Mackie HR824s - anyway to make 'em work?

[violindave]

Used 'em awhile ago, didn't like 'em, couldn't get my mixes to translate well.

Have been using Note Perfect Alpha's from down under, which I really like.

Should I toss the Mackie's [sell 'em - they don't get too much these days used] or is there a useful way to use them in addition

It seems folks either love 'em or hate 'em. Is it the style of music?

[Ethan Winer]

Originally Posted by violindave

Is it the style of music?

I think it's mostly the room they're played in. Mackie 824s can put out a huge amount of bass down to below 40 Hz. So in most rooms, with no bass traps, the low end can seem muddy, boomy, and out of control. But the speakers themselves are quite flat and have little ringing and very low distortion. That's my take anyway.

--Ethan

[Steffmo]

Originally Posted by Ethan Winer

I think it's mostly the room they're played in. Mackie 824s can put out a huge amount of bass down to below 40 Hz. So in most rooms, with no bass traps, the low end can seem muddy, boomy, and out of control. But the speakers themselves are quite flat and have little ringing and very low distortion. That's my take anyway.

--Ethan

Spoken like a true bass trap designer!!!!!

I'm sorry...I couldn't resist it. He's probably right...btw.

[electropoet]

no...not the style of music. its the room. i completely agree with ethan. these speakers can easily yield a good mix if your room is treated and you get to know the speakers. for the money they are good. are there other better models...yes...for more money...8040's would be nice...dynaudio's would be nice...certainly a lot of alternatives...but really they're just different flavors...you can mix on shit if you know how they will translate...i meet more and more people who really don't care about having the most expensive shit...they are more practical and use what works and what they know...and interestingly are far more productive...i'm personally glad i'm moving away from GAS. so...in short...if your mixes suck...its not the speakers...it's either you, or the room.

[Dean Roddey]

I have the mkIIs. If the room is correctly treated, the bass response is not a problem. They are larger than the first gen ones and put out more bass, so that might be a consideration, I dunno.

I think that primarily their issues is that they are a bit scooped out in the lower mids. So you can tend to do mixes that are a little bit bloated if you aren't careful. Best to check them on other sources. I have a set of phones I used as a sanity check, which are kind of the other way around, so a mix that sounds good on both is probably about right, and I have some small computer speakers to check on as well, which is always good.

[BOWIE]

Just keep them away from the walls. There's a lot of low end build up behind these things. I think it's the passive radiator.

[river]

My control room is small and treated, I'm mindful of listening levels when mixing, but since putting up traps and diffusers, mixes translate extremely well. I'm using original 824's.

[Brad McGowan]

You need to play with the switches on the back. I have a pair that I use at home for listening to CD's and playing movies. I have them in a fairly large room with them spaced a couple feet from the wall. I find they sound more natural with the switches set to "quarter space" and "47Hz". than they do at full space and 37Hz.

Brad

[Terry McInturff]

Ive always wondered if there was something wrong with my pair. They are the originals, and they are about 7 years old. I bought them new.

I've used them in 3 different control rooms...none perfect...but there has been consistently weak lows out of them. Not what I expected. I've not heard them ever deliver strong lows.

Also, I find myself aiming them somewhat away from directly at me...the upper mids seem a bit harsh.

Overall, they seem fairly brite with not much low end.

Could one of them have been miswired out of phase at the factory???????????????? They do not sound phasey.

[BOWIE]

Originally Posted by Terry McInturff

Ive always wondered if there was something wrong with my pair. They are the originals, and they are about 7 years old. I bought them new.

I've used them in 3 different control rooms...none perfect...but there has been consistently weak lows out of them. Not what I expected. I've not heard them ever deliver strong lows.

Also, I find myself aiming them somewhat away from directly at me...the upper mids seem a bit harsh.

Overall, they seem fairly brite with not much low end.

Could one of them have been miswired out of phase at the factory???????????????? They do not sound phasey.

That's strange... I've had almost the opposite problem. The lows are powerful and I'm always struggling to get them under control.
They are not woofy or boomy though. Just deep and pounding.

[luctellier]

I started to love my HR824 the day my room has been treated. Since then I have no problem with them and they translate really well.

[Terry McInturff]

"Deep and pounding" low end is exactly what Ive NEVER been able to get thru mine. All of the components work, etc!!!

I sit about 4 feet in front of them. The lows never kick me in the chest, ever. Something must be wrong. I wonder how I can discover what is wrong in order to fix it? Ive never made sure that the woofers are firing in the same direction, might be a good place to start!

[Mike Brown]

Originally Posted by Terry McInturff

"Deep and pounding" low end is exactly what Ive NEVER been able to get thru mine. All of the components work, etc!!!

I sit about 4 feet in front of them. The lows never kick me in the chest, ever. Something must be wrong. I wonder how I can discover what is wrong in order to fix it? Ive never made sure that the woofers are firing in the same direction, might be a good place to start!

Head on over to the acoustic forum here and start treating your room professionally for cheap.

Also check out Ethan's posts.

These speakers do have impressive low end and translate very well. Very nice product.

[Ethan Winer]

Originally Posted by Terry McInturff

there has been consistently weak lows out of them. Not what I expected. I've not heard them ever deliver strong lows.

Weak bass is probably the most common room acoustics problem. This is usually caused by one or more deep nulls somewhere between 80 and 200 Hz, often due to reflections off the rear wall behind you.

The graph below shows the LF response (with original Mackie 824s BTW) in a typical 16 by 10 foot room. Note the huge nulls near 80, 120, and 155 Hz. This is why mixes can sound good in a home studio control room, but boomy and bassy elsewhere.

--Ethan

[Protools Guy]

I've gotten used to my 824's and have actually grown quite fond of them.

[Terry McInturff]

Originally Posted by Ethan Winer

Weak bass is probably the most common room acoustics problem. This is usually caused by one or more deep nulls somewhere between 80 and 200 Hz, often due to reflections off the rear wall behind you.

The graph below shows the LF response (with original Mackie 824s BTW) in a typical 16 by 10 foot room. Note the huge nulls near 80, 120, and 155 Hz. This is why mixes can sound good in a home studio control room, but boomy and bassy elsewhere.

--Ethan

Ethan,

I cannot thank you enough for the way that you share your knowledge with all of us.

As usual, you are spot-on, and due to your insights I have begun to treat my room properly...and can already hear the improvement.

By the way, I'm an old friend of the outrageously talented Wes Lachot...I am so proud of him and his career. Many congratulations on your own, my friend!

[warhead]

I have only just "upgraded" from my USA made HR824's to the ADAM P33A pair. I gotta say it wasn't a "no brainer" to move away from them, I learned them well and my mixes translated fine.

So I have a pair of USA made HR824 in the classifieds *hint hint*

but it took a $3500 pair of speakers to move me away from them if that means anything to you.

Overall I think they are a good speaker priced low enough that they are being used in a lot of bad environments.

War

[atropos]

Originally Posted by warhead

Overall I think they are a good speaker priced low enough that they are being used in a lot of bad environments.

Being an 824 owner, and having just built a significant amount of bass traps, I have to say +1 to this.

Believe everything you've read about traps... the difference they make is incredible.

[Dean Roddey]

If you want to see an example of how far you may have to go in a small room to get a flat response, here's mine:

http://www.gearslutz.com/board/attac...s-leftview.jpg

http://www.gearslutz.com/board/attac...-rightview.jpg

That's 10" deep behind the monitors. 16" above my head. 10" in the floor corners. A full unopened box is on the floor behind the speakers. 6" traps in the ceiling corners, with some spare stuff thrown in behind them. 4" ones on the walls for the first reflections. And 8" in the corners behind the speakers.

With a LOT of experimentation trying different variations and placements (of the deskt and monitors as much as the traps), I've gotten this room to within a couple dB of flat except for one cancellation around 65Hz, which is fairly narrow. That one still bugs me but it's livable.

It looks bad, but I'm the only one who ever sees it, so functionality is far more important than looks. And it's very nice to be able to mix and know that the bass I'm hearing is really what's there and to be able to do volume automation and know I'm not just automating my room.

[Captain Proton]

Best thing I did with my HR824's was to sell them and get a set of NS10M's with a bass bin just touching the bottom end.

HR824's are a nightmare to mix on, flabby bass which seems to make all bass notes sound the same.

They only sounded good when I used them outside? I did have a treated room but it was probably too small for the Mackies.

[Dean Roddey]

The bass is not flabby at all in my room. I can hear every note very clearly and with a very distinct frequency. It might not be as tight as some other speakers of course. But it certainly isn't flabby, at least in my system and with the mkII's which may have some advancements in design over the originals.

[Captain Proton]

I think maybe they were way too big for the room I had.