exception, imo.)

Or just be a man & ride a freakin' fader.

[six_wax]

Originally Posted by Vum

HULK SMASH!!!!

It really matters which compressor you use as well...

I was having a *really good day* right up to the point where you subjected me to that photo, too...

[thedoner]

Originally Posted by Sunim Koria

I only compress a vocal as much as it asks for. Anywhere from nothing at all to anything up to 30dB+, regardless of genre.

SK

+1
Well said