Question about Saturation Plugins

[DP40oz]

This may be a very stupid question. I use mostly the waves SSL stuff and their Vintage series (which are incredible sounding plugs). Ive been reading alot of great stuff about the URS Saturation plugin. My question is if im already using plugins made to sound like SSL and Neve would it make any sense to then add a Saturation plugin thats set to an SSL or Neve saturation setting like the URS plug. Am i getting a similiar effect just by using these plugins?

[Kiwiburger]

[rant]Frankly, this overt bastardisation of (previously) respectable brand names really annoys me.

DSP is about mathematical algorithmns - and generally the same basic models are available to plugin designers. Some smart accountants have figured out that if they attach famous 'brand names' to some DSP that loosely attempts to match some sonic characteristic, then we are supposed to flock like Lemmings to buy it.[/rant]

I have dozens if not hundreds of plugins that offer slighty different saturation effects. They all sound different - which means they will all suck or shine on different sources on different days. It's worth having as many options available.

Personally - I prefer some of my saturation plugins that don't attempt to model anything in particular, but just give sliders for the individual harmonics. If some of these happen to be freeware, it doesn't worry me in the slightest. Maths is maths, and if I prefer the sound, I prefer the sound.

To my way of thinking, having a bunch of plugins to audition is not vastly different from the old school guys who would have boxes of different tubes or transformers or different brands/speeds of tape to get just the right effect they want.

[surflounge]

well said
enough is enough, unless a client wants the "name brand"
I send those clients down the beach so someone else can put their face on a dart board. Otherwise, use whatever you have to get the sound you want.

[DP40oz]

Wow i didnt mean to get anyone all worked up. Now lets just say I use Plugin A that is modled after a piece of outboard gear. Should i still use a saturation plugin after it to get the desired outboard gear kind of effect or does the plugin itself have that saturation effect in it already.

[ckreon]

Originally Posted by DP40oz

Wow i didnt mean to get anyone all worked up. Now lets just say I use Plugin A that is modled after a piece of outboard gear. Should i still use a saturation plugin after it to get the desired outboard gear kind of effect or does the plugin itself have that saturation effect in it already.

Why don't you use your ears to see if you think it needs more "saturation."

Why are you asking us if you should put one plug-in after another? I don't know about the others on here, but I have no idea what you're going for so my answer would hardly apply to your situation.

If it sounds good already, you don't need it. If you're missing something, its worth a shot.

[DP40oz]

Im trying to use my ears but i don't own the plugin, that is why i am asking the question. My question may have been phrased wrong. Im not asking for a formula im asking if people have found that even with UAD stuff, Waves vintage series, Waves SSL etc.. if they find the saturation plugins still worthwhile. If i just used "my" ears i woulda been stuck having terrible sounding mixes years ago. Thats why i ask lots of questions on this forum. Trying to learn the most i can and get some insight as to what other people may have found.

[ckreon]

Originally Posted by DP40oz

Im trying to use my ears but i don't own the plugin, that is why i am asking the question. My question may have been phrased wrong. Im not asking for a formula im asking if people have found that even with UAD stuff, Waves vintage series, Waves SSL etc.. if they find the saturation plugins still worthwhile. If i just used "my" ears i woulda been stuck having terrible sounding mixes years ago. Thats why i ask lots of questions on this forum. Trying to learn the most i can and get some insight as to what other people may have found.

Sorry if I came across as harsh - and I can understand what you're saying here, but still - I recommend that you try stuff and see if you like it.

I can say I like the Massey TapeHead quite a bit, and I'll use it on all sorts of things, but its not to get more "SSL" or anything like that. I'll use it before, or after different emulating plugins, depending.

So, if I understand what you're asking, yes, saturation plugins are very worthwhile.

[edwardsean]

To DP40,

I think I understand your question perfectly and it's totally legitimate. You're concern isn't really about how to get that SSL, Neve, API, etc. sound. Unfortunately your question comes at a time when everyone and their brother is either trying to get that sound or trying to make money off of those who are. You're question, I think, has more to do with the "Saturation" part than the emulation part, right? In other words you're not looking to get a URS CSP, or the new TRacks or another SSL/ Neve emulation but the URS Sat plug.

The answer is fairly straight forward. There are only two reasons why you would get the URS Saturation plug after the Waves plugs you have.

1) You want a different take on SSL and Neve from URS. Every company has their own angle at which they're looking at the classics. Every company has a slightly different interpretation of what makes them great. So what you're most honestly getting is not an SSL, Neve, or API sound in the end. You're getting a Waves, UAD, URS, etc. sound. So if you want to explore the URS sound as different from Waves the Sat. plug is a good a place as any to start. You will definitely find it another useful flavor to have.

2) You want more of what classic components do to sound: i.e. saturation. Without getting into the whole physics of the thing, saturation adds that warm, thick, pleasing harmonic distortion to sound. Each of the hardware units did it in their own way. The Waves stuff is attempting to recreate that as accurately as possible but it's not trying to give you more of it than what was there. You just get that "analog" switch. The URS plug allows you to layer it on as heavy as you want it. Depending upon what you're doing you may not want any more than you've already got. Personally, I love the URS CSP. It's far more subtle, but I don't want or need anymore. But, you may.

Hope that helps.

[jdtrbn]

Originally Posted by DP40oz

My question is if im already using plugins made to sound like SSL and Neve would it make any sense to then add a Saturation plugin thats set to an SSL or Neve saturation setting like the URS plug. Am i getting a similiar effect just by using these plugins?

In general, it depends on the plugin. Some add saturation and some don't. The Waves stuff and at least some of the UAD stuff adds some harmonics. But the high-end analog stuff was very clean to begin with, so you may well want to saturate your tracks a bit more. For example, you may want some extra saturation to your drums but can have clean vocals. I think it makes a lot of sense.

[DP40oz]

Originally Posted by edwardsean

You want more of what classic components do to sound: i.e. saturation. Without getting into the whole physics of the thing, saturation adds that warm, thick, pleasing harmonic distortion to sound. Each of the hardware units did it in their own way. The Waves stuff is attempting to recreate that as accurately as possible but it's not trying to give you more of it than what was there. You just get that "analog" switch. The URS plug allows you to layer it on as heavy as you want it. Depending upon what you're doing you may not want any more than you've already got. Personally, I love the URS CSP. It's far more subtle, but I don't want or need anymore. But, you may.

Hope that helps.

Thank you! That was exactly the answer i was looking for.

[jbjoubaud]

I don't know the waves ssl and vintage but I do own the api ones and I know I couldn't get from them what the psp vintagewarmer2 delivers.
I can also tell you that the PSP Vintage Warmer 2 is good for very few kinds of musics. If you're mixing classical or whatever that has dynamics and depth then forget it.

[stryker]

the cool thing is you get a 10 day free trial. Im demoing the saturation plug right now. I have 5 days left. My take so far is subtle but useful.

[nickynicknick]

Originally Posted by stryker

the cool thing is you get a 10 day free trial. Im demoing the saturation plug right now. I have 5 days left. My take so far is subtle but useful.

yes you should definitely demo it for 10 days...I found that what I tended a lot towards the 15 ips setting...it has a nice way of limiting....I record through API so I didn't want much of that...Also the detroit setting I liked and the tube 1951 was pretty cool (easy with that one)...to me this plug is way more about other things than SSL or API...those two elements I find boring in this plug....something else very useful I found...the motor city eq plug Fantastic for additive eq and the API graphic eq for subtractive...just go demo it, then you'll know if it's just more of the same for you.

Nick

[Mr.HOLMES]

Originally Posted by jdtrbn

In general, it depends on the plugin. Some add saturation and some don't. The Waves stuff and at least some of the UAD stuff adds some harmonics. But the high-end analog stuff was very clean to begin with, so you may well want to saturate your tracks a bit more. For example, you may want some extra saturation to your drums but can have clean vocals. I think it makes a lot of sense.

All the analogue stuff never was designed for saturation.
Later engineers found out that you can do it as an effect.

For my ears the best Plug In with nice H2 and a bit H3 is the UAD Maximizer.
And the Messey Tape-Head thing.

But if you want for real the sound of a classic there is no other way as to buy this unit.

my 2 cents.

[AcoosticZoo]

Hi,

I've just tested Saturation (URS), Massey Tape Head, VariSaturator (voxengo), Ozone3 (tape, tube, retro) and trying see what this "magic saturation elixir" was all about. I was clearly surprise at the results that I discovered. I'm not saying that Saturation Plugins are bad, I can see it does wonders for Synths and Electric Guitars etc.

After testing these plugins I satisfied that:
IMO Sat plugins isn't responsible for the "magic" in pro mixes. It's the talent behind the mixing desk the accounts for 95% of the sound. Smoothness, Fatness and Warmth comes from EQing ie. balancing the timbre of instruments.

I'm guessing people turn to these Saturation plugins hoping for warmth that they hear in Proffesional Mixes. Warmth comes from the way the mix engineer sculpts and balances the sounds together. Adding artificial saturation harmonics tends to blur the image more than then Using Eq's. If you want something to be brighter, just Eq it brighter.

Btw, I love to use the Cranesong HEDD, and this is really an exceptional exceptional EXCEPTIONAL sounding tape/tube emulation and beats any of the previously mentioned plugins in my post.

Who agrees?

Josef Horhay
Producer / Mixer

[detritusdave]

The SPL twintube is also worth trying out. The separate harmonics control is very useful.